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I was reading on the klipsch board a discussion about A-7's vs. klipsch La scala's and was wondering about the accuracy of some of the information. It seems that some of the posters who have heard these units preferred the La scala over the A-7's which I found suprising.... Also one comment that Altecs were used by bands who couldn't afford JBL's. Also A-7's which were designed for theatre use behind screens, are not suitable for hi-fi use. Any truths here??? Thanks
Sometimes, when you arrive at the realization that your life long sweetheart is actually an unscrupulous promiscuous floozy who's quite literally serviced the entire varsity football, baseball, and basketball teams in a single season, your only consolation is to willfully disrespect and rumor horrible lies about the "nice girls"............................................ so to speak.Quote:
Originally Posted by juniper
Some truth but it's all heresay for the most part. Lascala speakers have a lot more top-end treble and go a little lower from the few pairs I've heard. But they do NOT have the midrange magic that A7 or any other Altecs had. The Lascala is a 3 way design not a 2 way like Altec A7s. The Klipsch use an Eminence woofer and most an EV T-35 tweeter. I think the only Klipsch made driver is the midrange (maybe?). If you read much on the Klipsch forums; you'll see that a LOT of people change the stock midrange from the Lascalas. Also there's a bunch of people putting Altec 511 and 811 horns in place of the original Klipsch tweets/midranges. Why would they do that if Altecs are not as good??? I don't know about the Altecs being more affordable or being the poor mans choice over JBLs either. Neither one was cheap in their time by any means. They were top dollar and ultra hi-quality; Altec & JBL were at the top of their game. Yes, A7 speakers were meant for theaters behind the screens; how do you think they got the name "voice of the theater"??? What they aren't telling you is that the Klipsch Lascala speakers were also designed for about the same reasons; for PA or vocal reproduction and then later refined somewhat for more hi-fi use. Altec A7 speakers are perfectly suitable for hi-fi with minor adjustments to the original design. One is to make the port smaller to extend the lower bass more. Others brace the cabinets more and also rework the original crossovers. Then there is people like me (I have 2 pairs of A7s) that have only unhooked the original crossover and bi-amp them using 2 amps (1 for tweets and 1 for woofers) and then I use an electronic adjustable crossover. This was a big improvement to me. A lot of people think that stock A7s have way too much midrange and I think so too. That's the way they were designed; for long distance vocal intelligibility. Think movie dialogue, etc. But the midrange extreme can be tamed and they can sound REALLY hi-fi if setup correctly. They like big spaces and sound the best in a bigger room. Hope this helps. This is only my opinion. It's all relative and there's always tradeoffs; just the way it is. What one speaker excels at, another fails at and vice versa. I'm sure others will chime in soon. I love my Altecs and everything about them, including the shorcomings and what they excel at too. The benefits of them FAR outweigh their weaknesses. Have a good one.
I found the sound of La-scala's painful.
And who really cares what the Klipsch crowd thinks?
Ron
I agree also; what does it really matter? Especially if you like the sound of Altecs. I know I do!!!
I'd pick up the flag for Altec in that battle, but A7s would not be my first choice unless the only choice was between any Klipsch product and the VOTs.
People who have done their history homework know that Paul Klipsch listened to Western Electric and sold Klipsch gear to the mullets. Think PWK used those cheap-@$$ toy drivers when he had WE713s and WECo field coil gear?;)
But Klipsch lovers and A7/511/811 lovers are OK with me, as long as they are having a good time. What people do behind closed doors is their business...as long as I don't have to watch!
I heard some Lascala's once, Given that Metallica was playing and I was 5 feet from them when they guy cranked them to slightly beyond deafening, They were impressive, But so are my Altecs. And given that there is no way to tell what the settings were where they listened to the A7's It's pretty much a wash. Could have been in some friends 10 x 12 bedroom for all we know.
Giving credit where it's due, PWK was an excellent businessman. He obviously put a high priority on high sensitivity, and this seems to be the chief design goal of his heritage creations with high profitability bringing up a close 2nd place. He used fairly mediocre drivers in cheaply finished enclosures and has been met with fairly continuous success for over half a century.
For me personally, i find the "cupped hands" sound of the midrange and "cheese grater" harshness of the T-35/k-77 nearly offensive across all the heritage models. However, some folks have found amplifiers whose weaknesses and shortcomings seem to offset the caveats of the heritage systems. Matching complimentary caveats is a path i choose not to follow in audio. YMMV.
Hah!Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
The K-55 is an Atlas driver, 1 3/8" threaded connection.Quote:
Originally Posted by hemicuda
The LS midrange horn is designed/used for 400hz cutoff.
And of course the LF is a folded horn.
I've had both, kind of apples and oranges IMO. You can actually transport an LS, or LS split, in many cases where you can't an 828 cab.
Of all the PA/SR/whatever boxes I've had, (not in the business, but I've had a few), the Klipsch units had the best fit+finish of any of them, and were build like tanks. I have a healthy respect for their craftsmanship.
Klipsch IMO are essentially just an enclosure maker... All drivers are made by other companies AFAIK (Eminence,Atlas,EV,etc)... Klipsch makes their own cabinets and crossovers,that's it.. The K-horn and the LaScala's I didn't like too much..Too much high end... The only Klipsch I ever liked were the Cornwalls and IMHO are the best sounding out of the bunch.. But they aren't no Altec's !!! :biggrin2:
I still own a pair of Cornwall II's. Haven't gotten around to selling them yet...:cool:
It's sooooooooooo critical that the K-horn is properly placed/fitted in the corner, it makes them or breaks them where the bass is concerned.Quote:
The K-horn and the LaScala's I didn't like too much..Too much high end...
There's a fella a few mountains away who runs 288's on Edgarhorns(i think) on top of K-horn bass bins, it's the best sounding stand alone 2 way system i've ever heard. His K-horn bins are gasketed to the wall with foam weatherstripping and bolted in place, he says it was necessary for consistent performance.
As my friend, the late Dr. John K. Hilliard like to say, with an impish grin when referring to the the Klipschorn, "If you listen closely, you'll find it not only (frequency) doubles - IT TRIPLES!"
They're nasty sounding things, in my opinion....
I thought Klipsch was how people with a speech impediment (like Sean Connery) pronounce the word "clips" (as in "This crummy speaker clips when I listen to music through it!"). ;)
Hahahah! Letsch lishten to shome shound klipsch on thish shilly shpeaker from Arskanshaw...
If my stock A7-500s were any indication of how most of them sound, they Klipsch guys are not far off. They sounded dreadful to me.
Once the box was reinforced, the port size reduced, the crossover redesigned, then they started to sing. Stock, no way.
That said, I don't think the Klipsch have as much room for improvement. The Altecs certainly do now run rings around other speakers. A lot of old sound guys shake their heads when you mention the A7. Maybe with good reason. P.A. it was, Hi-Fi it was not.
As said, Klipsch is an enclosure maker. He made his living making cheap speakers sound good. I don't think Atlas OEM's any more, the mid production was transferred to EV for a bit, not sure now except a lot look Chinese. Wasn't always that way, early on there were WE loaded Klipschorns. The La Scala is very "shouty". So are stock A-7's. But a finely tuned A-7 wil humble a La Scala no matter what you do to it. What's the old proverb "Can't polish a ----".
If Klipsch are so great BTW, why so many threads on the net about changing out the crappy mid?
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/10/13.jpg
My vote for favorite vintage album cover-
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/10/14.jpg
I looked for pics of a WE loaded Klipsch, couldn't find. I know they exist, have seen them. Did run across this. Brociner was a Klipsch licensee... might make an interesting project...
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/10/15.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/10/16.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/10/17.jpg
'Cause they are crappy. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
That corner horn does have amazing output.
OG, In PWK's 1950s articles in Audio discussing the Klipsch midrange horn you can see his WE713 driver on the horn. Think he was using those junky OEM Klipsch drivers?...no way, Jose! WECo baby!
I seem to recall late-50s articles about upgrading to Atlas mid-drivers. Anybody know what 50s K-Horns shipped with if that is the case?
I may be wrong but I thought the Khorn was designed for home use while the A-7 was a commercial product used in movie theaters. as a resullt the A-7's have to be modified for home use. How would the Khorn campare to, say, the Altec 19 in a similar home setting????
Years ago, at an AES convention in Los Angeles at the L.A. Downtown Hilton(long gone, demolished to make way for newer buildings), I had the opportunity to meet PWK. I even got one of his yellow "BULLSHIT" buttons from a big glass bowl. I saw a beautifully finished Belle Klipsh(similar to the La Scala, except the Belle used hard wood veneers. Belle is the name of PWK's wife.).
I read a story in Audio magazine(I no longer have that magazine), but I think PWK designed the K77 mid-range horn, but it was manufactured by Atlas? PWK was a prolific inventor, he holds several pattens, but not in sound.
What bugs me about the Klipsch speakers is way they orient the EV T35 tweeter. EV recommends a vertical orientation, and Klipsh uses a horizontal. I listened to the EV T35 way back then, and find that it lack highs, so for a few dollars more I bought the EV T350 heavy duty tweeter. I believe back then the T35s go for $50 each, and the T350 were like $75. The JBL 075s were $125 each. I THINK the newly introduced JBL 077 were $150.
The Magnificent was for home use. A 19 is smoother sounding, the Klipsch more efficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by cls500