http://www.eifl.co.jp/index/export/gip/gip-ex.html
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/02/68.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/02/69.jpg
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With prices to match. I don't know GIP,it sounds a lot like GPA.Think folks could get confused about this name ?
I didn't make any connection doubt if most would.
thought the one on the right was interesting...
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/02/70.jpg
I know these guys quite well and in fact I was hanging out with them in Korea two weeks ago. Good people. Total maniacs. Very very particular.
Suzuki, the owner of GIP, has spent years researching and untold sums in R&D and test manufacturing. Hence, the drivers are insanely expensive...as much as real WE sells for over here.
WE gear is a bit more expensive by the time it gets to Japan...crazy crazy expensive after shipping, duty, and repair.
But I have to say that GIP replicas sound BETTER than real originals. I compared his latest version of the 597A tweeter with good originals and they were plainly better. The GIP 555 was also better than the WE to my ears. I shook his hand and said "You did it, Bro!"
The staunch WE devotee might argue that the sound is not precisely the same as Western, but most of that old gear is half broken down anyway. The real WE was a bit grainy...a cool vintage effect but I could do without it when I heard the alternative.
Before this experience I had done work with a series of drivers they make which are "upgraded" versions of WE 1930s stuff...more and purer permandur in the pole pieces, more powerful magnets, etc. Those drivers are really fantastic. But now I find that I like their vintage series better than the originals too.
Here's a few pics GIP 597A, GIP guys doing a field recone of some TA4181s...They are real craftsmen.
They made about 30 different formulations of 18" 4181 cones but focus on 3: original sound, heavy duty, and "special #32," which is an improved recipe according to them.
My company invites them to exhibit with us as the Munich audio show every year because they are our good buds and lots of fun. Probably as unlikely to turn a profit in the near future as us as well...idealistic purism doesn't pay!
You can see more pics of their speaker units in the catalog at http://silbatone.com/images/2011MunichCatalog.pdf
Cool stuff!Quote:
You can see more pics of their speaker units in the catalog at http://silbatone.com/images/2011MunichCatalog.pdf
For whatever reason Firefox doesn't like that link. I had to use the old stand by POS google chrome to view it.
Bowtie do you have a PDF reader installed? I recommend Foxit...opened perfectly for me running Foxit/Firefox.
Yes, it hangs up after about 1.1 megs load. I have no trouble with other pdf's. Just something a little wanky about this one for my system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
It's not a wonder PC's work as well as they do, it's a wonder they work at all. A PC contains components, sometimes from several HUNDRED manufacturers, all adhering to some sort of loose "standard". Better than the '80's, I remember working all afternoon to get a modem to work. Don't even get me started on graphic cards of the day...
See I don't understand that ! Why go through all the trouble of making them look like replicas and then they don't sound the same.In the end your asking your customers to pay for something that is totally unnecessary.I'm of the thinking of why not just go ahead and design their own designs and then therefore could give their product to their customers at a much more reasonable price.When the price is approaching the same cost here in the USA as originals I think most would go with WE.I think folks forget when they are comparing designs is The WE are 1930's-40's while these are 2012.There has been a few improvements in materials since then. It's the History of it.When you own WE gear you are owning a big piece of some of the first audio compression drivers in history IMO.Thankfully we Have our origins to Thank Western Electric for. For our Beloved Altec Lansings ! :cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekstar
Geekstar Thank You so Much for posting that ! :wink2: It's very nice to have someone who has actually heard them ! :Thumbs up:
I'm still using IE 7 with Adobe Reader. :redface2: For whatever reason VISTA doesn't like a lot of different things,especially other browsers.The only other browser that works for me on this computer is Opera.It is pretty much all I use now, works great, is lightning fast.Give it a try I think you may like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
They offer original style, and ones with their improvements/changes. I have no issue with that. In the Hot Rod industry it's common.
Didn't see that part.But prices are still the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
Suzuki's idea for GIP is to make units that sound like fresh, new Western Electric. I think he is probably correct that old ones are often not working right. He inspected lots of originals and fixes them, so he probably knows what he is trying to say. he complains that if people use broken down WE, it reflects badly on the legendary accomplishments of WECo.
There is a strong "family resemblance" between the originals and the copies but the new ones are smoother--that is what I am calling better. The real 597A is quite subtle but a little bit grainy or spitty. When we switched to the GIP I could no longer pick out the sound of the tweeter. Turning it on just made the 15A sound more colorful, detailed, and wide range. Same with the 555...original was slightly rough in comparison, but you probably wouldn't notice until making the A-B evaluation. The GIP sounded better to me.
GIP has developed techniques for aging paper cones to make them sound very broken in and I watched those young guys massage 18" cones for hours. Before and after comparison of texture and flexure was amazing. But how do you "age" a metal diaphragm and get that 80 year old sound? They have been working on it.
GIP does focus on making their own units based on WE technology with advanced materials. For example they can get 99.8% pure permandur now whereas in the 30s the limit was like 99.2% (making up the numbers but close). This improvement allowed them to squeak a db or two more sensitivity out of the 594A motor, which was at the limit of possibility back in the day.
On the other hand they have had a lot of metallurgy lab work done and other material analysis trying to pin down exactly what the originals used and they try to stick to the original formulas where appropriate, get all the cone, bobbin, and diaphragm weights and thicknesses right, etc.
Below is a pic of the new GIP 8" TA-4189. The original 4189, a projection booth monitor, looks like a plain old Jensen or Rola field coil from an old radio--nothing special. They fixed this one up with a cast iron cover, cast frame, and 555-style binding posts. MUCH nicer than the original. Can't really call it a copy. I think the original was more of an excuse to create this than a model.
The main thing they have working against them is the price structure. If you have excessive cash and you are just interested in sonics, the GIPs are a good pick...but WE collectors want history and romance with their speakers. Museum-grade WE will always go up in value (or so it is presumed) whereas the resale value on GIP is not going to be 100%.
In any case, I respect these guys for their insane dedication to the task. They see it as a tribute to Western Electric.
Me, I'm an ALTEC man from way back...a proud 99%er. I love Western but ALTEC is good enough for me!! Give me a six-pack and a pair of 288s and I'm happy.
--------------------------
Hey thanks for the tip on the pdf. I am having firefox problems too. The last firefox update is not working right on my laptop at all, misc screw-ups on my desktop too.
Pics:
--GIP 555
--GIP bobbin compared with old recone. The old spider is tyvek or plasticized paper where the original was paper
--GIP TA-4189
--GIP tech Mr. Kawanishi massaging and softening surround on 18" cone to make it "broken-in." This cat is deep into the art of the recone! A hack recone shop can crank out 10 speakers in the time it takes them to do one.
OT: OG your post above on computer construction reminded me of a space mission cartoon in which an astronaut is asked how he feels about going into space. He replies, "How would you feel sitting on a million parts, each made under a lowest price contract?".
looks good from here
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/atta...s-gip8inch.jpg
Here's a pic of the GIP 4189 cones.
I heard these in a small open back box a few months ago. That version did not have a dustcap.
Very good...although I think the box design could have been better or at least bigger.
They have been working on new cabs and I'll get to hear the new one at the Munich show.
You were in Seoul two weeks ago. That is interesting. Next time you come to Korea, Please let me know.
One of my audio friend is also making his own sound system using old Altec or WE, Jensen units.
I visited his work place and tried what he accomplished^^ last sunday. He removed damaged old paper con from 515 and put his own woofer paper con using Korean traditional paper called Hanji. He also made his own networks to make muti way crossover. Those were installed in his own plywood enclosers . WE 12025 horn and 720 driver were matched and EV 350 were added to them. He then put one more super tweeter to make it four way.
The result was quite pleasant. The bass went deeper and became tighter. The response of the woofer became faster. General tone balance was good to my ear.
I didn't believe that any change from the original would bring any better result. Because I believed that the people from WE, Altec etc who were specialized in speaker design and spent so much time and energy to make the one couldn't be beaten up by some kind of tweeks by the usual man like us.
But these days, almost ten years after, I couldn't deny that what he made was good or better than mine. As I am very much inclined to horn speaker system after I got the 604B, I am asking his advice for my system. It never happened before when I couldn't understand what he was trying to do.
:D Where it came from is John Glenn's flight, he was told that just before launch by another astronaut.Quote:
Originally Posted by mah
Hi Sanhanul:Quote:
I couldn't deny that what he made was good or better than mine. As I am very much inclined to horn speaker system after I got the 604B, I am asking his advice for my system. It never happened before when I couldn't understand what he was trying to do.
604B can work well but I found 604 to be a tricky speaker to tune for home use.
I think your friend taught you one of the lessons of horn systems: BIGGER IS BETTER!!
2 or 3 way with 12" or 15" woofer might be your next step!!
This is all pro gear, often designed for theaters, and sometimes adjustments must be made for small rooms. WE and Altec engineering is a very good start.
Have fun!
Joe Roberts
OT - Hi Joe. Dennis Had wanted me to send his regards. He is getting back in the biz in a small way running his own shop once again...
I have been restoring a set of A7's with the goal of letting him play with them and hopefully coming up with a novel crossover design....
Nobody ever retires from audio...it is impossible!Quote:
He is getting back in the biz in a small way
Send my regards...