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WWII 800 found in the wild
It pays to let people know you are into this stuff. A friend / business associate called tto see if I wanted this. He remembered me building some horns that looked like this a few years ago. By the outward appearance it looks to be a WWII vintage 800. The horn, driver, cabinet and xo are correct. Hopefully it contains the correct steel frame 803 (the hinge is right anyway) . I?ve had hundreds of old Altecs but only ever owned one of the horns, two of the woofers and zero 810 cabinets. The date on the camera is wrong, these pictures are from yesterday. Anyway, this is the only place I know where people who can appreciate the rarity congregate.
It's My happy day :-)
Marty
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Yeah looks like a H808 horn 800 cab,hopefully a 802 driver. Pictures look a bit strange maybe optical illusion.The one pick looks like an 800 and the other looks like a 825/828.But yeah definitely a 800.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image.../800/page3.jpg
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image.../800/page2.jpg
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...eakers/800.htm
CONGRATS !!
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Great find!
It would be nice to get accurate dimensions so someone could draw an 800 print...
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Very nice....... will it get cleaned up and used as is, or will we get to see a restoration?
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Looking at the literature Best posted I noticed for the first time that a 515 was an option for this speaker. Hopefully the original owner was cheap enough to stick with the 803.
O.G. I had no Idea that there are no drawings of this cabinet floating around. I will get a set done and post them here. The wings were not with it though so that will still be a guessing game unless someone can scale them from the old pictures. What I really wish I had was a trashed 808 I could sacrifice. I would like to get one of them drawn so people could build them. With the current prices for an original you could probably have a cabinet shop build them and be money ahead.
As far as the fate of this particular speaker goes, it will not be parted out or sold offshore but I am not going to hang onto it either. I don’t have the room to keep something this big waiting for a mate. I’ll clean it, document it and most likely trade it off for something less rare that I can actually use or sneak into the house.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Second look- is that an early 2 bolt 802 and a one piece aluminum horn? If it is, a rare bird.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
It?s an 802B driver on the urethane horn. My understanding of the horns is that the composite was the second version after the tar filled. They were only produced for a short time before the switch to Aluminum. Here is a picture of the first 803 that would date the whole thing to the very earliest production.
The Ironic thing is that I actually took this photo and then found it on Lansing Heritage. I posted about this woofer and its mate on the old Altec Users site years ago. My brother put his fingers through both cones if you can believe that. After he destroyed half a dozen RCA woofers on the next big find I quit asking him to help. Anyway, it looks like Steve Schell or someone else saved the photo which is a good thing because these are very hard to find even a photo of and mine were lost in a HDD crash
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Quote:
Originally Posted by
martyh45
It’s an 802B driver on the urethane horn. My understanding of the horns is that the composite was the second version after the tar filled. They were only produced for a short time before the switch to Aluminum. Here is a picture of the first 803 that would date the whole thing to the very earliest production.
The Ironic thing is that I actually took this photo and then found it on Lansing Heritage. I posted about this woofer and its mate on the old Altec Users site years ago. My brother put his fingers through both cones if you can believe that. After he destroyed half a dozen RCA woofers on the next big find I quit asking him to help. Anyway, it looks like Steve Schell or someone else saved the photo which is a good thing because these are very hard to find even a photo of and mine were lost in a HDD crash
Hey Marty ! The H808 was never produced as a tar-filled.There were 3 iterations I think. The urethane,composite, and the 2 piece aluminum.The urethane version are very brittle and will break easily.
Good move on the brother. I wouldn't even let him near them if he was my brother for fear of damage.Ruining 8 cones Ouch !!! :Crying:
One other thing the Dimensions of the wings are posted on those links I posted (Second Pic at the Bottom) that you could determine once you take measurements of the cabinet.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Altec Best, the original version of the H-808 was indeed tar filled. It was the standard horn of the Lansing Iconic, introduced in 1937. I'm not sure when Altec added the "H" to the designation, but it was the same horn with identical dimensions. It used a three stud mount (same dimensions as later small format JBL) to the Lansing 801 driver. With the change to the permanent magnet 802 driver in 1945 and two piece cast horns there were some rare overlap models. I have seen a three stud, RWB label 802 driver as well as a couple of large flange, two hole tar filled H-808 horns. The urethane horn was actually two identical four cell castings ground flat and glued together, as was the aluminum version evidently cast in the same molds. I think the procession of two piece H-808s goes like this: glued urethane, glued aluminum, bolted aluminum.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...lletins/4c.jpg
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Quote:
Originally Posted by
martyh45
O.G. I had no Idea that there are no drawings of this cabinet floating around. I will get a set done and post them here. The wings were not with it though so that will still be a guessing game unless someone can scale them from the old pictures. What I really wish I had was a trashed 808 I could sacrifice.
Hmm, I thought I posted them quite awhile back. Oh well, kind of academic as the info is on an HD I can't access [at least for now]. I've a rear 3/4 view that you can probably eyeball close enough with the specs on the brochure. Is the tri-***** email addy still good?
GM
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steve Schell
Altec Best, the original version of the H-808 was indeed tar filled. It was the standard horn of the Lansing Iconic, introduced in 1937. I'm not sure when Altec added the "H" to the designation, but it was the same horn with identical dimensions. It used a three stud mount (same dimensions as later small format JBL) to the Lansing 801 driver. With the change to the permanent magnet 802 driver in 1945 and two piece cast horns there were some rare overlap models. I have seen a three stud, RWB label 802 driver as well as a couple of large flange, two hole tar filled H-808 horns. The urethane horn was actually two identical four cell castings ground flat and glued together, as was the aluminum version evidently cast in the same molds. I think the procession of two piece H-808s goes like this: glued urethane, glued aluminum, bolted aluminum.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...lletins/4c.jpg
Wasn't 100% but didn't think they had a TF 808.I remember the 3 808's urethane/composite,Aluminum cast, 2 piece aluminum.
You know Steve I was thinking of this Iconic that had a 1508 Horn.So I didn't think the 808 was TF.I was confusing the two.But looking at the photos again this Iconic was the Field Coil versions (Early)
Thanks Steve !!! :wink2:
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/02/71.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/02/72.jpg
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Interesting...sorta thought there was a one piece aluminum casting, probably what I saw was a glued one and didn't look close enough. Would have had no reason to. Likely mistook lack of bolt flanges for a one piece.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GM
Is the tri-***** email addy still good?
GM
Hi GM, It is if you have marty@_______________
Best, That 15 cell small format horn is the coolest thing I have ever seen. I bet the cells would be the same as the 808. Once we have a drawing of a typical 808 cell it should be a simple matter of stacking them up and calculating the new length for the first section.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Quote:
Originally Posted by
martyh45
Hi GM, It is if you have marty@_______________
Best, That 15 cell small format horn is the coolest thing I have ever seen.
It is ! I would love to own something like that, especially any of those old field coil Lansings, and the 15 cell 800 Hz horn. :smile2:
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
I nearly flew out of my chair when that picture of the Iconic with H-1508 appeared here in a prior thread. I own a pair of 1508s, built with captive threaded throats for the large format Lansing drivers like 284 and 285. This one in the picture is the only other one I have seen and it was built to use the small format 801 driver. The 1943 Altec Lansing catalog lists several other 800Hz. horn models, none of which I have seen in the wild except for the 808 and 1508.
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...943/page08.jpg
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Yup if you look at the weight as well from the 1508,1504,1503 from the link you posted, the weight nearly doubles each time you go lower in cutoff frequency.You also get a much longer/bigger horn too.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
One could retire, to the Bahamas, on a pair of those Iconic/H1508.......
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Steve is correct. In one of my travels I worked with a tar filled version, it looked like a smaller brother of the early tar filled 805 horn.there was also a 15 cell version. I have picts. of a cast aluminium type which matches Steve's description. A later type was made of a composite material, probably better due to it's inert characteristics. I cannot find the pictures of the composite type.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
I have 4 more pictures to share and will send in another thread.
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These are the remaining 4 pictures.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Re thread #12 great photos of a historically famous unit - this person could be a serious listener,notice the egg crate treatment used on the wall(30 eggs per,metric)
Wonder what's behind them? Maybe the floor should have some carpeting or rugs. I would like to see & hear close up.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Me too. Kinomat I Love those horns and drivers you posted.Are you using them at the moment on anything ?
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Well I got the thing home. Unfortunately the woofer was wrong, fortunately it was still a pretty good unit from the 40?s (IPC lu-1004). Strange that someone would swap out one 40?s vintage woofer for another. Man would I like to have seen the collection of gear that spawned that marriage. The horn is urethane but too good to cut up. I never realized but the h-808 has veins running back to the mouth of the horn.
The 810 is an interesting thing. The horn flairs are separated from the main volume by ridged insulation and there is either a partition below the vent or another space separated by insulation. I won?t know until I pull the bottom portion of the back tomorrow but it seems that it is a full partition.
Here are a few quick photos of what I found. Better will follow tomorrow and I will get going on the drawings.
Looks like I can only attach one photo per post so I will try a follow up
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Quote:
Originally Posted by
martyh45
Looks like the rest of the photos are to large. Here are direct links
Photos are actually small.The upload attachments here is limited size.
Just copy and paste the IMG code at Photobucket. I'll upload a couple of your photos so you have an Idea.When you upload all the photos select all photos(Check Mark) just go to the bottom of the page where it says "Choose Action" when you do it will have a drop down menu.Click on generate link codes.Down in the middle it will say Full size codes just click the center of the box and it will copy them all. With just a few clicks you can post all your photos at once.Should look like this Marty.Click IMG full size for bulletin boards and forums.
Hope this is helpful Marty ! :smile2:
Looks like the driver mounting flange is cracked around the holes.
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/03/5.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/03/6.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/03/7.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/03/8.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/03/9.jpg
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
You're lucky, keep all the units-IPC means International Projector Corp. (SIMPLEX) wheh they bought enough Altec or other speaker manufacturers would label to suit.
IPC part No LU1004. So speaker could be Jensen, Stephens,Lansing,RCA etc. Don't discard but carry out more investigation.The composite horn I had was just like yours, only difference is colour, yours either painted or original grey removed.Does it have the original wooden horn sled?Your system is P.M types with Altec N800 X/over.Did the HF unit have a gasket,I see the horn flange cracked at both mounting holes, be careful.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Cone looks like a Jensen. Hmm ?
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Altec Best
Cone looks like a Jensen. Hmm ?
So does the basket....... what little of it I can see.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
The woofer looks like Jensen manufacture in person too all but the paint anyway. There are no numbers but IPC numbers visible. The magnet at least 50% larger than a p15LL and the cone seems unusually deep. Tomorrow is full documentation day, I’ll get better pictures then.
Best, Thanks for the help posting the photos. I want to do PDFs for the drawings. Is there a good way to upload those? I did links in the past to free hosting sites for the drawings I did in the past but those free service links don’t seem to last too long.
Kinomat, the horn is grey, the lighting in that part of our shop is awful. I do have the original sled for the horn. There are a few cracks and chips in the horn but they look easy to repair.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
From the photos,the enclosure looks well made.You should try storing the LU 1004 cone down ( less chance of a tip over) also if the inner suspension is the old fiber
spider type - storing cone down reduces the chance of shop dust and or iron filings getting into VC gap.I am almost certain that LU1004 was made by Jensen - who also made for Western Electric, it has a ring type magnet & most times the plates were welded on. If electro/mechanically ok you have a Gem aprox 65 to 75 yrs old.
The frame/basket not a casting,so care has to be taken not to warp or twist, also cone especially outer suspension fragile,material tends to become sensitive with age
(aviod finger poking)Could you show picts of inner suspension in the next thread. "A great acquisition"
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Great photos, the LF speaker is just like I remembered, that cone is in remarkable condition, it has newer style inner suspension (corrugated) not older fiber spider type.I am curious to know if cone extrusion is the same when using a battery then reversing polarity.(Cone total out + same as total in -) It looks super clean,what's
the trick? Pity about broken HF Diaph. cover.Looks as though moisture may have got inside.Have you ever removed & replaced a diaphragm.... take extreme extreme
care.... screwdriver blade attraction into strong magnet field behind diaphragm.I am willing to help via phone,if you care just contact.
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
The horn pictured is indeed the urethane plastic model. These were painted gray, though the foamed plastic was orange. The example I have does not have the metal inserts at the stud holes, though I have seen others that did like the horn in the pictures. To the best of my knowledge these plastic jobs were produced toward the end of WWII when all available aluminum was being used to build airplanes. An old timer told me that these urethane horns were infamous for failing due to cracks. As an aside, I have heard of 415 field coil theatre woofers produced during this period developing cracks in their baskets. They may have been cast in some crummy pot metal at the time, again due to the aluminum shortage.
IPC/Simplex purchased tons of Lansing and Altec Lansing gear. They built projectors but supplied complete systems to theatres, obtaining components they didn't build themselves from vendors like Lansing, Altec Lansing and Jensen. This relationship extended back to 1937; I have a pair of IPC LU-1011 compression drivers that are really Lansing 285 models with the radial slit phasing plug. So far I have found four companies that bought and relabeled the Lansing/Altec Lansing field coil era components: RCA (USA), IPC/Simplex (USA), Raycophone (Australia), and AGA Baltic (Netherlands). There may be more, as every time I think I have seen it all something new pops up!
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
Some of the IPC LU-1004's that Marty has.Were definitely manufactured by Jensen under license from Western Electric.Probably right around or just before Altec came into the picture.
Marty does this look familiar ?
1940′s International Projector Corp. LU-1004
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Re: WWII 800 found in the wild
I can confirm the woofer is Jensen A15-PM which is the same as Western KS 12004 from the 753C I found this picture in an auction with the Jensen numbers on the KS woofer. The magnet structure on the IPC unit looks like that used on the A12-PM and the bracket holding the terminals looks like a Jensen transformer bracket from the same period. Too bad I don?t have a pair.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...004/A15-PM.jpg
