Look to be in VG condition...
Western Electric KS12046
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Look to be in VG condition...
Western Electric KS12046
Wow, those look great! I had a single, but the cabinet was not in that kind of shape. The label on mine looked different too...... smaller maybe?
Nice collectors item. I guess that Homecraft Mfg was who WE outsourced the cabinet construction and final assembly to?
Given the prices that 755As seem to be commanding, I wonder why GPA doesn't try manufacturing new ones? Or is the secret recipe lost forever?
Very nice in original boxes as well.Looks like the cabs were made in Newark,NJ.
Line Magnetic is doing repro WE stuff, including a field coil 755 - LM Audio 755EXQuote:
Originally Posted by wws944
http://turned-onaudio.co.nz/speakers...agnetic-audio/
755 EX driver is a faithful reproduction of the 755a in every way but two: Its nominal impedance is 8 instead of 4 ohms, and, instead of a permanent magnet, the Line Magnetic 755 EX uses a field coil
The 755 I's aperiodic enclosure is constructed entirely of plywood, the heaviest panel being a central baffle that's rigidly fastened to the inside front. Within the cabinet is an extra pair of sidewalls, positioned to leave narrow gaps between them and the outer panels; on each side, those gaps are open to the larger volume of air inside the cabinet through only a single small vent, and to the outside of the cabinet through a trio of narrow vents. The inner surfaces of all panels except the front are lightly damped with thin, woolly pads.
Full range of gear - Line Magnetic Audio
That is a hellva pretty cabinet!Quote:
Originally Posted by gortnipper
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/11/68.jpg
Wow! Yeah, beautiful.
Yeah - so is this!Quote:
Originally Posted by Panomaniac
Beautiful. But I am having a hard time getting my mind around $9K for a pair (?) of reproduction PA speakers...
They sold new, in the 1963 Altec catalog, for 30 bucks retail. A 605A was $168.
with still about a day left, those WE KS14703s are climbing like crazy. Looks like they may sell for more than the repros...
The boxes actually say KS-12046 loudspeaker.. And on the speaker itself they say KS-14703. Now is that the number for the cabinets ?
I think the seller is incorrect. The WE 755a was first, then that speaker. Both predate Altec labeled 755A I THINK. Please take all this with a grain of salt as have not thought much about this since 40 years ago.
The early 755A is silver color is it not? Grey is later?
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/11/73.jpg
Likely A. That is the cabinet number. or B. That is the assembly (cab and speaker).Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
I thought that the WE KS-14703 was first and then the name change to 755A and then when Altec came a long they just continued the 755A.. I don't know enough about these drivers (WE KS-14703) though.. So will defer. You could be right that the cab & speaker maybe the KS-12046
I did call another retiree who worked for an Altec contractor, same one as I did early on. He agrees with me, there were silver 755A, around 1946. Gray ones are newer. He says KS-12046 is the cabinet number. That is essentially a gray 755A renumbered. They were made by Altec and branded WE. Within a year or two after came the Altec branded 755A, 1954-55 or so, he was not sure of the year. But the eBay ones are LATE WE labeled units made by Altec. They are NOT early WE 755A. They are early 1950's units (51-52) made by Altec. I would assume identical to Altec 755A, but neither he or I know this for sure.
I looked all over the pics for an EIA code. WE is 336. No luck. I'm assuming the numbers stamped on the gasket are serials.
EDIT- searching for WE lit ran across this... grain of salt warning- do not know the source personally. The poster seems to have English as a second language.
"WE755A was introduced by Western Electric in 1947. It is an 8 inches full range speaker with frequency range from 70 – 13,000 Hz with maximum capacity of 8 watt at 4 ohm in voice coil impendence. It only has very narrow angle distribution at 70 degrees (I believe this is reason of concentration on tone) and Western Electric suggests user to apply 2 cu ft closed speaker enclosure for this driver.
The Western Electric 755A is designed for PA and monitor purpose. The early version is in zinc plating at silver colour and the later period with gray navy painting. During late 40 – early 50’s, they were usually equipped on train, train station, business building, record studio and radio station as broadcasting monitor. During late 40’s, the major competitors of full range speaker on PA market included Altec 400A and Jensen P8P.
Honestly speaking, WE755A has much better construction than both models included special curve design of paper cone, large size U shaped Alnico magnet and much bigger voice coil construction…! Since the Western Electric sound equipment department was forced to close down by US Goverment in 1949, the production was passed on to Altec in 1950. The early period Western Electric KS-14073 was actually produced by Altec from 1950 – 1953, this version has silver colour painting also with same specs as 755A.
In 1954, Altec first introduced the Altec 755A to the market, the early version with glossy gray navy colour, but late period with brown navy colour. I believe the early period from 1954 – late 50’s should be in 8 Ohm and late period until early 60’s is 4 Ohm.
In very early 60’s, the Altec introduced Western Electric 755B with blue colour painting at 8 Ohm, but this model did not last long than it replaced by the Altec 755C “pancake” speaker in slightly later period of early 60’s with metallic green colour at 8 Ohm. If you look at the front, there is almost no different than 755A version, but if you look at the back than you can see this model no longer using Alnico magnet but replaced by flat ceramic magnet (Indox V) just look like a pancake.
Even Altec claimed 755C has better extension of both end from 40 – 15,000 HZ, but the guess dropped to 9,000 guess if compared to 755A above 10,000 guess. You can easily tell that the mid-range of 755C is not concentrated and transparent as 755A, the tone balance step down to be much thicker and lower bass than 755A but not as clear and open up as 755A…! Believe the angle distribution changed from 90 instead of 70 degree also affect the concentration as well…!
I would say that Altec 755C cannot be claimed as a full range speaker but it is a very good mid/mid-low range speaker in my limited understanding. The final version is Altec 755E introduced in 1968, it is very similar as 755C but the painting changed to white and gray, but also have different construction of wire connector. The sound characteristic of this model is very much the same as 755C, but the bass sound slightly solid and slightly upward than 755C and it still does not have clear and balancing tone as 755A"
Also found this-
http://www.preservationsound.com/?p=2396
And a REAL early 755A...with inspection form to prove it, 1947. Note, as said. early is silver, gray is later.
http://www.hifitown.com/index.php?di...oduct_id=29923
While it does nothing to help with specific dating, you can always tell the difference between the WE built and Altec built 755A's by the number of welds on the magnet pot, WE's have 6, Altec built units have 3.
Pardon my kicking myself. Thanks Bowtie. I should have remembered. That confirms BTW the eBay units are later, not early, and made by Altec.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
I am in awe of the depth and breadth of your knowledge sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
You give me too much credit, but thank you. For me it's(Altec) passion driven, and having a photographic memory doesn't hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien_Shore
I owe a great deal of my knowledge to this board, and at least a couple handfuls of folks just like those who make up this little community, some fairly local, some half a world away, and sadly some who are no longer with us.
US$10,099 and they could have been yours.....
ouch.Quote:
Originally Posted by magnarc
ouch.
I should have remembered that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnarc
Moments like this where I wish still had the 26 755A's pulled from a downtown hotel that was demolished in Columbus back in the late 70's.
I try to sort through the 755A variants here:
Junkyard Jukebox: WE/Altec 755A: You pays your money and takes your choice
The KS spec label on that silver gray hammertone Altec produced 755 signifies something like "8 inch speaker with xxx frequency response." Any speaker that meets the spec would qualify. That same number is used on 755Cs for the Bell System. I have also seen Jensens with a KS decal in the past and I'm wondering if that is the same KS number as well.
Those WE wall cabs are beautiful but a total waste of what is one of the best full range speakers ever produced.
--------
As forMy junky 1998 Volvo is a faithful reproduction of a 2012 BMW 750 except that it is not a BMW and it is not a 2012. Both have four wheels so they are pretty close though.Quote:
755 EX driver is a faithful reproduction of the 755a in every way but two: Its nominal impedance is 8 instead of 4 ohms, and, instead of a permanent magnet, the Line Magnetic 755 EX uses a field coil
How can a field coil unit be a faithful reproduction of an AlNiCo driver?
The 755A has a very flat impedance curve, thanks to low vc inductance I think...I'd need to see the 755EX curves to know how they compare.
I'll be putting up a selection of 755A sweeps soon.
Also, the cone paper in the original 755A was dual thickness very rigid stuff. Later 755 A and C/Es were slightly different, not as stiff. Several attempts were made to reproduce the original recipe in Japan and they failed.
The Chinese speaker looks like a cool unit but it has nothing to do with the original 755A
Very much looking forward to seeing that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekstar
We've discussed odd Altec variants...so made me chuckle to read-"Some silver Altecs have the old style decal pictured above
on the gray wrinkle unit. It seems Altec never threw anything away.... "
I was thinking of those same discussions when I wrote that!
I have seen a lot of variants in old ALTEC but a new one would never surprise me. Particularly on the internal OEM stuff, sometimes it seems like they were trying to clear out the warehouse.
Waste not, want not.
These speakers couldn't have been that expensive to make - since they were only selling for $30 each when new. If they sound that great, it still seems astonishing to me that no one has bothered to make modern clones. (At reasonable cost, that is.) Either that, or there really are better sounding 8" speakers these days...Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekstar
The ferrite 755C probably wouldn't be too expensive to remanufacture, but it is also nothing special. The 755A is the magic version.
The Alnico 755A used a chunky 3 lb.+ cast donut of alnico...I'd guess the magnets would cost well over $100 in quantity, maybe a lot more than $100 in any reasonable quantity relative to demand. Raw Alnico V is over $30 a pound these days from what I've read recently.
The cone of a 755A is also deceptively complex. Supposedly high silk content fiber mix, variable thickness, with a center compliance....would probably be expensive to tool up to make these too, if appropriate machines still exist.
Reproducing complete 755As and spare 755A cones has been tried in Japan in the past, with disastrous results.
According to my Japanese expert friends from Western Sound Inc., the 755C cone is different in a number of ways from the original run WE 755A cones and sounds nowhere near as good. These guys have worked with 1000s of 755As and repair them all the time. They demonstrated to me how the later cones are softer and less rigid than the original A cones. Put a C cone on an A and it sounds like a C, they say.
The 755A is a speaker that is more than the sum of its visible parts. Yes, there is a lot of hype about it, but much of it is justified...even though the totally crazy prices are hard to swallow. I never heard anything else like a 755A.
They were a lot more fun when they were $5 to $100, instead of $1000 -$3000 each, though!
back when these were made,Quote:
Originally Posted by wws944
federal minimum wage was 75 cents an hour. (1955)
by 1965, $1.25.
dollars then vs. dollars now ...
i'd have to disagree about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekstar
(though i suspect the 'A's to have more/better resolution)
i had 4 per channel, on an open baffle.
6.5 or 7 feet high, two feet wide.
lo powered 6L6 tube amps.
j-fet pre-amp.
except for the beaming,
they sounded much like the 1989/90
martin-logan cls.
--------------------------------------
i'd left a space for tweeters, as i have still several of these -
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2012/12/12.jpg
this is the Polydax / Audax HD13D34H.
these have an acceleration factor of more than 7500 meters per second.
if your amp/electronics can keep up ...
I found some specs on the 755A. Looks like it has 1.3 lbs of Alnico:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...755A/page1.jpg
and:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...755A/page2.jpg
Googling around, here are some modern full-range drivers that make many of the same claims. He has a choice of ferrite, Alnico, and neo magnets. A big difference is that they use whizzer cones w/phase plugs instead of biflex cones. He is asking $500/pr for the 8" Alnico model:
CommonSense Audio
Did the 755A (or C or E) have the traditional Altec edge-wound voice coil?
An exceptional tweeter. Westlake used them in my BBSM-10's as well as a couple other models.Quote:
i'd left a space for tweeters, as i have still several of these -
this is the Polydax / Audax HD13D34H.
these have an acceleration factor of more than 7500 meters per second.
if your amp/electronics can keep up ...
The Westlakes have a removable metal bug/dust screen that is held in place by the magnet. Do you know if the bug screen is a product of Westlake Audio or Polydax/Audax?
I saw those Altec 755A data sheets and I don't think the 1.3 lb figure for magnet weight is correct. 3.1 pounds is more like it.
The speaker is heavy @ 5 lbs. The magnet is very large and solid AlNico except for a groove on the bottom (against the frame) for a charging coil. The rest is made of thin stamped sheet metal. It seems obvious to me, holding one in my hand, that the magnet constitutes most of the weight of the driver.
I know the donut magnet in the 12" 728B weighs 10 pounds but i can't find any WE data on the magnet weight in the 755A.
In any case, it would be a very expensive magnet to manufacture today. The end product would have to sell for at least $500-600 each to make any sense, and that is before factoring in tooling and minimum orders for the cones.
I know somebody who has special mix hot press paper cones made. He pays a few dollars each but has to order 10000 units at a time and he had to pay around $15000 to have the mold made--and that was a simple curvilinear woofer cone, not a complex structure like the 755A "diacone" construction.
Does that make them special? :biggrin2:Quote:
except for the beaming, they sounded much like the 1989/90 martin-logan cls.
The 755C is a very decent 8" for sure but there are many other good 8" cones, new and old.
Nothing else sounds like a 755A though...that's what I am calling special.
Sparkling, astounding triumph.
Yeah I know I sound like a broken record... but the WE/Altec Alnico cones are the only speakers that, 25 years after I first started using them, I sit and listen amazed with a stupid grin on my face the whole time.
They don't do this to everybody, but the 755A really gets inside my head.
I owned and heard a lot of speakers but the 755/756/728/754 based setups are really special to me.
Astounding triumph, indeed!
Someone must have seen the last pair on ebay, and now wants to cash in on his. Asking $9500/pr - very used and no original boxes: RARE Pair Western Electric KS 14703 755A Speakers Original Cabinets w KS12048 | eBay
Rereading Badmaieffs biflex patent (Patent US2834424 - SOUND-REPRODUCING DEVICE - Google Patents), he documents a frequency response dip when the inner and outer areas of the cone are out of phase with each other. He resolves this by applying a 'viscous damping fluid' both at the corrugated area between the two cone portions, and also at the edge of the cone.
Looking at photos of a 755A, as I have never seen one in person, it seems there is 'goop' around the edge of the cone - as is common with a lot of Altec drivers. However, there doesn't seem to be any mid-cone. So do the 755A and friends have a problem with the response dip that Badmaieff documents? Or perhaps damping the outside edge of the cone was sufficient?
I might add that it is interesting reading through some of the early (1930s, 1940s) patents on these types of cones. The Stevens patent the Badmaieff patent refers to, 2549139, refers to quite a few of these. (My father used to tell me that I should have become a patent attorney...)
The WE speaker line which featured the 755A was introduced in 1947-1948.
I have not found any WE patents relating to this cone design.
I vaguely recall a few lines in old articles about these cones but those brain cells responsible for that data storage drifted away some time ago.
You can read the 1947 WE Oscillator article on these speakers in the article linked below.
http://silbatoneacoustics.com/images...oudspeaker.pdf
I 'm seeing the cone in light of the 10 year later Altec design but there might be differences between the two in intent and implementation that we'll never know about.
The point I made above about the variable thickness cone came from somebody who measured it.
The USPTOs image reader is crashing my browser when I try to read the Altec patent but I'll try a few other approaches. Thanks for the link!
No problems here reading those patents, using either firefox or chrome (on linux).
The 1947 article is really good. Thanks for sharing it. I briefly tried searching for some relevent WE patents as well, but so far have come up empty handed. Wonder if they were ever documented in the BSTJ?
I have a really good book on the Bell System ("Engineering and Operations in the Bell System", 2nd edition). It is a 800+ page tome with lots of cool techie info. The book was compiled in the early 1980s and documents the Bell System just before it was all broken up. Looking through it, there is no technical detail about the audio/theater stuff that was spun off in the late '40s. Just some descriptions of the various regulatory and court actions.
Western Electric's accomplishments in theater sound are largely forgotten by most, although rediscovered by the hobby audio world over the past two decades, and even more so the studio and PA electronics of the mid-late 1940s.
All of this equipment and technology is very sparsely documented. I have have a collection of copies from various Bell publications I made at engineering libraries and the library of Congress but they are currently in storage. Who reads books in this Google age?
One thing to note about the 755A is that the advertising mentions "Presence." The speaker was designed for high intelligibility and peaks are engineered into the response. With a proper amp, and I can't quantify that, the 755A takes on a lively exciting character. With the wrong amp, it will take your head off. You will find user reports swinging both ways. A lot of people tried 755as and couldn't get rid of them fast enough! Tricky sucker!
I read somewhere that the 755A was based on fundamental hearing research in a number of ways, one being the balance of the high and low cutoff, note the speakers that go lower cut off in HF sooner, and another being the intelligibility research done as part of Bell's concern with transfer characteristics for phone transmission.
Mention was made to empirical research in hearing performed with tens of thousands of subjects at the World's Fair playing a role in the voicing of that speaker. by the standards of that study, the HF response of the 755a was way extended. I think they talked about 8kc as the goal for full frequency response.
My sense is that the 755A cone characteristics and that molded in compliance are part of the response shaping rather than decoupling strategy we see in most "diacone" approaches. Also, marketing play was made of the flat profile of the 700 series speakers for installs. Later, the 755C was called the "pancake" in Altec lit. A 12" Jensen is twice as deep as a 728B.
Here, have a look at the 1947 WE loudspeaker catalog. These are all really really good parts.
http://silbatoneacoustics.com/images...speakers47.pdf
I like this stuff more than the legendary field coil theater gear in a lot of ways. At one time I had a good collection of this gear. Now I can't find it and couldn't afford most of it if I did.
I have a pair of Altec 756Bs and working on getting a pr of Altec 755As boxed up and playing. I get to hear 757As, L-8, L-9s. etc. though my connection with the Silbatone collection and took them to a few hi-fi shows for educational outreach.
On the one hand, I believe that knowing the sounds and having a catalog of the sound in my head is more important than owing tons of rare gear, which takes a lot of dedication and space...on the other hand, I want a pair of 757As!
--------------------------
Indeed, if you look up Hopkins 1946s WE patent US2549091 (cited in Badmaieff 1956) and go though the prior art Hopkins cites, you will have a good idea of the technical space WE was working in with these cone speaker designs.