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crap, i meant 811
Altec Lansing Speakers 902 8A Drivers H811B Horns | eBay
copy reads
"902-8A Drivers matched to H811B Horns. The pictures show that these drivers both have good coils. Great shape, with Mojave dust from being stored in Las Vegas. Owned by a man who builds high end audio equipment using tubes and coils that he winds to match. Quality man, quality equipment. Shipping is pricey, but these are heavy, large units, and must be packaged to protect them. Look up the specs on the net."
Same setup as the later M19's.
A very good sounding driver horn combo. Better than the 802-8G to my ears.
Ron
Personally, i would not bolt a 902 to a 511. You'll find the only times that Altec did was to fill a market niche. 902 is a fine tweeter driver, but it sucks at midrange down to a 500 hz transition point. The older annular slit 802's play much better down in that range.
Altec offered one factory system using a 902 on a 511, and it was more about creating a "look" than a sound. You simply don't need a horn with a 500hz cut-off on a driver that isn't going to play below 1200.
Not all that until you add the N-1201 with it's contour and equalization to smooth out upper end response.Quote:
A very good sounding driver horn combo.
we'll crap, i bid on them fully expecting to get out bid. i was wrong. apparently no one else figured they were worth more than 180$. now what do i do with them? (they're actually 811 horns. )
What you say is true, but the 811 is no better across it's range than the 511. If you have to pay more for 511 you have a point, otherwise the 511 is every bit as good or better. FWIW if you just go to 800 the 511 has better pattern control.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
You're into those very reasonably, and they present a lot of possibilities. You done good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-G
At the entry fee, i'd not hesitate to just set them aside and continue shopping around. You can't buy a pair of new diaphragms for what you spent on those horns and drivers. There's something "different" internally about those "A" version 902's. Nothing of consequence, just something different about the internal construction. I suspect they found a "cheaper" way to make them.
so it's pretty much worthless in the voice range?
Difficult to pinpoint, but maybe this is why i prefer the 511 over the 811 aside form the oft parroted "gondotrophic effect". I often read others' accounts of perceiving better HF from the 811(i don't agree), i wonder if it's the result of a narrower pattern at lower mid frequencies that creates the audible illusion of more HF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
For the OP's benefit i want to make it clear that we're talking about mostly very subtle(read small) differences here that many folks probably wouldn't notice unless demonstrated or pointed out to them.
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No, not worthless at all. My advice would be to use those with the N-1201 or facsimile. Then you just need to come up with a bottom section that will play well up to 1200hz, and there LOTS of possibilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-G
Actually in home use 800 up is gonna cover most of the voice range, so I would not say that is accurate. Are the big 288 better for the voice range? Yup. Do they cost more and have less HF? Yup. The Lord giveth and taketh away. It is a SYSTEM and everything must be viewed as PART of the system. After all you are not going to just listen to the horns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-G
A number of Altecs do quite well in the mid bass. 416 and 414 for instance. On a budget? 3156 go cheap. They have very nice mid bass. Can always add a sub later.
Or go tandem a la 8256..................... they are a reasonably priced bugger, sometimes offered in lots at around a C note each.Quote:
On a budget? 3156 go cheap. They have very nice mid bass. Can always add a sub later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
I suspect you are on the right track with your logic. To me the 511 is just plain a better horn, but in the absence of HF EQ and knowledge of how to use it, a beginner might accidentally get better sound from an 811.
I tested some drivers with three different horns and posted the results here:
511 tests
Phil, you find the data to be worth a look.
I remember Jim Dickenson, yes, THE Jim Dickenson, saying the 902-8A was the best sounding of the small format drivers.
As I stated, this is the same driver/horn used in the ferrite M19's.
So I'm confused by the negative comments.
The 902's bandwidth is shifted upwards. It sounds better across its range but wont go as low as an 802.
well im beginning to feel better, but then i had a small hangover this morning, and the last thing i did before i went to sleep, was bid on these. hmmmm maybe i'm on to something. :)
just got to try them and see what they have. i'm still convinced i might be happier with a 802-511 set.
happier still with the led zeppelin/the who horns i saw on ebay last month. :emot15:
so last night i get an email with a tracking #, from the seller saying my horns would be shipped out last night. i checked this morning and it doesn't look like he dropped them off at ups. says he printed a label out. so at least he got that far. never seen anyone drag their feet like this one. i went and checked the feedback on him and a couple of them were less than glowing. i'll just have to hope for the best.
Don't sweat it yet. Different folks have different methods and practices of shipping. For some folks there are logistical challenges, and other factors that will come into play, especially if they're not regular sellers/shippers of large items. Good packing that ensures safe arrival takes time and materials, and some folks don't realize what's involved until they start packing. Remember, safe shipping trumps fast every time in the end game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-G
Probably a little late for me to ask, but do you know if he will remove the drivers and pack them separately? They can still go inside a "main" package but really will make transit safer for both them and the horns if they're removed from the horns and well packaged.
yeah, at this point i'll just have to hope he spent some of that 70$ on packing. and just hope for the best. :/Quote:
Probably a little late for me to ask, but do you know if he will remove the drivers and pack them separately? They can still go inside a "main" package but really will make transit safer for both them and the horns if they're removed from the horns and well packaged.
The 902-8A has a smaller diameter throat. I think .7 inches vs 1 inch. You can measure and see. This is perhaps why they wont play as low as well as the 80x series.
not the best. almost 2 weeks later. they came in a singleply cardboard 3 cubic' uhaul box with "easy to lift handles" and almost no packing. at least 7 corners are still intact. and the drivers do work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-Gyeah, at this point i'll just have to hope he spent some of that 70$ on packing. and just hope for the best. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
and after he puts this in the listing.is there a bitchslap delivery service? :D i'll deal with / later.Quote:
Shipping is pricey, but these are heavy, large units, and must be packaged to protect them.
so on to business, will the 416zs be able to cover the frequencies that the 902s can't cover? i listened to them and they definatly don't have much low end at all.
????
What do you mean by no low end?
Ron
on these HFs i thinking between 800 to 1500. no i'm not trying get bass out of them, just the low to mid voice range
IMO, they're best crossed @ 1200 12db/octave minimum.
Sucks about the shipping, can you get any compensation, even a token?
as i was replying yesterday,,,, im going for 1200 like you suggest. i guess im going to have to learn about x-overs. what i really want to know is what upper freq can you realisticaly expect 416Zs to work up to? i'm counting on using the 806-8as (if i recieve them) and if i can repair the one that doesn't work
i messaged the seller, and will wait till i get a reply before i drop feedback on him. somehow i'm not seeing 5 stars in his future. i have the horns, they do work, and i can always have a buddy weld the ear back on. with a little sanding and careful paint you'll never be able to tell.
I would say for me, 1600 is an absolute upper limit on the 416, but 1200 is better. I know what specs sheets say, but speakers aren't best pushed to the limit.
i see spec sheets as a reference but prefer experience.
so ahh phase plugs aren't supposed to rattle around are they. :D what kind of glue are they supposed be attached with? looks my first horn repair.
edit do you think this maybe the reason they don't quite sound like what i was expecting,,, you think? also one gasket between the diaphram and horn on one of the horns is missing.
You don't like the rattling phase plug? It was an Altec option.... :-) Adds a little snare to the music.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-G
I'm betting you will figure out how to make a new gasket.
Here's an old measurement I did of 902 on several horns:
http://imageshack.us/a/img837/5589/9...comparison.png
You can see on both the 811 and 511 it will do fairly well down to 500 Hz, but you will probably be happier with it crossing it higher. It's a little bit of a bumpy ride down that low...
It's as important and functional as any other part of the horn/driver system.Quote:
I'm betting you will figure out how to make a new gasket.
Listen listen listen to them down there. Frequency response only tells part of the story.Quote:
You can see on both the 811 and 511 it will do fairly well down to 500 Hz, but you will probably be happier with it crossing it higher. It's a little bit of a bumpy ride down that low...
Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying they sound "bad". I'm just saying that at 500hz on a 511 an annular phased 802 with it's less powerful motor and large, open, damped rear chamber make for better SQ at 500. It's immediately noticeable to me, and i prefer getting the crossover region "right" over HF extension.
Just my .02.................... YMMV.
Beginning with the 802-8G based on my limited experience with them and for sure with GPA's version based its published measured response on a 511. Adapted to a 311 or larger horn though, it should be fine down to 500 Hz, but the trade-off will probably be a more rolled off extreme HF due to the higher throat impedance, so might as well use the earlier 802/808 driver unless one wants the increased pattern control, power handling of a larger horn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
GM
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Mine too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Actually, the 'FR' pretty much tells us all we need to know in this case, it?s unloading below 1+ kHz, so with a ~ 800 Hz F6, this is the practical lower limit and for best overall performance it needs at least a one octave of ~ flat BW/2nd order, so Altec?s ~1.2 kHz XO point is spot on, making it pretty obvious [at least to me] that the XO point was chosen first, then the driver designed to match.
GM
Yeah, what he said. :biggrin2: