ALISTAIR MOTHERFUCKIN OVEREEM
He just EMBARRASSED Brock Lesnar tonight, TKOing him with kicks and knees to the body in round one.
JDS is next, then Overeem will officially be the baddest mother on the planet.
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ALISTAIR MOTHERFUCKIN OVEREEM
He just EMBARRASSED Brock Lesnar tonight, TKOing him with kicks and knees to the body in round one.
JDS is next, then Overeem will officially be the baddest mother on the planet.
Ghey??? Nah lesnar is a strikers bitch. JDS over Ream.
I just watched the fight.
Lesnar can't take a shot that's for sure but a couple of other things that came to mind. He (Lesnar) appears to have poor coaching by elite MMA standards, not even sure who he trains under these days but he was poorly prepared and either had a terrible fight plan or failed miserably in carrying out the fight plan. To be honest this is about what I expected from him when he came to the sport from pro rasslin' I've been amazed that he has had as much success up till now as he has.
Well, he trains under Erik Paulson, as you know a pretty respected guy in MMA circles. But I agree, the fact that he did not come out and push Reem against the cage and try and take him down and make him carry his weight surprised the shit out of me. Theres no way Lesnar could strike with Overeem, yet he only tried one half assed TD that was easily stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotch
But Ubereem's knee strikes are as hard as any I have ever saw, you just knew Lesnar was looking for a way out as soon as the first big knee landed in the midsection.
I was also surprised how easily Reem pushed Lesnar around. He would just push him in the corner and threw him around. THAT shocked me as much as anything.
Lesnar retired afterwards; but I have to give the guy respect, he came in with no experience whatsoever and was thrown directly to the sharks.
His fight list was:
Mir
Herring
Couture
Mir
Carwin
Cain
Overeem
That is an absolute murderer's row of HW fighters to fight in your first eight fights. To be that successful proves the guy has talent, he just does not have the ability to take big shots and keep going. He showed serious heart in the Carwin fight, but that was before the surgeries and stuff. Maybe if he never gets sick its a different path, but he was almost scared to get hit last night.
Not that a normal person wants to get hit by a guy like K-1 Champ Alistair f'n Overeem, but if you are gonna fight at this level you have to know you gonna get hit.
Overeem has been on an absolute roll, has not lost in almost six years now.
His wins arent great, but he has a chance to be known as one of the greatest HW in the history of the sport with 3-4 more wins.
I like Reem over JDS, more diverse striking. JDS strugged at times with Mirko, and Reem was embarrassing CC before the NC. If JDS does not take down Alistair and wear him out, Overeem wins by 2nd round stoppage.
What the hell is wrong with this forum? You type out a reply hit spell check and the shit vanishes
Maybe you spelled it all wrong. haha
I didn't know he trained under Paulson?! I actually know Eric and have a huge amount of respect for his skills. But he and Brock are probably not a great fit. Eric is a slick submissions guy and sort of a finesse striker, not exactly Brock's two strong points :) Brock would have been better matched with Randy or one of the other ex-wrestlers with lots of experience.
I think he did train with Randy after their fight, I only know this because there was a big mess a couple weeks ago. Alistair had decided on Xtreme Couture as his US camp, and everything was set up. But apparently Randy had to sign a confidentiality agreement when Brock went and trained there. Randy is off doing a movie, but Lesnar's camp still would not allow Overeem to train there. It was very petty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotch
I respect Paulson as well, he has been involved with some of the best of the best in MMA and the HW division. He was a big influence on Josh Barnett IIRC.
Brock needs a guy like Randy or AKA, a big camp with outside trainers instead of relying on yes men that are on his payroll to soothe his ego. That is one of the reasons he has not been more successful, he refuses to expand his training and become a true mixed martial artist. He is a traditional folkstyle guy, whereas Hendo and them are more Greco-based.
Paulson has been around since before MMA came to the states. He was a JKD guy associated with the late Larry Hartsell who first influenced me to add grappling to our kickboxing based martial arts training. Paulson and Barnett are occasional students of catch legend Billy Robinson. In fact due to Billy's age they demonstrated most of the moves for him on his catch-as-catch-can instructional series that was put together by my old friend Jake Shannon.
Paulson's striking style is sort of a JKD / Thai hybrid that I can't see being effective for Brock and although catch based submissions are the way to go with trying to teach any life-long wrestler submissions it is always an uphill battle. Also, Paulson has never really been noted for his cardio or cardio training.
Your point about Brock needing a camp that treated him like one of the fighters instead of THE fighter is right on target IMO.
In modern MMA, Barnett is the absolute best catch wrestler IMO. Sakuraba is the best ever, but Barnett is by far the best active fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotch
Barnett has a gas tank for days, but none of the bigger Paulson fighters are known as cardio machines as you said.
No offense, but I do not believe a fighter can rely specifically on JKD and be successful in modern MMA. We've saw training videos of Lesnar striking, and supposedly he really worked on his Muay Thai, but it was never evident in any fight. He was never the better striker in any fight, even tho he knocked Herring down and finished Couture. His technique was putrid, he was so stiff striking he could never be successful. His leg kicks, which he liked to throw, were painful to watch. He never put any force behind them at all.
If Lesnar would have devoted himself to MMA straight out of college and went about it the right way (training at a real camp, having outside instructors and using a wide variety of sparring partners), he could have become one of the best HW fighters ever with his size and athleticism.
I will admit, I believe the illness took quite a bit out of him. The fighter we saw fight Mir was not the fighter that stepped in the Octagon against Overeem. He was timid and looked to just get it over with as fast as possible. He did not try for a real TD, just that half ass attempt that Alistair easily shrugged off.
But what surprised me the most was the fact that Overeem bullied Lesnar around the cage. He pushed Lesnar into the cage with ease, was able to easily dictate position, and was generally the stronger man in the cage which shocked me.
I think the beatings he took from Carwin and Valasqez took a lot out of him. I dont think his heart was to into it after those. He got big money and knows he had the WWF option to go to if things didnt work out. Pat Berry was training with him for strikin gi guess butI honestley just think Lesnars heart wasnt in the game anymore
In it's purest form JKD isn't a style at all but an approach to training, absorb what is useful to the individual from any given style and discard the rest. In theory this would be perfect for mma fighters, but in practice JKD nearly always becomes a style with instructors attempting to form their students into copies of themselves.
I don't follow MMA real closely these days, but the clips I've seen of Brock training his striking he lacked "flow", everything was stiff and mechanical and few if any practical combinations.
Barnett is a tough guy and very skilled. If you watch some of the youtube vids of him teaching seminars for coach Robinson you realize how much more technical Robinson's knowledge of submission is than Barnett's or nearly anyone else I've ever seen. I remember back in the day when Sakuraba was destroying everyone in front of him including four members of the Gracie family some pictures that obviously were taken in secret were posted on the underground forum of Sakuraba training at Takada dojo with the windows blacked out and coach Robinson sitting in a chair in the ring with him and his training partners instructing him.
Barnett and Paulson with Billy Robinson. Robinson is just about the last elite pure catch guy alive today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=2lNJgJoyCDQ
Yup, thats the rub. Lee would shit if he saw some of these instructors trying to impose their own JKD style on their students. I believe that every MMA fighter or person who trains in general should determine their own striking style. Whether its more boxing-based, kickboxing based, Muay Thai, etc... You have to develop your own unique style to be successful. If you look at the best MMA fighters, they all have their own personal style that leads to incredible success.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotch
Look at Anderson Silva's striking. Yes, his Muay Thai base is evident, but the Capoeria moves he has incorporated have made him almost impossible to outstrike. His timing is impeccable, his movements are out of this world, and most of that comes from Capoeria. The knees and elbows with the Plum are straight Muay Thai, but his approach to landing those positions are formed over many disciplines.
Stiff is exactly how I see it. I mentioned that in my post as well, he did not allow himself to become loose and fluid. A top shelf MMA fighter has to be comfortable in their approach and be able to move and flow with any attack. Its like trying to teach someone to build a boat from a book. Yes, they would have all the technical skills needed to build the boat but it would be almost impossible for them to actually build the boat.Quote:
I don't follow MMA real closely these days, but the clips I've seen of Brock training his striking he lacked "flow", everything was stiff and mechanical and few if any practical combinations.
I believe Barnett is as close to your style of catch fighters as we will ever see, and he is the last of the dying breed. People believe you HAVE to have a jiu-jitsu base to submission grapple, but its proven that catch can be as effective if not more than BJJ or JJJ (Japanese Jiu-Jitsu). Barnett has been a top 5 HW for almost 10 years now, and has never been ran over by any fighter because of his heart and skill. His resume looks bad with the three losses to Mirko, but CC is the worst possible matchup for Josh. I love watching Barnett fight because he is constantly active and never coasts. He is also tough as nails, look at the beatings Mirko put on him and he never quit. Aleks E also put a beating on him before Barnett subbed him. I was shocked at how easily he tossed around 280 pound Brett Rogers too, his strength and striking defense are deceptively good.Quote:
Barnett is a tough guy and very skilled. If you watch some of the youtube vids of him teaching seminars for coach Robinson you realize how much more technical Robinson's knowledge of submission is than Barnett's or nearly anyone else I've ever seen. I remember back in the day when Sakuraba was destroying everyone in front of him including four members of the Gracie family some pictures that obviously were taken in secret were posted on the underground forum of Sakuraba training at Takada dojo with the windows blacked out and coach Robinson sitting in a chair in the ring with him and his training partners instructing him.
But Saku is maybe the best grappler in MMA history for his time. Guys like Roger Gracie and Jacare have won Abu Dhabi and other big competitions but have not been able to incorporate their grappling into MMA as seamlessly as Saku. He was able to become the first MMA superstar because he relied on pure catch grappling. Watching his reverse figure fours and such against the Gracies should have proven to everyone that catch could defeat BJJ, but since Royce and them won the early UFCs in the US, BJJ caught on.
People also forget that Sakuraba won a UFC tournament, UFC Japan.
I dont think catch is gonna die. I'd say more folks than you think are becoming interested in it.
Hey gotch do you remeMber anything about Antonio Inoki/Ali fight I had never heard anything about it untill a few days ago?
It was a work, like a pro wrestling exhibition. It was more for show than anything, but it was a huge deal at the time IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones
You can find the fight (if you want to call it that) on youtube.
Gene LeBell was the referee.
It's my understanding that it was suppose to be a work from the start but due to Ali's refusing to go along with losing it turned into a quasi shoot. At that point, just prior to the match Ali threatened to pull out if the rules weren't changed drastically to prevent Inoki from taking him down and or submitting him. This all resulted in Inoki spending much of the match lying on his back and kicking at Ali's legs. Pretty ridiculous stuff all in all.
Also, despite Inoki's huge reputation in Japan the guys in the know say that Inoki's skills were far from high level in fact Karl "Gotch" Istaz who was his trainer is on video (also available on youtube) telling Jake Shannon that Inoki was pretty far down the list in terms of the early Japanese guys that he trained.
You can also find video of the Gene LeBell vs Milo Savage mixed match that was perhaps the first mma match fought in the U.S. since the early part of the 1900's.
Oh man I just watched the Video. Was funny seeing Ali in the corner his legs up. Other than that I would have been mad to have bought a ticket to that.
That Barnett, Paulson and Robinson video is awsome.