ALTEC NORTHERN ELECTRIC 604 15" COAXIAL SPEAKER + CROSSOVER !! | eBay
how did this happen?
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/atta...1&d=1334622078
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Northern Electric was a Canadian WE affiliate and licensee...
i own northern electric 515b's..
Blame it on Canada. :)
Nice catch Tom.
It should say "Assembled in Canada" all the parts were made by Altec they (Northern Electric) just put them together AFAIK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
It just depends. Most things these days are not made in one country. Wager you are getting Chinese mags on your new GPA speakers.
There are legal stipulations about "percentage of work".
I recall the Taurus SHO engine in the 90's. Designed by Yamaha, cast in US, shipped to Japan for machining, then assembled in US. Made in USA.:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
I'm talking about this particular 604 in this thread. That is made by Altec Lansing and assembled by Northern Electric. Were talking about a speaker that was made in the 1940's.The Anti-trust lawsuit filed in 1949 forced WE/AT&T to sell it's stake in Northern Electric in 1956.At that point NE was forced to develop it's own products.In the 1940's-50's there were no Chinese parts that went into any of Altec's Manufacturing.For all intense of purposes,this is a 604-604B.With it's probable 20159 (paper surround) cone and the larger Multicell horn. In the 1940-50's is when America was truly an industrial giant.Not like today where there is a hodge podge of parts manufactured in many countries and assembled in who knows what country.So this speaker with it's very early serial I would say was manufactured in the early 40's :wink2: :p
Western Electric History
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALTEC-NORTHE...item27c5e6d640
AB I NEVER said anything about Chinese parts in that Altec. I have no idea why you even said that.
But if you put the definition on the Northern Electric then we have to call GPA speakers "assembled in USA". Many cones are Eastern. As are 98% of speaker mags. You can't turn being a purist on and off. I just think if it fit the legal definition of "Made in Canada" at the time of manufacture it is grandfathered. There is zero legal reason to call it "Assembled in Canada". I am glad you pointed out it's all Altec parts, although the history you referenced does not state that. Can we guarantee the adhesives and gaskets aren't Canadian? Or that other parts may have been ordered to spec? At this point we will never know why things were done the way they were. We can quibble for the next 20 years and get nowhere, or we can move on.
Was just wondering why you were bringing up Chinese mags on GPA drivers on speakers that are 60 years apart. That's all OG ? Just trying to stick to the topic, this Northern Electric 604.IMO I think that NE would have received everything they needed from Altec even adhesives.It most likely would have been part of the licensing agreement.If they used inferior products it could have had an impact on Altecs reputation.As Altecs name is still on the label. Could they have used other stuff ? Anything is possible.
Simple. You insist these aren't made in Canada yet where have you said anything about GPA not being US made?
GPA is US made. Parts of it aren't, you are getting lost in detail and sidetracks instead of the issue. I'm being clear, I never said the 604 had Chinese parts. But you don't read what is said, instead how you want to interpret it.
You can not have it both ways, but you want to. Where is your info from Altec made all the parts? Not on any of the thousands of pieces of lit I have handled. There are many twists and turns in history, not many straight lines.
The topic is do parts have to be made in a country for an item to be marked made in that country? You are the only one who left that topic. I just don't understand your point, I see none at all. If I'm missing please explain. Illustrating by example is not something I invented.
Altec and WE had cross licensing agreements where both parties could make things. What I suspect is WE tried to get out of the agreement with the US government by moving production of certain items to Canada, and that is likely why they had to divest NE. Altec and WE both made many items. You can usually tell WE made WE products from Altec made WE branded products, Altec cut more corners. I have seen Altec made WE's with 4 welds holding the mag, WE made ones usually had 6.
I wasn't talking about Chinese parts in that Altec.I was talking about this statement here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
I give up dude. Anyway, that speaker LEGALLY was made in Canada.
You ignored where I asked about your info source. I have strong doubts ALL the parts were made by Altec.
In the absence of a citation, I don't agree it's all Altec.
That's your opinion.Like I'm entitled to mine.Whenever someone else has a difference of opinion that differs from yours you get attitude.(Dude I give Up).I thought we were having a discussion.When I said the parts were made by Altec I was talking about the basket,motor assembly,diaphragm,Multicell horn,etc and then you replied with adhesives.And since when was Altec a big producer of literature ? Especially from the 1940's.For years in their flagship speaker (M19) and for one of their best small format drivers (802-8G) all they produced for it literature wise was "Tangerine phase plug driver". So we should all provide literature when we post to be fair. Correct ? :wink2:
You first qouted my post remember ? Not me qouting yours.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were made by Altec and Northern just slapped labels on them.Similar to what Heath and IPC did.
WHERE is ONE SHRED of evidence those parts were made by Altec? You are the one with the attitude problem. You presented your thoughts, likely wrong, as fact. WE had substantial speaker building capacity at the time I suspect they made the parts. I say suspect, you say WERE and just get louder when contradicted. You've been told you have an issue, but choose not to deal with it. Say YOU THINK not WERE. I'll say what I think and it's over. But you keep running sidetracks and ignore questions, then accuse ME of attitude? Please look in a mirror. Bottom line I was around this old stuff way more, till you give me proof I say you are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
"In the 1940's-50's there were no Chinese parts that went into any of Altec's Manufacturing."
"At that point NE was forced to develop it's own products."
Sure sounds like you said I was claiming Chinese parts in a 1940's speaker. Then you say you were talking about another speaker.
"The Anti-trust lawsuit filed in 1949 forced WE/AT&T to sell it's stake in Northern Electric in 1956."
Cut and paste.
"At that point NE was forced to develop it's own products."
Edited to fit your agenda you took out phone. Says nothing about speakers, at a link YOU posted.
They still could have made under license.
This is a WWII era speaker most American manufacturing was for the war at the time.
You are wrong on component issues. Using something like a cone to date a speaker is completely wrong, that cone could have been put in last year.
I say Altec was doing war contracts...they built a lot for WWII. Assembly requires jigs, if WE/NE went to that expense they likely had molds, or at least WE did. I still see zero evidence for your opinion. If Altec made EVERY part it would have been cheaper to use Altec's jigs and finish the job. Altec likely could NOT furnish parts.You could well be proven right, and had you simply stated Think instead of were, Then not went off on the Chinese 1940's tangent this would have been a much shorter thread. Please don't present your opinion as fact, and I strongly feel web quotes should be verbatim.
was thinking of you even before posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon
hence the capital 'C'
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what i'd like to know are the trivial pursuit stuff, like where/by whom these were made.
and why in the great white north?
maybe todd knows something he can relate.
or steve s.
amazing how many steps are involved, sometimes .Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
and strange money changing/weird pr stuff
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the next thing i saw on the internet after this was the 'forum-censoring-issue'
at a special interest community on hostboard
couldn't stop myself -
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f294...ing-issue.html
lets not forget the resources western electric had way before altec came to be. if ma bell was expanding into the great white north, why wouldnt they have manufacturing there as well
this is the most plausible explanation so farQuote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
I believe the thought about it being a wartime situation might be correct. I remember someone talking about that years ago, but I've slept since then...I also remember someone saying that there was a time when it was cheaper to build things in Canada than import them from the USA, but I'm not sure.
Oh - and I removed the clip of the girl in the car because:
1. We do have people who are underage that view our forum (main reason), and
2. It really was a bit "off-topic", meaning it wasn't Altec-related.
As far as the rest of the discussion is concerned:
Yes, today is a different world when it comes to manufacturing. Nothing that I know of is totally "Made in U.S.A." anymore. There are parts that are sourced from all over, but, as someone rightly said, there is a legal percentage of the sum total that has to be actually made in this country for them to be able to claim that.
As for the rest of this discussion, let's all keep in mind that we're all here to share and enjoy our love for Altec and Altec-related stuff.
I'll drink to that. Hope a club soda and fresh lime will suffice, don't do Demon Rum, have not for years.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd W. White
AB, if we got out of hand, please it's not PERSONAL. I apologize for any offense, but I expect nothing less if I post something wrong. And I have been caught at that before, remember.
Nortel: 1900 to 1939 | Nortel Networks Corporation. Strong US connection.
For not yet making it to Cal's summer Altec jamboree & beer tasting soiree .. in BC ..:mad:
OG I really,really appreciate that ! Thank You for your explanation ! That goes along way with me.... Thanks.. :smile2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
In my first post I posted AFAIK (As Far As I Know) which meant to me that I wasn't sure,or could be,maybe,I think, (I think) :p I'll try to explain better in the future. Have a Great Day !
Added: I tried to contact the seller to see if we all could get some manufacturing,date codes,numbers from the driver.But I have had no response unfortunately.Probably because the auction ended.If I hear from the seller I'll post those #'s.
All's well that ends well right?
In a case like that, just a suggestion- put the disclaimer first...ie " I suspect that xxxx" or "I think that".
I try to do that but at my age I would not expect consistency.
"I think those parts were likely made by Altec and it was just assembled in Canada" see how much milder it reads?
I do try to make sure, within human limits, to make sure we do info right here. At the risk of us all getting big heads, our membership is only a small portion of those who read and use the posts here.
Agreed......