large or small format driver-and which horn?????

Hi Guys
I'm new here and loving the stuff I read so far-its great. Now I need help please

I want to set up the following:
*2 way system (Altec comp. driver mid/high + horn and TAD 1601A bass) for music video/dvd and movies mainly in a room about 15' wide x 24'long x 14' high(pitched cathedral ceiling)
*drivers must "fill" room with resolute sound
*crossover will be (anticipated) at around 600-800Hz, based on TAD 1601A needs primarily
*ultimate bass and treble frequency extension not absolutely critical, but would hope for resolute, quality sound in the 35Hz-18KHz-ish range

So with that, what Altec compression driver mid/high and horn options are best suited for this purpose??? I have my eye set on some of the bigger sectoral or multicell horns such as 511B, 811B, 1003B and maybe others. I have no practical experience with such drivers and horns, but do have listening experience with horns generally as in my main system. All comments from practical experience appreciated

Thanks
Alan

The 511,811, horns aren't Multicellular, they are Sectoral horns.Is the TAD 1601A the only driver you have at this point ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altec Best

The 511,811, horns aren't Multicellular, they are Sectoral horns.Is the TAD 1601A the only driver you have at this point ?

---

And they're not constant directivity, either........ only the Mantarays are correct?

Edit...... just realized the OP probably meant compression driver, not constant directivity.

Thanks guys. Yes I meant compression driver and sectoral (as well as multicellular) horn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altec Best

Is the TAD 1601A the only driver you have at this point ?

---

In answer to this. I have a main horn based system which I have put (am putting) together for critical 2 channel listening which I enjoy for that purpose. It is in a separate room to the living room I refer to in my initial post. This horn based system comprises GOTO, YL and TAD 1601A (x4) drivers in a 4 way active set up. I am looking to use the 1601A's in both set up's-ie. move them over to an Altec 2 way horn set up when I want to watch music dvds or movies in a bigger less intimate room as is described. Hope that tells the full story so that comment and assisstance to my question can be offered. Thanks

Alan

You sound like you are looking for a high performance solution.

Don't mess around. Get AlNiCo 288s and 1505s. HF EQ in the passive crossover.

You will need a tweeter to get more than 13k, if you care. I had JBL and Gauss tweeters and never hooked them up.

These will fill your room with resolute music. I think it is the best combo of ALTEC for home listening and well suited for the room you describe.

TAD woofer is a good stopgap measure but I like 416s. Don't be lured in the TAD midrange drivers which sound "impressive" but to an ALTEC lover such as myself they sounded fake, even though I tried again and again to like them.

I advise to skip all cast aluminum horns and go for the big multicells. I liked 1505s a lot better than 1005s. Sheet metal much more than tar filled.

When I ran this setup I was in a ten-year period of speaker nirvana and didn't even think about getting any new speakers.

I was constantly exposed to large WE setups that I thought were better, but with the 288/1505 I was beyond speaker envy.

I think WE594s on 26A horns are a 10, 288s on 1505s are at least an 8 on the cosmic horn performance scale. A score of 8 is hard to achieve. I can live with 8.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geekstar

You sound like you are looking for a high performance solution.

Don't mess around. Get AlNiCo 288s and 1505s. HF EQ in the passive crossover.

You will need a tweeter to get more than 13k, if you care. I had JBL and Gauss tweeters and never hooked them up.

These will fill your room with resolute music. I think it is the best combo of ALTEC for home listening and well suited for the room you describe.

TAD woofer is a good stopgap measure but I like 416s. Don't be lured in the TAD midrange drivers which sound "impressive" but to an ALTEC lover such as myself they sounded fake, even though I tried again and again to like them.

I advise to skip all cast aluminum horns and go for the big multicells. I liked 1505s a lot better than 1005s. Sheet metal much more than tar filled.

When I ran this setup I was in a ten-year period of speaker nirvana and didn't even think about getting any new speakers.

I was constantly exposed to large WE setups that I thought were better, but with the 288/1505 I was beyond speaker envy.

I think WE594s on 26A horns are a 10, 288s on 1505s are at least an 8 on the cosmic horn performance scale. A score of 8 is hard to achieve. I can live with 8.

---

1505's aren't that easy to find.This setup could be quite expensive.Western Electric's are even more expensive and harder to find.I would also go with the 416's too.GPA 416's you can get brand new.

The OP has GOTO and TAD...that stuff ain't free.

Saw a few 1505s on ebay for ~800 each. GOTO would charge that much for a speaker terminal (half joking--might get a pair for that).

Relatively speakering, 288/1505s are still a bargain and big bang for the bucks compared to import Japanese exotica.

Plus you don't have to worry about beating it with the next experiment to come down the pike. That is my main point.

The last pair of 1505's I saw sold for around $3 grand. A single throat 30166 just sold on eBay for a few hundred.. Just sayin....

Everyone on this board would love to own 1505's and 288's. I agree that they sound Fabulous.I'm still looking for a pair myself that I can find reasonable.

I may be poor and cheap to boot...but some people have money are are willing to invest a couple thousand in a horn/driver combo.

Even on ebay, you can do it for $3k.

Anyway, that is an ideal setup. ALTEC 8 or 10 cell horns are very good too, but not quite as good as the 15 cells.

'In for a penny, in for a pound', get 1803 with it's much better pattern control and ability to be XO'd at 300 Hz. Regardless, unless horn loaded, having only a single woofer/channel is the weak link.

GM

Great input Geekstar, Altec Best and GM

I have been reading frantically trying to narrow down the options within the original scope I outlined. There are so many options within the Altec cd driver and horn combos-at least in theory. I am gravitating towards the 228 or GPA399 too for drivers. I think that they might fit the bill so we can focus there for cd's. Tweeter can be considered later if at all.

So with the horns.....so many options again. I do want to cross over in the 500-ish to 800 range.
*So do I need a horn that will cross below 500, as is the 1505 and others?
*Also, very importantly, do these big multicells need 2 drivers per horn to load up properly, and will they sound anemic with just one driver per horn?
*Also read some of the big multi's tend to sound honky and horny. is that so? I dont really want that
*what about something like 511B/1005 or smaller than 1505? Geekstar comments on 15 cells being better than 8 or 10. 1505 sure are big!!
*then ther eis the 329A which seems to be a real winner with the 288, but is rare and can be pricey????
*what about bigger EV HR horns like HR 9040A, HR90, HR6040A, HR60. I seem to read good things about them on 288's. The glass EV's are readily available and relatively cheap. I like the look of the HR6040A and HR9040A

Any body got 288's or GPA399's for sale at the right price???
Thanks
Alan

One 288 is sufficient. Certainly not anemic.

Altec multicells do not sound honky.

511E is rare. 1005 is quite good but I found it to be a bit beamy. I'd use em though.

Not impressed with 329A...you can really hear the metal, I thought. Multicells are a lot more organic.
I didn't love any ALTEC cast aluminum horns but I might retry metal 32Bs if I find a pr.

Wondering about EVs myself...but note all of the above mentioned are CD (constant directionality) horns and will require EQ. Also, note the EV large format horns are 2" nominal throat(1.93"), Altec is 1.4".

Read this on EV CD horns:
Page Not Found

As suggested, 1803 seems a valid upgrade path from 1505s. Never had the pleasure myself.

PS: When we hear the tern "Altec cd" we think constant directionality horn, eg. Mantarays, not "Altec compression driver"

Quote:

---

Wondering about EVs myself...

---

HR-9040............

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/...%20drawing.jpg

Well, HR-9040 is the classic EV for 288s and it is 1.3" as the spec sheet indicates.

Why not 1.4"?

Jim Long wrote these up for Sound Practices...he liked em. I forget if he was using 288s or DH1012. DH 1012, as I recall had a fully aluminum diaphragm while the other large format (2") EV had a kapton or mylar compliance.

But all of this is getting off the tried and true ALTEC path to greatness and into a mix and match orgy of off-brand stuff.

I wrote a detailed lengthy reply then forgot to push "reply"....and lost it. So here is a shorter version

Thanks Geekstar
I saw that EV paper and Jim Longs Sound Practices review. That why I mentioned EV. They seem to have a following. Altec horns are much better looking with their industrial retro look. Fibreglass just doesnt cut it anyway

So multicells are oragnic sounding? And one driver per horn is more than enough? 2 must be phenominal?

So you would have me start with 1505's. I have seen quite a few 511B's for sale and even a 311-60

Thanks to all
Alan

I'm just saying that 1505s are where I'd want to get to.

I thought the 1505 had an open breathing quality that really lured me in. The 1005 was a bit more direct and insistent. Some people might like that intensity better.

With the two rows of cells, I thought I could hear a disjunction in the vertical axis when standing up from a seated position, for example. The three row 1505s seemed extremely consistent directionally and just a huge presence of sound. Relaxed and powerful.

Are you kidding, one 288 on a big horn is insanely adequate for any domestic application! If I turned up my 1505s and put on some Jimmie Vaughan, it sounded like I was at a blues club. It was audible for at least one city block. That's on a single 300B amp, most of the time.

I would steer clear of the cast aluminum horns for home use. Some people like the cast horns and if you have them use them, I guess, but I could always hear some ringing. 329A and 311-90 --never tried 1.4" 511s. I am extremely suspicious but I'd try them if I got a chance to do so at a good price. What the heck...

There is a wide range of quality in ALTEC. Some of it is truly great, most of it is fun but only solidly medium to upper-medium quality in the grand scheme of things. For example, I would not choose any the popular 811B/511B systems but I can understand the appeal. 288/Multicells are on a different level of performance, but also size and cost.

I would get 288s and any multicell: 805, 1005, etc. and start there.

Getting this stuff is a lot harder and more expensive than it used to be. Not many killer deals online...you have to pay the more or less going price. ALTEC is very popular worldwide now.

I think the upward price shift makes the multicells a much better deal than the big aluminum horns. 329As were cool when you could find them for $75 but i would not pay big cash + shipping for a pair.

This is all my opinion and a bit single-minded, but you asked for opinions.

There is one cast aluminum horn that blows my mind and that is the square tractrix horn from the Klangfilm Eurodyn. 2" throat. It is small and sounds fabulous.

Klangfilm Eurodyn field type driver kll 301

But that is off-ALTEC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geekstar

511B is rare.

---

Not rare by any stretch of the word. 511Bs are very common, but they're for small format drivers. If you mean to say the 511E is rare, that would be true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill

If you mean to say the 511E is rare, that would be true.

---

Of course, this is what I meant to say. Never saw a 511E in the wild.

I changed the reference. Thanks for pointing that out!

If money not at issue, 288H and 329A.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GM

'In for a penny, in for a pound', get 1803 with it's much better pattern control and ability to be XO'd at 300 Hz. Regardless, unless horn loaded, having only a single woofer/channel is the weak link.

GM

---

I agree with GM.. The woofer is the weak link.So one other thing to consider.If you plan to use large format you will need to use dual woofers or a woofer with a sub.Unless you can use a custom crossover with plenty of attenuation for the 288.The problem is the 288/1505 will be a lot more efficient than a single woofer and will play a lot louder than a single 416/515. I played around with this setup last year for a bit.I used a stock N501-8A crossover and it didn't provide enough attenuation IMO.With the crossover turned all the way down the 288 still drowned out the 416.It didn't blend well enough.A problem I'm trying to rectify with a new DIY with dual 416's.The stock crossover didn't pad the 288 down enough.If you can get the low end/crossover setup correctly the clarity is something to behold.They sound very nice.I can't wait to get mine done !

I also tried a 511E/288 with that setup and they sounded nice to me they also measured very well.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/04/1.png

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/04/19.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2010/09/47.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2010/09/48.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mraertex

The glass EV's are readily available and relatively cheap.

---

eh, maybe, maybe not. Shipping 9040's well/properly, might break the bank. The latter flat faced horns, less so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mraertex

*what about bigger EV HR horns like HR 9040A, HR90, HR6040A, HR60. I seem to read good things about them on 288's.

---

Be sure to double check the throat diameter and bolt circle.

The (or at least, my) HR9040 fit a 288, 3 bolt pattern, and proper throat. The others (though similar in name) are generally a larger exit, and drilled for 4 bolt drivers.

** Getting a 288 on a 9040 can be a PIA! The reinforcement 'ribs' of the horn, get in the way of your wrench. It's a real tight fit, and requires finagling a 30lb pendulum on a nearly 3ft wide, somewhat delicate, horn. Horn down (floor padded, and horn braced so as not to roll over) is probably the best approach I've come up with. Otherwise, a helper is helpful.

Quote:

---

.If you plan to use large format you will need to use dual woofers or a woofer with a sub.Unless you can use a custom crossover with plenty of attenuation for the 288.

---

One woofer is enough, at least I thought so. I recommend looking at the Hiraga A5 crossover article by John Stronczer that I published in Sound Practices when working with 288s and multicells. I think it is up on the web somewhere.

Here's the basic schematic. Big @$$ coils on the 16ohm version!
http://web.archive.org/web/200502060...s/HiragaA5.pdf

I had one 416Z per side in Onkens. It was just right. Definitely not thin. Yes, of course, you will need to pad down the horns!

I will confess that I am not a major bass freak and I find that really big bass causes a lot of problems in most rooms I have had the opportunity to take over with my audio systems. 35-40hz is more than enough for me.

But I would never try to talk anybody of of 2 x 416s!! That should be AWESOME.

Geez Greg, a man after my heart. 1803's with 288's remagged from GPA with an 8 ohm aluminum diaphragm. Sounds good to me. I only wish I had a room big enough to enjoy them.

Sigh, maybe after the lottery win. For now they are in storage. Still loved, but not listened to. :)

Yeah, I was thinking about your good fortune when I posted. I figured you used them on top of your 210s. Most folk's rooms are too small for 511s, so once inside the optimum distance, it doesn't much matter how big the horn is. Just sitting a 1803 on the floor and EQing it flat to ~150 Hz is a pretty exciting 'full-range' experience.

GM