Can anyone ID these drivers?
PAIR ALTEC LANSING MODEL 14 MANTARAY HIGH FREQUENCY HORNS AND DRIVERS | eBay
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Can anyone ID these drivers?
PAIR ALTEC LANSING MODEL 14 MANTARAY HIGH FREQUENCY HORNS AND DRIVERS | eBay
They are OEM 902's with just a loading cap no rear covers.
I agree. I own Model 14's and these look identical to the stock drivers in mine which are 902-8A with no rear covers so these are most likely the same drivers. Badtoby, if you're considering these for your Model 19's, I would recommend 802-8G's instead. I consider the 902-8A to be just as "great" of a h.f. driver as the 802-8G (I have 802-8G's in my 19's)-- both have phenomenal extended h.f. response and are very clean reproducers with excellent sonic characteristics/crystal clear sound but they do have a different timbre/sound/personality from each other. The crossover in your Model 19's was tailored/optimized to the 802-8G's characteristics (h.f. compensation, etc.) and there will be a substantial difference if you install 902-8A's into your 19's compared to the stock 802-8G drivers which were an integral part of their award winning design IMHO.....
So in simple terms, Altec threw away the award winning design when they switched to the ferrite drivers.
They made no change to the cabs or crossovers when they switched.
Pretty interesting huh?
That alone ought to slash the prices for the ferrite 19's.
Personally, I prefer the 902-8A HF drivers. They share the same lighweight diaphragm. I sold my -8G's.
Although these in this ad are the 902-8A, they aren't "good" unless you add the rear covers with felt lining and toss the loading caps.
You can find the rear covers from time to time. GPA will probably sell you some.
Ron
I'm not sure but I think you're being sarcastic? (hopefully I'm wrong) It's no secret that Altec was trying to save money towards the end, and the switch to ferrite drivers (as well as some of the other changes in the last few years prior to 1984) were cost cutting measures--not performance improving measures. Do you think the 416-8C was an improvement over the 416-8B or a less expensive woofer that still "worked" in the 19's?Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSS
Preferences are of course subjective--there is no right or wrong answer. However, to set the record straight here, in the interest of trying to keep this forum as factually accurate as possible, only the VERY early 902-8A's had the light diaphragms. The majority of 902-8A's that were manufactured did not. I have commented here before that I think the 902-8A/mantaray combination on my Model 14's is a "magical" combination that rivals the high end of my Model 19's. I really like the 902's as well. In the interest of being open minded I have no qualms admitting that I've never heard 902-8A's used with the 811 horns and the Model 19 crossovers. Maybe I'd really like them too--might be worth a try Badtoby. However, when I think of Model 19's, I think of the "classic" original award winning design. I own two pair of 19's and I wouldn't even consider changing a thing on them they sound that amazing now that I've replaced the original "worn out" caps. But that's just my opinion......Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSS
O.K. This is why I joined this forum. I am not a "techie" by any means. I am finally learning some of this stuff from the good folks here. I have owned many different pair of classic Altecs starting in high school because they sounded better to me than other speakers I auditioned-never really understanding why. I guess being a musician, I've always had a musician's approach to my speakers. Like when I go to the guitar store and play 20 guitars or 10 keyboards listening closely to tone and taking into account playability/practicality--walking away with the one that sounds the best to me without really understanding why it sounds the best. That's how I ended up selling/upgrading various pairs of vintage Altecs through the years and ending up with Model 14's and Model 19's--they sound the best to me. If I understand this quote correctly, you're saying that I can get my 14's to sound noticeably better if I toss the loading caps and add rear covers with felt lining? If this is true, I'm going to have to try it. Ron, thank you. I've read here about removing loading caps and putting felt on rear covers but never understood that it applies to my 902's. Can anyone else confirm that this would be a suggested upgrade for "stock" Model 14's with 902's like the one's in the Ebay ad in this thread (mine look exactly like those)? Here's some pics of my 14's.....Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSS
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/05/6.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/05/7.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/05/8.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/05/9.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/05/10.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/05/11.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/05/12.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/05/13.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/05/14.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/05/15.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2011/01/20.jpg
I was actually being serious. As I stated in another post, the -8C is a different woofer and has different T/S parameters. Therefore the box is no longer correct for it. The 19 was not voiced with the -8C.
With the exception of the diafragm and the phase plug, the 902 and 802 are different annimals. I have heard both on the 811 horn and I prefer the 902. I believe it is excellent. Not as sexy though, can't say alnico.
Was Altec being cheap? Not real sure. Alnico became non existant at the time, so I believe it was out of necessity. Someone can correct me if i'm wrong.
I for sure would have preferred alnico 19's, but I found mine local, just a few blocks away. Beggers can't be choosers. I do really like them, but the LF isn't what I think it could be.
I have 2 pairs of 902-8A and both have the lightweight frams. Also have a pair of little known 806 drivers with tangerine plugs and the same lightweight frams. As Jim Dickenson (Yes, the Jim Dickenson) told me back in the 80's, don't blow them up. They are no longer available!
Nice speaks! I have never heard those.
Actual testing has been done, and a lot of ears here prefer the drivers you have with the end caps and felt. I'll let others comment.
Loading caps originally were used to limit fram travel in high power applications. I suspect Altec did cheap out in this instance trying to keep costs down.
So VOTT, didn't catch your name?
Tried to do the quote thing like you did, I'm too f'n stupid to figure it out I guess. [/QUOTE]
FWIW, IMO&E 902 wins hands down for HF extension. The older style 802's with the annular slit steel phase plugs will render the most "seamless" transition at 500hz and 800hz XO points. Ironically, for my preferences, this leaves the 802G as the least desirable in terms of sonic performance. A little further irony, even though i own examples of all the small format Altec drivers and am fond of them all, i probably spend the most time listening to Renkus SSD-1800's which, IMO, have a combination of the best attributes of the 902, and early style 802 all done with a diaphragm that has a mylar surround but should not be confused with a Symbiotik Altec.
Note.....Renkus SSD-1800 diaphragms are no longer made, but if your quick......http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...MOqR8g&cad=rja
I think i still have one NOS phragm left somewhere, i bought 4 about 10 years ago from a mastering studio not too far from here that was also a parts supplier for the microphone and speaker repair industry. I've never needed a replacement, so ebay'd the others off here and there for "play" money. I've never really counted, but i probably have ~50 working Altec/Emilar/Renkus small format drivers floating around here. I've got spares to last the rest of my lifetime, or for as long as i can still hear, whichever comes first.Quote:
Note.....Renkus SSD-1800 diaphragms are no longer made, but if your quick.....
FWIW, a few years back a gentleman(who's name escapes me, apologies) posted here or maybe at AK or both who had worked with Jonas Renkus. I think our friend Steve Schell can fill in the blanks where my memory fails, as i believe this gentleman was staying with Steve at or around the time of his posting. he gave some great insight into the diaphragm construction, i think he helped Renkus develop the "tri-laminate" material that the phragms are constructed from.
Maybe some of the old posts have survived the various server migrations, i'll do some searching and see what i can find.
I've read here before in posts by Old Guy and others that removing the loading cap and putting felt on the back cover was an upgrade for home hi-fi use (if you're not looking for "high power" protection). I guess I never understood what a loading cap really was/looked like. I knew my 902's didn't have a back cover as was customary in Model 14's, but didn't understand that what they had instead was in fact a loading cap. If I had known that it was a loading cap then I may have been able to put 2 plus 2 together and realize that I could upgrade them by removing that cap and installing a rear cover with felt...... As far as Altec's motivations for using a loading cap on the Model 14's instead of a back cover, it may not have been entirely a cost oriented decision IMHO. One of the things they boasted about with the Model 14's was the power protection circuitry. It was something that the Model 19 and 15 (it's predecessors) didn't have. I think they may have been genuinely concerned that very powerful receivers and amplifiers were becoming popular for home stereo use--and the prices on them had dropped so a lot of "average Joe's" who weren't even "audiophiles" were using powerful receivers for their home stereos. Altecs, of course, were extremely efficient speakers that could easily be destroyed by a powerful receiver/amp, so I'm thinking the power protection circuitry and the loading cap both appearing on the Model 14 may not have been a coincidence. Just a theory, of course..... However, they could have included a loading cap AND a back cover so eliminating the back cover altogether did save them some money ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSS
As far as the transition from alnico to ferrite, I think I heard somewhere that alnico was much harder to obtain at that time (and was very expensive). However, I'd like to think that Altec may not have been (entirely) negligent in switching to the 902-8A and 416-8C without making any mods to the cabinets/crossovers in the Model 19. I would hope that when the 902-8A and 416-8C were in the design/development stage, their goal hopefully was to design ferrite drivers (replacement drivers for their alnico "counterparts") that would perform as well or better than their counterparts in the same/similar applications (possibly including working as well or better with the same crossovers/cabs/etc.). From what Ron and Bowtie are saying, maybe they succeeded with the 902-8A but were not so successful with the 416-8C? Just a theory again, and yes, I'm going out further on a limb with this second theory......
OK, you and Ron (who both seem to really "know your stuff") both prefer the 902-8A over the 802-8G. Do you guys mean the 902 with the light diaphragm, or with the 34647 diaphragm? Or do you mean with either diaphragm the 902's "beat" the 802-8G's with light diaphragms. I'm not sure when Altec stopped making the light diaphragm ( I read somewhere maybe here it was by the late 70's or 1980?), but by 1981 they had definitely stopped making them (maybe earlier). My Model 14's have AFAIK the original diaphragms with a 1981 date code that matches the year of the drivers and cabs, and they are 34647. Both pair of my Model 19's (from 1976 and 1978) have light diaphragms (23744). Anyways, I have said here before that the 902/Mantaray combination on my 14's rivals the 802-8G/811b combination on my 19's IMHO. However, even though they rival them, if I had to pick an overall favorite, it would be the 802-8G/811b combination. It sounds "warmer" to me for lack of more precise terminology. However, probably not a fair comparison as my 902's don't have a back cover with felt like my 802-8G's (and also don't have the light diaphragm that my 802-8G's have).Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
So, does anyone have some kind of description as to what kind of improvement I'm likely to hear if I remove the loading caps on my 902's and install rear covers with felt? Will it be like a toothpaste ad--will they be cleaner and brighter, warmer, or roll off at a higher frequency--any or all of the above? I'm seriously considering buying a used "early" pair of 902's with light diaphragms, and doing three experiments.
1) take their back covers and install them (with felt) on my 902's (in my 14's) after removing their loading caps to see how the sound "improves".
2) After listening to this upgrade for several days, then swap out the light diaphragms on the used 902's that I've bought with the 34647's in my 14's and seeing how that "improves" the sound.
3) Removing the 902's (now equipped with light diaphragms and back covers) and installing them into one pair of my Model 19's too see how I like them compared to the 802-8G's. If I like them better, I'll keep the used 902's I just bought--and start looking for another pair for my second pair of Model 19's. If not, I'll sell the used 902's I just bought but I will sell them with 34647's installed and loading caps, and keep the rear covers and light diaphragms for my Model 14's. I'd of course, be willing to sell them at a loss on Ebay or wherever to compensate for the fact that I bought them with light diaphragms and rear covers and sold them with 34647's (providing I like the light diaphragms better in the 902's) and loading caps without rear covers......
If I prefer the 902's in my 19's over the 802's, I know I'd have two pair of Model 19's that are kind of "Frankensteins" at this point--Ferrite 902's with Alnico 416-8B's, but I want what's going to sound the best and If there's a way to get not only my 14's to sound better but even my 19's, I'm all ears guys! (and thanks for any info/advice from anyone here). I'm thinking even if I replace the 802's in my 19's with 902's, I'll most likely keep the 802's so I can return my 19's back to stock down the road if I want to. However, if the improvement is drastic, I can't say I'd rule out selling the 802-8G's. I guess I'd have to think about it--how important to me is the ability to switch them back to "stock" condition--especially if the 902's end up being a significant upgrade in sound......
BTW, Badtoby, I feel like I'm hijacking your thread but since you already had the drivers identified that you requested, I guess this may be useful info for you too. If I do these three experiments (I most likely will soon--hopefully after getting a little more "infopinion" here), I'll report the results in this forum.
No foul here vott , I'am all ears too
"(who both seem to really "know your stuff")"
In my case, the word "seem" fits perfectly.
I only know what I think I know based on experience with the stuff I've had over the years.
Better HF for me is the 902-8A with LW frams over the 802-8G. Remember too that my drivers are all bug screenless.
Ruined them ough, as are my 19's because I'm an amateur modifier. I seem to remember reading that here recently......
I'll be interested to hear what you think when done with your experiments.
Ron
I just stay at one of those motels now and then.:DQuote:
(who both seem to really "know your stuff")
Bowtie, when you say that you prefer the 902-8A over the 802-8G, do you mean the 902 with the light diaphragm, or with the 34647 diaphragm? Or do you mean in your opinion with either diaphragm the 902's "beat" the 802-8G's with light diaphragms.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Also, does anyone have some kind of description as to what kind of improvement I'm likely to hear if I remove the loading caps on my 902's and install rear covers with felt? Will it be like a toothpaste ad--will they be cleaner and brighter? Or warmer, or roll off at a higher frequency--any or all of the above?
I don't remember hearing you or anyone else say that you ruined your speakers/drivers by removing the bug screens or remember anyone calling you an amateur modifier. I actually said that I'm considering removing them from my 14's since they're between the driver and the horn and can be relatively easily removed/accessed (and hopefully easily re-installed if I decide to). Especially since I always keep the grills on mine (except when listening to them) so I feel they have ample protection from dust and contaminants. I did mention that personally, I can't bring myself to take an exacto knife to my 802-8G's since that's apparently the only way to get the screens out of those. But if someone else removes theirs, I don't consider the drivers to be ruined (especially if they sound better without the screens).....Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSS
Well, i have to start by saying that the difference that i hear between the 23744 and 34647 diaphragms is NOT significant. My biggest attraction to the "light" diaphragms is in preserving the value and originality of the speakers i own that were originally equipped with them. I do use the lights that came in my 9849's since they have such low hours of total use. But the "lights" from my 604-8G's are shelved to be included in the eventual sale of the 604's. The 34647's sound "just as good" and allow freedom of worry about breaking a non-replaceable part.Quote:
Bowtie, when you say that you prefer the 902-8A over the 802-8G, do you mean the 902 with the light diaphragm, or with the 34647 diaphragm? Or do you mean in your opinion with either diaphragm the 902's "beat" the 802-8G's with light diaphragms.
Also, does anyone have some kind of description as to what kind of improvement I'm likely to hear if I remove the loading caps on my 902's and install rear covers with felt? Will it be like a toothpaste ad--will they be cleaner and brighter? Or warmer, or roll off at a higher frequency--any or all of the above?
To answer your question about the 802 vs 902 in simple terms, the 902 magnet/motor structure, and throat length and angle give a HF extension advantage regardless of the diaphragm used. I've never tried a "light" phragm in a 902, and since it was never a "stock" marriage i'm not inclined to venture down that path.
I think the 902 is best suited to XO's of 1200hz or higher, i haven't heard them in a system crossing them lower, nor would i run them lower myself. That said, low XO's are where the removal of loading caps and damping the covers really makes the most difference. At 1.2k or above, i'd probably just leave the caps in place. But, i encourage you to give it a try and see what your own ears say. It's an easily enough reversed mod.
Thanks! I may still try removing the loading caps even though my 14's have a 1500 hz crossover..... BTW, Altec Best (or anyone else)--I know you own a lot of drivers. Have you ever tried 902's in your Model 19's just for the sake of experimentation?
I'm keeping the light diaphragms in my 19's -- want to keep them all original and they sound so great "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"! I will probably still try installing the 902's from my 14's into my 19's just to see if I like the difference and at that point may have some decisions to make about possibly buying 902's for my 19's. BTW, RonSSS and the late Bill Eckle both seem(ed) to think light diaphragms were stock with (at least some of the) 902's at some point in time....Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Altec
The 35480 diaphragm is purported ( by some ) to be a new style equivalent to the older, "light-weight" 23744 . This ( 35480 ) diaphragm is typically found within 902-8B(s) under a loading cap .Quote:
To answer your question about the 802 vs 902 in simple terms, the 902 magnet/motor structure, and throat length and angle give a HF extension advantage regardless of the diaphragm used. I've never tried a "light" phragm in a 902, and since it was never a "stock" marriage i'm not inclined to venture down that path.
Numerically ( obviously ), it "seems" to follow the 34647 in the timeline , making it hard to logically pin-point when ( & why ) the 35480 was introduced .
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/03/2.png
:)
It's been my understanding based on posts here from Altec employees that production of the lights ceased around '78 or '79. It would certainly stand to reason that some early 902's could have been equipped with them. I've not personally encountered any that made it this far east.Quote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
Interesting.Quote:
The 35480 diaphragm is purported ( by some ) to be a new style equivalent to the older, "light-weight" 23744 . This ( 35480 ) diaphragm is typically found within 902-8B(s) under a loading cap .
Does this phragm have lead in conductors "under" the hub, and "push on" terminals?
Quote:
Does this phragm have lead in conductors "under" the hub, and "push on" terminals?
> Yes ( to both ) / plus the mounting ring is modern plastic ( ie; not phenolic ).
> The pic ( I posted above ) is the FR of "SkyWaves" 902-8B(s) which are loaded with 35480 diaphragms ( minus loading caps ) .
:)
Makes sense. My 902-8A's have a 1981 date code and the 34647's inside also have the 1981 date code. RonSSS, what are the date codes on your two pair of 902-8A's with light diapragms (and what are the date codes on the frams)?Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Great info--I'd never heard of that diaphragm. Sounds like we need a diaphragm reference chart for our library....Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl K
> Here's a historical tidbit .
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/05/1.jpg
> These tabulation blocks were guidelines for the employees winding voice coils .
> This enlargement ( taken from a tiny eBay pic ) was originally posted by a seller who was selling off her Moms estate ( who had been a long-time coil-winder at Altec ) .
> Hard to see , but with enough scanning of the middle guideline, one will see that the difference between the 21597 diaphragm ( 802-8D ) & the 23744 ( 604-8G ) was the presence ( or absence ) of the epoxy glue bead found inside the coil former .
> The 34647 ( in the top tabulation block ) , carried over this construction protocol ( of leaving out the epoxy bead ) .
:)
> BTW , that bottom tabulation block is build info pertaining to voice-coils for woofers .
The Quote thing... to obtain this separatationQuote:
Originally Posted by RonSSS
a) 'reply with quote' (this shows you the square brcket formatting)
b) chop it up into as many section as you like, whereby each section begins with QUOTE in square brackets and ends with /QUOTE in square brackets (the latter as seen peeking through in your post)
c) insert your comments, in between the sections, as this one is.
* You will see in the initial 'reply with quote' that it includes the user name and some id. e.g. =gearfreak;1837453 or =RonSSS;1837323Quote:
I'm too f'n stupid to figure it out I guess.
You can discard this if you like, or leave intact and copy as part of the beggning (no slash) quote in square brackets at each section.
I'll take one apart this evening....watch me be wrong! ha!
Oh, and what does the date code look like?
Ron
Hi fellas new guy here; love the message board.
Going by this objectively I have a graph at home that shows the 802 8G freq response to the very similar to the 902 w negligible Off axis spread in the upper freq. when I get home I'll post it.. Actually been a while since I last looked at it. Personally I don't the diaphragms in more recent models have any real difference. The old ones on the other hand is a rabbit hole one should be ready for a long free fall
Personally I like the 802 8G and that could be from my many years of guitar and using alnico pickups. Both are excellent drivers and one isn't really better than the other IMO . It's pretty much pick your poison.
Actually i think the loading caps serve a better purpose at Lower XO points.Especially at 500 Hz. Loading caps were designed to protect HF diaphragms at lower crossover points at High volumes.The rear covers and felt seem to have a smoother response IMO.I prefer the felt myself.Since I don't run my drivers at movie theater volumes for hours on end.They really aren't needed in my applications.The loading caps sole purpose was to protect the HF diaphragm from over excursion and damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Read Jeff Markwarts experiments on the loading caps. Altec Compression Driver Rear Loading Caps
Bowties advice here is all you really need.You can't go by other peoples opinions on how something sounds.You will have no better opinion on how something sounds than your OWN !!!Quote:
But, i encourage you to give it a try and see what your own ears say.
BTW- I personally like the 802G's better with my lite Frams !! But the 902-8A originals sound fabulous too.They are so close it could be a toss up.But in my experiments (blind) i picked the 802G's.. To each his own ! :p
My 19's came with Alnico drivers.The odd thing about my 802-8G's is they came with the old style round rear cover with the screw down terminals.And a white ink stamp of 033952.
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/05/20.jpg
Welcome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundown
I agree, I don't think you can go wrong either way.
Ron
More isn't always better. In this case it may be that the HF extension of the 902 caused an imbalance in the system to your ear that is more accustomed to the signature of the 802G. I've seen people have this experience in other situations.Quote:
.BTW- I personally like the 802G's better with my lite Frams !! But the 902-8A originals sounds fabulous too.They are so close it could be a toss up.But in my experiments (blind) i picked the 802G's.. To each his own !
Absolutely concur.Quote:
They are so close it could be a toss up
It cannot be over emphasized that we're talking about very small differences here..
I also want to emphasize that i do not dislike the 802G or think it is a bad or flawed driver. In the simplest terms it is my opinion that the earlier style 802's with annular steel phase plugs(damped cover, no loading cap) are capable of the smoothest 500hz XO transition(for some listeners the midrange performance at XO is what makes or breaks a loudspeaker), and the 902 has the best HF extension and long term magnetic stability of the small format drivers. While it's still an excellent driver, the 802G's most outstanding characteristic among it's peers seems to be it's market value.
OK, but why do you think it has great market value over say the 902 ? :Big smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
I think the market value is higher solely because of the alnico magnet. I also believe more recent 802 8G's high freq is on par w the 902; objectively. I hate to open up an old can of worms but I believe due to different magnets the 802 has clean mids and a soft top end while the 902 has slight muddy mids and sparkle top end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
Simple, the Model 19. Not only is the 19 one of Altec's best, it is clearly one of the best loudspeakers ever made. Nearly 30 years after it's production ceased it still stands strong and proud in the modern audio world. The introduction of the model 19 was also the introduction of the 802-8G and the Tangerine phase plug to the consumer audio world. The advertising was heavy and extensive, and IMO the value of the 802G is a direct result of it's success.Quote:
OK, but why do you think it has great market value over say the 902 ?
Check this thread at AK, the model 19 is mentioned specifically more than any other loudspeaker. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=442520
The 19, and it's components still have a strong demand in the marketplace 30 years later. Talk about a success story. Often folks request the cabinet plans so they can DIY their own. New facsimile/repro cabinets selling on ebay. A milestone on the audio timeline, and an icon in the audio world. Model 19, along with it's value, and the value of it's components is here to stay.
I don't know about "solely", but it is certainly an important piece of the pie.Quote:
I think the market value is higher solely because of the alnico magnet.
I can relate to this !Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundown
I personally find it a little odd that no mention of it's sonic qualities is made of the 802-8G but only of the model 19. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Isn't the long standing success and desirability of the model 19, and the high praise it receives for it's excellent sound, in so many words a testament of the 802-8G's excellent sonic qualities?Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
I mean, it(802G) is the heart of model 19's top half after all, and i am of the strong opinion that a 19 is NOT a 19 without it's 802-8G anymore than it would be without it's 416-8B.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Absolutely ! :wink2:
802 8G freq graph
What about with a 1200 hz crossover? Do you still prefer the older 802's in that instance or in your opinion does the 802-8G have just as smooth of a crossover transition at 1200 hz with the added advantage of better upper frequency response/tangerine phase plug?Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
I had a feeling that you'd tried 902's in your Model 19's. I figured with all of your drivers you must have a pair of 902's to "play with". I'm afraid that I'm so used to the sound of my Model 19's that if I do try my 902's in them, it will be hard for me to be objective. There's a strong possibility that any change in their sound will be perceived as "something out of place" to me since I've been listening to the 19's in their stock Alnico configuration for so long and they are pretty much my gold standard at this point. Kind of like what Bowtie said here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
I'll probably try it anyways after I decide what I'm going to do (if anything) about the loading caps/rear covers on the 902's......Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Great! Might help to determine when they stopped making the light diaphragms especially if your 902's are from 1979 for example and came with "lites" and mine are 1981 and came with 34647's could narrow it down quite a bit. BTW, pictures would be nice too if convenient. To answer your question, the date code is the six digit sequence on the diaphragm and somewhere on your 902 (location may vary). Vintage Altec date codes start with 391 but it's the three digits after the 391 that give you the date. For example, the date code on my diaphragms (see photo) is 391108. The fourth digit (1) is the last digit of the ear of manufacture (in this case 1981) and the fifth and sixth digits are the week of that year. So 391108 is the 8th week of 1981. My 902's (see photo) have a date code of 391112 which would be the 12th week of 1981. So, it looks like these are the original diaphragms for these 902's although I'm not sure why there's magic marker writing on them. Has anyone ever seen writing like this on Altec diaphragms or was this most likely done by the previous owner?Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSSS
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/05/9.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/05/13.jpg