Model 19 cabinet build - 2 sets

I currently have a set of Model 19's and love them so much I decided to buy another set of speaker componets and build myself a set of cabinets. I've built the Z19 Crossover for the current pair that I have and thought that this would be a good project for me to start on.

I ran across another local AUDIOKARMA guy (Brad) who also had the components and needed a set of Model 19 cabinets. I've got the wood working experiece, and expertise to build them but I needed an extra set of muscle to help in cutting the wood and I thought it would be a great experience so got together and started the projects. We've had a lot of fun doing this project and enjoying have a beer with Brad and creating these cabinets.

Here's the game plan:

Use MDF and finish with vener.
Use black vinyl covering for top front cabinet. Paint surrounding trim black
Build to spec - original Model 19 cabinets
Glue, nail and screw all pieces ( for 4 cabinets -70 pieces of wood that needed to be cut glued, nailed and screwed)
Build Z19 xover - install in original Xover cutout
Use foam inserts
Rollers on the bottom
Speaker connectors on the back (not on the bottom - per original specs)
Install Grills
Total expected cost is approximately $520 per pair. Not including Vener.

We should be finishing up here in the next week or so. Cabinets are almost done and I already started on the crossovers. Here are some pictures for your pleasure:


http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/10/1.jpg


http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/10/2.jpg


Brad is using 416 A's (rear mounting requried) and I'm using 416 B's which use front mounting. That's why the sets look a little different in these next pictures.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/10/3.jpg


A picture of the team after 5 hours of work last Saturday.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/10/4.jpg

More data to follow

Looks like fun guys. :) Enjoy.

Those are real beauties--nice job! What components are you using--alnico or ferrite? Brand new GPA or vintage Altec? Have you compared the Z19 to the original Model 19 crossover? Any comments as to audible differences or differences in how the two eq pots operate/interact with each other/affect the sound? Is the top (horn) compartment bolted to the bottom or is it permanently glued and screwed? Also, what are you doing for bracing?

All of the equipment that we're using in Alnico. 416a's, 416b's and 802-g's for the horn.

I've build a set of Z19's for the current set of 19's that I have. They took a while to break in but I like the sound enough to not have installed the orginal one's back in. The difference (to me) is not as dramatic as others felt but very slightly better. I've got some new hardware (mcintosh mc60's) and need to reinstall the orginals to see how they sound with the new amp.

The top horn is bolted to the bottom. Doing that per original specs.

For bracing, I've not done anything special as I'm building these per their original specs. I did add some additional backing blocks behind the front and back of the bottom cabinet for additional stabilization but nothing else.

Any recommendations on adding additional bracing would be appreciated.

Nice work Matt. You make it look easy. If I only had your skills. How much time do you have in them? If you don't mind me asking, what do you thank your cost will be when your done?

Probably 20 hours per person to date. Another 2-3 hours on cabinets and then I expect 4-6 hours total on the crossovers. Probably 30+ hours for me and another 25 for Brad. There was also some additional time in reviewing specs, etc.

Pricing - Cabinets, grills and xovers - $520. Vener (just bought 2 pieces of nice oak vener (4X8) for $140). 416b's I paid around $300 (new cones) and the 802-8g's were $250. Looks like the total will be $1210 for my set. All speaker componets are in excellent conditions.

Brad got a better buy on his 416a's so his pricing will be a little less than mine.

Enjoying the project with Brad and looking forward to having them complete here in another week or so.

I used to have a pair of 802-8G drivers. Now I have a fast Corvette.

I'm wondering why you didn't take the opportunity to mirror image the ports? That seemed to be something Altec could have done since these were sold in pairs.

Bracing is easy with 1x1's glued and screwed diagonally on the inside of the sides. The backs can be braced on the outside as can the bottom. Well, if you were using original looking bases. You have wheels so bracing could go on the inside. Of course bracing uses up a bit of the interior volume.

Another thing I did on mine when I worked them over was to use 3/8" bolts for the top, and added 2 from original. As well as used thin weather stripping between the parts. The original cabs were quite "leaky" in those areas.

Ron

Thanks Ron for selling me the 802-8G's & the 416's - you rock. Are you saying you take them back for the vett? :)

Never thought of mirror imaging the port holes - good idea. Internal bracing might be an potential issue with the woofer and xover network (Z19 is longer than standard 19 xover). Once I get the componets installed, I'll install the back last and see what I might be able to do. I will caulk all of the pieces of wood and have some weather stripping that I was going to use on the 811b's.

The tops will be connected with 2 4 inch 3/8 bolts - are you recommending to install 4 instead of 2? Might be a good idea.

The bottom base and casters will be installed tonight.

I think I'll hang onto the Vette, it is very fun to drive.

I used 6 bolts. So added 2 ea front side and back side. Maybe overkill. But the factory 2 bolts made no sense to me.
Your MDF might not need side bracing. The back yes, but as i said, you can do that on the outside with nicely cut 2x4's.
Give em the knuckle rap test! Thud is good, bonk is bad.

Good looking cabs, nice job!

I did the same with the extra bolts. If you hold a flashlight inside of the originals, you can see the beam clearly through the gaps between the top and bottom boxes. I put a bead of caulking around the joints as I don't plan to disassemble mine.

Here are a couple of additional pictures. We installed Brads 416a's as they are back mounted and now was the time to do it before we installed the front piece.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/10/5.jpg


The bases are 17X26 and are centered in the bottom. I got the coasters (2.5 inch height) at Harbor Freight and they cover the 2 inch base perfectly. Glad to have them on as now they are easier to move.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/10/6.jpg

Here are pictures of the backs and the bi-amp speaker connections.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2012/10/7.jpg

I counted the number of screws per speaker (all counter sunk) - a total of 82 per speaker.

Working on crossovers today (one is complete) and then we start the vener process.

This is fantastic work. I Would love to be a part of such a construction project...

Hi,
Very good job.

St?phane

Very Nice work !!

I was out of town last week but did make some progress last night. I did finally complete all of the xovers and got them installed temporarily to make sure that they work.

I did have an initial problem as I forgot one of the ground wires. Additionally hooking up the xover structure (lpads, L brackets, wood, connectors etc.) took a little longer than I thought. A couple of beers and some tunes in the background helped the process go smoothly.

Brad is using a pair of 16 ohms 416a woofers on his speakers so the crossover was a little different for him.

Here is a picture of the two different xover networks completed.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/10/11.jpg

Brad completed the internal wiring last week so I was able to install all of the crossovers last night and they all worked perfectly. Here's a picture of them being broke in as I've been running them all night long.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/10/12.jpg

Brad is going to use a black front and I'm going to use veneer for the front. We both should be starting the veneer process in the next couple of days.

The building is over and now the final finishes need to be completed. I'm going to document the construction of the Z19 supporting hardware a little more as I think that I've got a decent process down and it may help others on their Z19 build.

Very clean XO work.
Are you dampening the horns?
Impressive build - wish I could come by for a cold one and a sound check!

I sprayed some rubberized paint on the horns and they sound "deader" than before. I will also insert some foam surrounds around the horns to help.

Will be interesting when you get both sets done for comparrisons. I'm betting those 802-8G drivers have the bug screens removed....someone told me that.

I'm not keen on breaking things in, but am wondering how you are doing it? Pink noise? Music?

I personally think damping the horns even more is beneficial. Something to consider for later. I also really like mine with the center dividers removed, but it takes balls to try! Ok, well not really, but you can't go back once done.

What are the claimed improvements with these crossovers? I have heard of them, but never studied the details.

You are doing very nice work, keep it up guys!

ron

It's been a couple of weeks since we posted last and we getting closer to the finish.

All of the Z19 crossovers have been installed and tested and they are working out just fine.

We decide to build the 811b foam surrounds. I was able to duplicate a pair that I purchased from the web. I ended up going to JoAnne (fabric and linens) and buying some 2 inch foam. I ended up cutting it all with a electric carving knife and it worked out pretty good. Total cost $22 versus $120 for 2 sets. It took a lot of paint to cover them but here's a shot of one set. They are actually a lot straighter than they look in the picture.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/10/21.jpg

I'm ending up veneering my speakers and Brad is veneering a portion and painting the front and back. I'm using quarter sawn red oak for this project. The veneering project hit a little bit of a road bump as I was using a method of gluing the pieces individually, letting the glue dry and then ironing the pieces together. This provides some flexibility in reposition the pieces if required. I was about 1/2 done with my set and called it a day. They looked good but I was concerned that they would not stick. I went out the next morning and was able to pull all of the pieces off. I don't think that I used enough glue.

I was done with this process and moved to using contact cement - all went fine after that. Some additional sanding, plenty of trimming and making sure that it all fit together as perfect as possible.

The staining is complete (with my speakers - Brad will do his this weekend). I've started the clear coat process using a wipe on urethane and have two more coats to finish.

After that it's speaker grill installation and then we should be done.


http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/10/22.jpg

It kind of a dream come true to create a set of Model 19's from scratch. It's been a good learning experience and I've enjoyed my time with Brad, having a beer, smelling saw dust and making a piece of art (I hope).

Wow--amazing work Matt! I'm looking forward to your listening impressions once you have everything finished and installed. I'd also love to hear the results of an A/B comparison between your factory Model 19's and your new custom built pair-including any audible difference between the Altec crossovers and the Z 19's/any comments as to audible differences in how the two eq pots operate/interact with each other/affect the sound? According to Zilch, his design allowed the two pots to operate more independently of each other i.e. moving the mid pot supposedly has less effect on the highs than with N1201-8A's...