Not good in Coral Gables if your a fan of "da U". I wonder if Jim Larranega is regretting the move now.
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Not good in Coral Gables if your a fan of "da U". I wonder if Jim Larranega is regretting the move now.
Yeah, this one promises to be a category 5
No excuses for it. The only real arrests we had in the news the past few years were Robert Marve breaking a side-view mirror, and Ramon Buchanan getting arrested for drunk in public--which compared to some other schools' recent arrest records is basically nothing. I honestly didn't know about all of this going on behind the scenes...if true. I don't think a lot of people did, because this conman making the allegations was probably really good at hiding it and paying folks hush money to keep quiet. I would hate it of course as a fan if our program got nailed going forward, considering about 95'ish % of the folks are gone from the program (players/staff-wise), but the NCAA has to punish someone. I honestly wish it was the actual folks who did these things (allegedly), but it's folks like Tyrone Moss and other ex-players and staff that get off scott free.
One thing I hope everyone keeps in mind--this stuff has yet to be proven, and all the allegations are being made by a convicted felon/ponzi schemer. This guy was smart enough to run this scheme for 10 years or so, and to hide it as much as he could...meaning falsifying records, aka--keeping two sets of books. Some of these records could be falsified, and some of these pictures could very well be him walking up to a random player/coach and asking for a picture and them obliging. Dumb of them to oblige, but hey--I've got pictures of me with former UM players/coaches that I've bumped into at ballgames...but that doesn't mean I've given them money or we're tight or anything. There's also a signed Jon Beason picture that Shapiro has, with a message of "To Lil Luke, thanks for all the love"--and then below that is Beason's signature. I'd be interested to know if Shapiro added that to the picture later himself...entirely possible. All that is me playing devil's advocate on this stuff though, trying to make sense of it.
That being said--at the end of the day, the NCAA has to tie together the trail and get corroborating evidence. Then they can take action. Plus, there's a lot of this stuff that is past the 4 year statute of limitations and they cannot punish the program by rule. The only exception is if they find out that the rules were broken by the program willfully and complicitly, then everything's fair game.
It indeed doesn't look good. All I can do as a fan is wait and hope.
As much stuff as has went on at UT the past couple of years, I know that feeling. Some of that stuff could be falsified, no doubt about it. The photos of him with Shala even make it look bad since it is someone of authority although she may have not known what was going on within the department. I'm wondering what the folks at Mizzou are thinking about Haith right now too.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
True. Also--don't think that these kids in the past few years, being UM players, couldn't get into nightclubs/strip clubs on their own, and were just there...and then this dude just walked up to them as a big fan and wanted a picture...and is now trying to take things 10 steps further when these folks he thought he was "tight" with wouldn't help him out.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1inStripes
Al Golden said something really good in an interview today, so good, I'll quote the article I'm pulling it from directly:
Quote:
Golden said if any student-athletes did take improper benefits that "I would hope we would learn from them. We're in an educational setting, and it's no different than if a student makes a mistake on campus. We just don't toss them out, turn our back on them. We try to educate them. And they're all at an age right now (where) certainly if they were exposed to Mr. Shapiro clearly we have to make sure we prevent that from going forward. So how do you do that? Well, you do that by getting to the facts, the truth. How did this guy, if he did, get around our players like that? Me as a head coach, I want to know. And I know our assistant coaches want to know because we want to make sure it never happens again. It shouldn't happen."
Regardless of what happens, the guy in charge of the football team NOW wants to make sure this stuff doesn't happen ever again at UM, and he wants the truth about what happened so the program can face the music and move forward. In the face of all the allegations, that's comforting to me. I'd also say Jim Larranaga is the same way as far as any allegations against the basketball team goes as well.Quote:
"We're just trying to move forward," Golden said. "Whatever the number is being interviewed right now, being named, that makes up less than 10 percent of our team. It's really important to understand that we have a lot of guys in that locker room that do things the right way, that come from great families and have made good decisions and that want to improve today and get better. We have to manage to the team and not just to guys who, if they did make a mistake ... we don't want to just manage to them."
He added that "This is a very complicated issue, obviously, because of the source and allegations."
* Asked how hard it is to coach in these circumstances, Golden said, "I'm not going to say it's not difficult, but I'm standing here in front of (the media) because I want to make sure we get it right, make sure as quickly as we can get to the bottom of whatever happened, then we can move forward. I wasn't here when it happened. For me and my staff and the student-athletes, we're trying to get to the bottom of it so we can move forward. The only way you do that is to cooperate with the NCAA and get the truth."
I would say so. I think UM hired two quality individuals in Golden and Larranaga. Larranaga does love a challenge and truly I dont think he second guesses his choice as long as the university will stand behind him and give him the time. Its just going to take him longer than expected now to improve the team more than likely.
Yeah. Another bright side of this as a fan though is that I could care less if they strip us of any wins in the last 4-6 seasons...because that's about as far back as they can go, from what I can tell. Strip all the wins you want...we sucked pretty bad all those years anyways. It was always a bunch of talented guys who couldn't show out on the field due to their own lack of work ethic, and b/c the coaches sucked at motivating and guiding them.
The big hurt will be if/when we get schollies taken away. That's the key to Golden/Larranaga being able to gain some momentum and build a solid squad in both sports. Any bowl or tv bans will hurt not only recruiting, but Miami's bottom line which as a private school is always a concern.
That's not playing devil's advocate. Wasn't this guy leading them out of the tunnels, had a blow-up in the press-box and even had a part of campus named after him at one time? If any of those are true, let alone all, kind of throws out the idea he's just a fan with some pics that's conjured up this whole thing to get attention or what have you.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
I personally am rooting for the death penalty. Blow the thing up, it's the only way any major changes will happen; it's past time one of the big boys got a death sentence. FWIW, I don't hate Miami; I feel USC and OSU should have been nailed too.
If you go that route, then so should Florida, FSU, UT, South Carolina. Need I say more? I am more inclined to believe the way Cane does. Most all of the affected ones are gone now. Put them on a couple of years probation and no bowl appearences during that time. That will straighten it out some. The death sentence is too much in this case because the affected people are gone.
Two wrongs do not make a right. I think all should be hammered but, they wont; it's a political money operation that leaves ABC, FOX, NBC, etc more powerful than the NCAA. When things slow down (if that ever happens), I'm going to do a study on why this sport is so popular. It blows me away, millions of people are being played as puppets and everybody loves it.Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialdawg
This case is pretty big, I don't think they should get anything less than what PV said, with that many players plus coaches? And already several players have confirmed this, it's been an investigation going on since last year, I honestly think about everything he has said has been true. It's not just football either, he essentially paid for a basketball recruit too. The guy was paying for rooms and hookers for the players and even an abortion for a girl that one knocked up, it goes beyond what most of "well everyone is doing this" and buying a new car like SMU's players. Not to mention "bounties" on other players. There's no really downplaying this, this is HUGE and probation is a slap on the wrist for what's been going on, if this isn't a case for a death sentence, what is?!
Florida, FSU, UT (have only had major sanctions issued once and that was over a phone card scam in the 80's), and South Carolina have never been involved in anything this bad. These punishments aren't mean to punish the ones that are gone or the ones that are there. It's meant to punish the insitutions for letting it happen. I'm not arguing for or against, just your reasoning is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialdawg
The death sentence will never be used again to a major program. Period.
Per the NCAA, yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1inStripes
1) He never led them out of the tunnel. There's footage of him sneaking up to the tunnel wearing an Antrel Rolle jersey that's been on loop on ESPN everytime this story comes up b/c that's the only video footage they have of him. Next time they have him on ESPN--pay special attention to the next part of the footage--the security guards chasing him back over to the sidelines while he celebrates getting on the field. The only reason why he was close enough to sneak on was via his sideline pass...which with the amount of money he had, was easy to procure.Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
2) His blowup in the press box happened b/c he got drunk in the skybox he bought (and didn't fully pay for, which was eventually taken away by the University) and broke into the press box to talk stuff to the Athletic Dept brass due to the arse-whooping we took from UVA to close the Orange Bowl.
I've actually talked to a few folks from Miami Beach who knew him, one who even went to HS with him. He's described by those who know him as a guy with little-man syndrome who was extremely selfish, and anytime he did something wrong, it was someone else's fault. One story told by those folks who knew him was that he would find himself at these clubs and parties with players b/c he would hang close to the sideline and listen in and find out where the players were talking about going after the game...and he would make sure he showed up and bought a VIP spot with his money. Then, he would seek out players and take pics with them, try to get in tight w/them. It's not like he herded all players to the clubs and paid for all their drinks/food all the time...which is what he'd have everyone believe. Not saying there weren't players that bought in and decided "what the hell, I'll never get caught", but a lot of this has 3 pieces of evidence: photos that could be taken out of context, credit card statements (which doesn't prove the players were there and that he paid for them), and a felon's word.
I'm not dumb enough to say that there weren't any UM players that had anything to do with this guy, as I think that Vince Wilfork is guilty as sin in all of this if all the allegations with him are eventually proven true, but I think at the end of the day--the NCAA won't be able to tie at least half of this to any players within the last 4 years...which would be the statute of limitations for NCAA violations and following sanctions. I'm also sure Tyrone Moss took money as he said so himself, and it wouldn't surprise me if Frank Gore took $1,000 from this guy to help take care of his baby.
Believe what you will, all I know is that this guy is scum, and anyone who had dealings with him while knowing what he was all about, deserve to be punished as severely as possible.
I will say that I think Al Golden and Jim Larranagga will not allow this type of stuff to go on...and from what is being said, it looks as though Randy Shannon tried to clean some of it up himself...but EVEN if you want to look at the wildest conspiracy theories through Green and Orange glasses, the most damning information out there is the fact that he's say "I did XXXX, I paid for XXXX, and XXXX knew about it"...and then the Yahoo! reporter goes to the former players and you have some who say "yeah, he did XXXX, paid for XXXX, and XXXX knew about it"
you have a guy who is admitting he gave extra illegal benefits to players, and you have players who are admitting he gave extra benefits to them...and THEN you have some receipts to back it up?!? without the receipts it's still a key piece of evidence and the testimony of those involved are usually the only thing the NCAA has to work with...but since you have players corroborating his story, don't you feel it gives more weight to the details of his argument? If he is willing to tell the truth about paying Tyrone Moss, and Tyrone Moss is willing to say "yeah, he paid me"...why then, should there be a huge seed of doubt when he says he paid Antrel Rolle, Vince Wilfork, Sam Shields, Sean Taylor, etc. etc.
You know as much as anyone about Miami's run-in with the NCAA during the 90s for the Pell Grant scandal...and in 2003, Miami again got in trouble with the NCAA, that caused the NCAA to scold Miami for a lack of increase in monitoring their football program since the previous violation...saying that they would be classified as a repeat offender for any violation occuring before Feb of 2008...so DURING that time period, this guy was running around paying players and if the ONLY thing he did was pay Tyrone Moss (which would be ridiculous) then it still falls under the Feb 2008 date...making Miami a REPEAT-repeat offender
if there is any case in which the death penalty should be used, it is this case...however, I hope they don't get the death penalty...I hope they just get a TV and bowl ban for 3+ years, and I hope it sends Donna Shalala into retirement and leaves Paul Dee with a tarnished reputation
I hate it for Jim Larranagga, he left a program that he had built up for years and years, a consistent winner...to go to a program so he could finally compete in the conference he dreamed of coaching (in the twilight of his career, too) and when he gets there, finds out some doucher had been running rampant through the program for a decade, and will hinder any amount of success he may have had, at a school that has never been known for its basketball prowess to begin with
And one of the most glaring things about this guy who's claiming this stuff is that he's a convicted felon who knows how to lie. And...it's entirely possible that these former players who are coming forward (which aren't many at all in comparison to those alleged by Shapiro, most are saying they've never even met this con-artist) are getting some type of promise of restitution or payment for speaking up and backing Shapiro. None of us know if that's going on. Most of these guys who are speaking up, including Moss who is the only named one, are likely not in the NFL and could use a little attention/money.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcdevil22
We're still talking about a key piece of testimony coming from a guy who's only talking to anyone about anything b/c this is a part of his federal plea deal. There's lots of guys who get upset and try to throw people under the bus in order to get their plea bargain--and even lie about others to make their case look better to the Feds. They'll say anything...and especially when it comes to trying to get revenge on those they feel slighted by, and that they blame for the punishment they're getting.Quote:
you have a guy who is admitting he gave extra illegal benefits to players, and you have players who are admitting he gave extra benefits to them...and THEN you have some receipts to back it up?!? without the receipts it's still a key piece of evidence and the testimony of those involved are usually the only thing the NCAA has to work with...but since you have players corroborating his story, don't you feel it gives more weight to the details of his argument? If he is willing to tell the truth about paying Tyrone Moss, and Tyrone Moss is willing to say "yeah, he paid me"...why then, should there be a huge seed of doubt when he says he paid Antrel Rolle, Vince Wilfork, Sam Shields, Sean Taylor, etc. etc.
All I'm saying is, these players who are talking, probably had a relationship with him--no doubt. But to say everyone's guilty b/c one ex-player is saying he knows this scumbag is ludicrous and a leap of epic proportions. Just because 1 story someone tells you is true doesn't mean the next 78 aren't lies. Especially when that someone is a criminal who's main mode of operation is deceitfulness, as shown by his deeds.
Yep--that was a big deal and I've never made excuses for it.Quote:
You know as much as anyone about Miami's run-in with the NCAA during the 90s for the Pell Grant scandal...
Yep--that was the baseball team. Some guy running a pitching camp hired some non-scholarship players to help with his camp, and paid them a small per hour wage for helping. That caused the NCAA to say that technically Miami was over their baseball scholly $$$ allotment, and they got a slap on the wrist. That honestly was nothing in the major scheme of things...but it did break the rules.Quote:
and in 2003, Miami again got in trouble with the NCAA,
They never said that due to a baseball violation.Quote:
that caused the NCAA to scold Miami for a lack of increase in monitoring their football program since the previous violation...
All true, IF the Shapiro allegations are proven by the NCAA. Another caveat is this though--Michael Irvin said on his radio show yesterday that Tyrone Moss was interviewed with the assurance that his comments to Yahoo would be off the record and he would be kept anonymous, and that they named him anyway. Also--Tyrone Moss has not been questioned by the NCAA, and may not ever be questioned by the NCAA as they don't have subpoena powers. Given that...how solid of a corroboration can the NCAA say that Ty Moss's statements are? Especially if they can't ever interview him officially and get it on their records? They can't just go according to what Yahoo says Ty Moss told them.Quote:
saying that they would be classified as a repeat offender for any violation occuring before Feb of 2008...so DURING that time period, this guy was running around paying players and if the ONLY thing he did was pay Tyrone Moss (which would be ridiculous) then it still falls under the Feb 2008 date...making Miami a REPEAT-repeat offender
Honestly, if all of this is true--I'd be fine with that. I've never been a fan of Shalala's and Dee's either one, and compared to the death penalty--TV/bowl ban and even some reduction in scholarships would be a great deal better than the Death Penalty--especially if it ends in Shalala/Dee having their time come to an end. One thing that Jason Whitlock said in his article about this stuff rings true with me though: SMU's Death Penalty clearly didn't deter anyone from breaking any rules in the long run as it was meant to do...all it did was postpone it and schools everywhere break the rules until they get caught, which is evidenced by all the UNC/OSU/Auburn/USC/Miami stuff coming up as of late. Slapping Miami with the Death Penalty won't cause a cease & desist by other schools...those who are doing the dirt will simply find a way to hide it better. It doesn't fix the ultimate problem.Quote:
if there is any case in which the death penalty should be used, it is this case...however, I hope they don't get the death penalty...I hope they just get a TV and bowl ban for 3+ years, and I hope it sends Donna Shalala into retirement and leaves Paul Dee with a tarnished reputation
Doucher is too nice of a word for Shapiro, and yeah--Larranaga and Golden both are seemingly top-notch human beings who came to Miami wanting to do things the right way. Both have been a breath of fresh air ever since they showed up on campus. The worst part of it is, any sanctions that get handed down will hurt them and not the folks that are responsible for it--which is a major NCAA flaw, in my opinion.Quote:
I hate it for Jim Larranagga, he left a program that he had built up for years and years, a consistent winner...to go to a program so he could finally compete in the conference he dreamed of coaching (in the twilight of his career, too) and when he gets there, finds out some doucher had been running rampant through the program for a decade, and will hinder any amount of success he may have had, at a school that has never been known for its basketball prowess to begin with
I knew there wasn't much reasoning there, I just wanted to drive a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironlung
Regardless, he wasn't some fan that just bumped into the players and took pics with them like you compared it to. Btw I wasn't talking about that vid, I'm referring to the two times he supposedly led them out on the field. He was a booster after all. There's really no doubt that he was close with some of these players, probably not all 72, but if you really believe he was some desperate guy chasing them around...then there's really no point in going forward. It's not like it's far-fetched to think they were following him around and "tight" since he was showering them with cash, gifts and girls - it's been confirmed and it's not looking anything like your friend says it was.
All the downplaying in the world can't change the overwhelming evidence there is for MAJOR violations. And I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they have said many times that the 4 year limitations can go further in certain circumstances and this happens to be one of them. Anyone that isn't a U fan can see how serious this is and can see that this isn't some manufactured story by "a felon". There doesn't seem to be really an inconsistencies in his story, they're confirmed by players, paper and other witnesses - or all.
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Kind of hard for him to falsify all of this, huh?
In an effort to substantiate the booster?s claims, Yahoo! Sports audited approximately 20,000 pages of financial and business records from his bankruptcy case, more than 5,000 pages of cell phone records, multiple interview summaries tied to his federal Ponzi case, and more than 1,000 photos. Nearly 100 interviews were also conducted with individuals living in six different states. In the process, documents, photos and 21 human sources ? including nine former Miami players or recruits, and one former coach ? corroborated multiple parts of Shapiro?s rule-breaking.
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It?s all true,? said one of Shapiro?s ex-girlfriends, who asked to remain anonymous out of fear of reprisals from former Miami players. ?He took care of them. What does that mean? It has a lot of meanings. He took care of them by giving cash to make sure they had stuff. He took care of them whenever they wanted to go party. He took care of them by getting them laid. He took care of them if they needed a place to stay. Whatever they needed, at that moment they needed it, Nevin would provide it. Whether it was sex, money, meals, a new TV, if their mother needed something, if they needed a new ring or some jewelry ? whatever they needed, Nevin would provide it.?
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Asked if he had been given $1,000 by the booster during their first meeting, Moss said: ?Yeah. It was me and some other players with my incoming [class]. I?m not going to say the names but you can probably figure them out yourself. When I was getting there my freshman year, it was me and a couple more players. ? It was me and a few more of the guys in my incoming class that he kind of showed some love to.?
Another player ? who also admitted taking benefits but requested anonymity ? said he was aware that Moss took money from Shapiro and supported the decision.
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Multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports Shapiro also violated NCAA rules with football assistant Joe Pannunzio, although the booster refused to answer any questions about that relationship. Shapiro also named assistant football equipment manager Sean Allen as someone who engaged in rulebreaking, and equipment managers Ralph Nogueras and Joey Corey as witnesses to some of his impropriety.
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two players confirmed the booster paid for sexual favors for themselves and others during their careers with the Hurricanes.
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Yahoo! Sports was able to identify a handful of Mercury Hotel charges on the debit card from his Wachovia statements. One charge in particular took place for rooms reserved on Sunday, Sept. 29, 2002 and settled on Monday, Sept. 30. The charges, which totaled $1,215.77, took place on Miami?s off week between a 38-6 win over Boston College and a 48-14 win against Connecticut.
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One former offensive starter for the Hurricanes confirmed to Yahoo! Sports that he had sex with a prostitute paid for by Shapiro and confirmed that other teammates did as well.
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According to summary documents acquired by Yahoo! Sports, it was such a regular occurrence that one of the other defendants in Shapiro?s Ponzi case, Roberto Torres, testified to it with federal prosecutors. Torres, who was the chief financial officer of Shapiro?s Capitol Investments, told prosecutors he witnessed the booster paying Hurricanes football players in his Miami Beach mansion, and said he had ?concern? Shapiro was being used by the athletes.
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Three sources, including two former Miami football players, confirmed that Shaprio offered bounties.
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He also spent thousands of dollars on suits and clothing for Hester, Gooden and McGahee at Fashion Clothiers ? purchases that were confirmed to Yahoo! Sports by the store?s owner, Shelly Bloom.
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One of Shapiro?s neighbors near the $2.7 million home said the booster invited him inside in 2002, where he met and spent time with McDougle and Green. The neighbor said the house?s driveway and street in front of the property were often filled with cars of players who were at Shapiro?s home.
?Put it this way: there were times I?d be on my way home and I?d roll by the house and the whole thing, and there was a lot going on there. A lot,? the neighbor said.
?Players and cars and all that.?
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That reality that was spelled out in additional federal testimony in Shapiro?s Ponzi case, when the booster?s former business partner, Torres, informed federal prosecutors that Miami athletes were taking Shapiro?s boat out ?twice a week? while the booster was incurring all of the costs.
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One of Shapiro?s bodyguards said his security detail had a consistent routine in place that it repeated several times a week: travel to a nightclub or strip club prior to Shapiro; make the club security aware that the booster would be arriving with a large group; secure Shapiro?s VIP area; and be on hand to whisk the booster and his contingent of players past any lines and into the privacy of their own area, where Shapiro would often spend thousands of dollars per night on bottles of liquor and champagne.
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Strip club visits included both coaches and players ? something that was referenced in a portion of federal testimony by Chicago real estate investor Sherwin Jarol, who was deposed in Shapiro?s Ponzi case. At one point in his testimony, a recording of which was viewed by Yahoo! Sports, Jarol describes a pair of August 2008 visits to Solid Gold nightclub with Shapiro. He says ?the coach of the Miami basketball? team (Frank Haith) attended one trip. Further in his testimony, he testifies that he ?believe(s) there were a couple football players? and added ?they all seemed to have a relationship with Nevin. Some stayed at his house,? he said.
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One former Miami player who received benefits from Shapiro told Yahoo! Sports he believed that was a credible claim, stating he went to Mansion as many as 20 times with the booster while playing for the Hurricanes, and never knew of occasions when Shapiro hadn?t brought athletes to the club.
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?He was always bringing athletes in to eat and introducing me to them,? said a restaurateur at one high-end Miami Beach eatery. ?Lots of big guys. Lots of University of Miami guys. Nevin did a lot of business with me. He spent a lot of money and made a lot of nights for me.?
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But while Huyghue denied ever funneling to players, one former Hurricane told Yahoo! Sports he received multiple extra benefits from both Shapiro and Huyghue during his career. The player described the benefits in detail but asked that they not be revealed, as the specific nature of them likely would reveal his identity.
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?Nevin just kind of introduced me to Michael and that was it,? the player said. ?After that, Michael and I had our own relationship, and it had nothing to do with Nevin. ? Yeah, Michael did give me some things.?
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Shapiro had committed to a $250,000 pledge that led to an athlete lounge on the Miami campus being named in his honor.
He had also donated $50,000 to the basketball program in 2008, complete with a photo that Shapiro says summed up the entire problem at the university. In a snapshot from that day, Shapiro is talking into a microphone, with Haith ? a coach the booster allegedly helped to buy a recruit ? looking on and smiling. In the background, University of Miami president Donna Shalala is grinning at the check Shapiro had just donated, a $50,000 contribution that he now admits was Ponzi money.
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Let's be realistic, that's enough evidence to have someone hanged. His claims have been backed up by more than a few players, the financial records(an audit) and witnesses that have absolutely nothing to gain from making anything up - ex. neighbor, restaurant manager, ex. etc. You say that people like Moss could use the attention, but then in the same post say he never wanted to revealed? Makes zero sense. There hasn't been that much denying either, it's been a whole lot more "no comments" then any denying. And those that do deny it aren't too convincing "Who me? Man, naw." for example. The guy has a lot to gain by telling the truth, so that makes zero sense that he would make it up. If he did lie, it helps him none and only gets him in more shit with perjury, but being completely honest can only help him. Not to mention him lying can be proven with the records and witnesses, yet they seem to back up at least most of what he has said. And about that statute....
"Under bylaw 36.2.3, an investigation can expand beyond the statute if information reveals that an individual tied to a university has engaged in ?a pattern of willful violations? over a sustained period beyond the previous four years."
It can go back as further and it will, but hell there's what a dozen players on their current roster that was close to him? Even if HALF of what he said was true and the rest complete BS, Miami is royally screwed and it still be one of the biggest scandals we've seen in the NCAA. They've been caught before in several scandals, this guy was a big donor to their program, why wouldn't anyone think this happened and they let it? In that last part of the Yahoo article he hits the nail on the head, most of this was in plain sight and could have easily been stopped by the program probably 9 years ago...but it wasn't, that's no accident. A guy that had been doing this for that long and that many people knew(I don't think anyone believes for a second he was some tag-along nobody, I'd say most were coming to him, not the other way around), there's no way none of the "higher-ups" in that program were clueless. If he hadn't been caught in the ponzi scheme, he'd probably be hitting up a club with some Miami players this weekend.
Looks as though the death penalty is not out of the question. I hope they fry the cheaters myself. Also a nice photo gallery with plenty of photos with the "wanna be" Funny as heck to see Cane fans trying to explain this mess away.
Source: Willful violators clause could apply at Miami - Investigations - Yahoo! Sports
In my mind--no. This is a guy who lied to hundreds of people and bilked them all out of 930 million bucks via a ponzi scheme. Everyone who's not a Miami fan tends to gloss over this point b/c they're giving the Yahoo article so much credit, as far as being "the" truth. The way this dude made money over all these years is by lying to people straight to their faces, and by making things look like they were really something substantial when it was all a game of shadows.Quote:
Kind of hard for him to falsify all of this, huh?
This guy swindled tons of money from people who were used to looking at investment plans, portfolios, and financial statements...and you're saying that Yahoo's journalism team could see past any stuff he could be trying to falsify? I don't buy that. I'm leaving it up to the NCAA to tie it all together, if it can be tied together. If not, then we'll see how big of a liar and con-artist this guy really is. If they tie it together, then Miami's program will take whatever penalties they deserve, and they'll go forward.
Once again--I'm not saying Miami's completely innocent, and that means players/staff/admins. I hope whomever did wrong and hurt the program that I love gets it as hard as they can get it when it comes to punishment/sanctions. I'm just saying we can't take everything this guy says as truth until it's all tied up and found to be 100% true--even if it looks bad as-is right now. Photos and credit card statements w/o names combined with the word of a convicted felon do not constitute hard lock-tight evidence.
Keep in mind folks--SMU did go through the Death Penalty, and they're still playing football today. Their program is nowhere near where it used to be, but I think that's more of a function of their University not being a popular destination anymore now that players aren't being paid. IF Miami gets the Death Penalty, they'll be gone for a while. Maybe even a full decade. But by then--they'll still be a top destination for football players once they're off probation/sanctions. Don't believe me? Then how in the world did we win a national title in 2001 and come an ace of getting another in 2002, just a few years after sanctions in 95-96? Shouldn't the Pell Grant scandal and the alleged Uncle Luke's Pay for Play completely turn recruits off to us? Well...it didn't.
Laugh and gloat now, but honestly--it would just be a hiatus at worst. After any sanctions expire from this, Miami will be competitive again. Once they're no longer in trouble, they'll be able to get back to recruiting South Florida talent, and if the right coach is there at that point in time and can keep players home, and more importantly...run the program the right way and still be successful, then kids will still want to come to Miami. Sanctions will suck HARD in the interim, but on down the road--they'll be just fine.
Michael Irvin certainly slammed him on his radio show earlier. Called him a rapist (not a literal) one.
I'm sure that a lot of what he does say is true, but there are also a lot of inaccuracies and lies in the yahoo article as well that can be confirmed. The biggest problem is, there is so much there, it will take a thorough investigation to be able to determine what is accurate and what is fabricated.
As far as this goes though, the ncaa has a much bigger problem on their hands. Giving any type of probation to the school isnt going to help them whatsoever. They can give the death penalty if they want, still its not going to change anything.
They need to go the route they did with Todd Bozeman and Kelvin Sampson. Guys like Clint Hurtt, Jeff Stoutland, Joe Pannunzio, and Aubrey Hill need to be removed from NCAA athletics with a multiple (3-5 years imo) year ban. People in the athletic department and administration need the same penalities.
Any athletes who get caught need to be ruled ineligible and their careers be ended. No more repaying restitution.
Lastly, the college should be forced to pay millions in fines.
Bowl bans, tv bans, and death penalties do nothing but hurt the fans and the conferences and other schools. You cant do tv bans. They dont do that anymore because it screws the other team and the conference. Can you imagine how pissed everyone in Tallahassee and Blacksburg are going to be if they cant watch their own team? That aint gonna work. Bowl bans hurt the conference because of the equal payout, and the death penalty destroys everything and takes a chit ton of money away from everyone. TV networks, the school, other schools, the conference, everyone.
Never mentioned by name. Shapiro named everyone else under the sun except Joe. Why was that? Besides the fact that Pan still talked to him afterwards and didnt cut all ties, I cant figure out why Yahoo had to dig up clues to implicate him, that NS wouldnt do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_Kotite
No idea. Yahoo wrote a half ass article. They tell the story but leave the reader asking a lot of questions. The amount of players that they quoted, but wouldn't mention their names, is something that bugs me.
At what point does the federal government get involved in something like this? The amount of corruption in sports is so bad these days. The mafia has been fixing games for years. We know about Tim Daugnahy(sp?) and everyone has heard about all of the street agents involved in college athletics, and AAU has ruined college basketball to an extent. You have people gambling heavy on youth league football games in inner cities (miami is the worst, go figure). At some point the government is going to have to step in and fix some of these problems the way the steroid problems in baseball were fixed. I'm not much for socialism, but I don't want to see college football turn into WWE either.
I was being slightly facetious, I seriously doubt Panny is Cosa Nostra or some shit like that haha, I bet he is still somewhat close with Shapiro so maybe he doesnt wanna throw one of his last friends under the bus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_Kotite
I agree with the last part, but I dont believe we should rely on the government to fix certain sports. We have commissioners, league officials, college presidents, etc.. the responsibility lies on them to fix their sports. I agree that someone needs to forcefully start this, but its their responsibility to maintain a decent product while maintaining some integrity.
College sports in particular are ripe with corruption.
1) AAU/street agents for college basketball
its by far the worst IMO. its the most rotten system in sports.
2) College football and boosters
its nowhere near as bad as AAU basketball and having to deal with handlers every time, but its getting that way. Not to mention football brings more revenue, so the problems will be more likely to be swept under the rug to maintain revenue.
3) baseball and scholarships
By allowing players to receive varying amount of scholarship money, it makes for tough cohesion at times when player A is receiving 10x the amount player B is getting, or when player B has to give up some of his scholarship money to open the door for a hotshot prospect to sign. Its nowhere near as bad as bball/cfb but its clearly an issue.
And when Shapiro's sometime dining companion Carlos Noriega, Miami Beach police chief, met U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder at South Beach's Prime 112 steakhouse, Shapiro was there to get his photo snapped with the nation's top law enforcement official, a police spokesman confirmed.
"He would always say, 'I have to go meet this NFL player or this NBA player, "' said Adam Meyer, a sports handicapper in Plantation who runs adamwins.com and said he advised Shapiro on sports bets. "If you go into the house, it's pictures of him with all different famous athletes. Dwyane Wade on the boat with their arms around each other. Shaq bench-presssing him."
This guy was a picture whore and also it has to be a HUGE problem when the highest of government officals are hanging out with you. It makes everyone look bad. But you have to start wondering what hes saying is true and what isnt. Arthur Brown's dad and mentor's name were on hotel receipts that Shapiro provided, but somehow Brown has been cleared to play. Dubose and Patchan have already been cleared to play at UF even though they were being entertained just like Ray Ray Armstrong and Dyron Dye were. Robert Marve has been cleared to play at Purdue. With all of these players being cleared to play, the investigation is obviously A) a lot further along than what we know since we are just getting the information and B) many of the allegations, especially against Arthur Brown, must have been confirmed to be false otherwise we would be looking at another UNC type player suspension.