Altec 416 Identity

I purchased a pair of Altec 416's about 15 years ago. I think were were 8 ohm B's. They have been in storage since then. I took them out a few weeks ago and both are missing their back covers. I don't recall if I ever had them or lost them. There is nothing that I can see anywhere that identifies them. They have the stamped spiders as apposed the the cast, and one magnet is painted grey and one black. The cones look rather new and have white numbers printed on their backs. This isn't a lot of information, but I am hoping that someone here can help me identify them without posting picture, which I don't have permission to do yet. Any ideas will be appreciated.

i'm not a speaker expert, but i know vbcode and forums. judging by your join date i don't see why you can't post a pic.maybe if you post a couple more times it will get your post count up enough. and if you post what the #s are that might help some of the guys here.
and :D welcome to the forum.

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both are missing their back covers.

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That rules out "B" models.

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They have the stamped spiders as apposed the the cast

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I'm not aware of any version of 416 that doesn't use the common fabric spider.

A pic will be worth a thousand words......................

Are you calling old style frames "stamped spiders" ? Missing back covers they simply cannot be B models, my best guess from your description is 416z, assuming they are 416's. What are the "white cone numbers"?

+1 on the 416Z model.

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Originally Posted by bowtie427ss

That rules out "B" models.

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Why does that rule out the B?

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Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill

Why does that rule out the B?

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There is no "cover" to remove from a "B".

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Originally Posted by bowtie427ss

There is no "cover" to remove from a "B".

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Is the B necessarily a stepped motor? I've never seen one of those in person. I have an 8A with the new frame and early motor cover, which isn't seen as much.

Attachment 1892
Attachment 1893

The outside diameter of the frames are 15 1/4 inches. They are 8 ohm speakers from my measurement. The number printed on both cones is RW5309, which could be a GPA part number as the cones look brand new. If they are Z's, then I gather that they probably never had magnet covers, and the magnets would be alnico.

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Is the B necessarily a stepped motor?

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Yes.

I believe it is a one piece all cast return pot. The design was also seen in 414's(8C) 417's(8H II) 418's(late 8C, and 8H II's) and 420's(8B). Came into play about the same time as the 1 piece cast return pots on the 802, 808, and 806(rare) HF drivers, circa 1974ish.

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Originally Posted by John48

Attachment 1892
Attachment 1893

The outside diameter of the frames are 15 1/4 inches. They are 8 ohm speakers from my measurement. The number printed on both cones is RW5309, which could be a GPA part number as the cones look brand new. If they are Z's, then I gather that they probably never had magnet covers, and the magnets would be alnico.

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IMO, they've been repainted. I wouldn't hazard a guess on the cones except to say that's not an Altec part number.

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Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill

Is the B necessarily a stepped motor?

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Since as that is what makes it a B, yes.

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My guess is OEM 418- ie 422z- repainted with 416 kits. Equivalent essentially to the 416z.

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Originally Posted by Old Guy

Since as that is what makes it a B, yes.

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Well, now I know my 416 is definetly and A, and not a B with an older A cover.

Sounds like a Waldom cone kit too.

GPA e-mailed me that the cones are not theirs.

Although the basket has a similar appearance to stamped, look at the back of the mounting flange, do you see those little fins? :)

I agree with the others - 416 Z. Same as a 416 B IIRC. Might have come from a Model 19?

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Originally Posted by Cal Weldon

Although the basket has a similar appearance to stamped, look at the back of the mounting flange, do you see those little fins? :)

I agree with the others - 416 Z. Same as a 416 B IIRC. Might have come from a Model 19?

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Cal the 416B doesn't have those fins, it is a 16" frame.These in the pics, John48's are 15"


http://www.vintage-tuner.com/tests/s...tec-416-02.jpg

Yup, musta posted too quickly. Thanks AB. So the Z is the same as the A?

You can get 15 or 16 inch framed 416-(8)As, and also 416-(8)z so that's most likely what they are, later production 15 inch A's. Earlier As had a green frame. Somewhere I recall seeing a green framed 416-z.

The other thing, we all assume they are 416. We haven't seen the front, they could be 418 with the aluminium dustcap repainted from white. There is that black overspray.

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Originally Posted by magnarc

You can get 15 or 16 inch framed 416-(8)As, and also 416-(8)z so that's most likely what they are, later production 15 inch A's. Earlier As had a green frame. Somewhere I recall seeing a green framed 416-z.

The other thing, we all assume they are 416. We haven't seen the front, they could be 418 with the aluminium dustcap repainted from white. There is that black overspray.

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Doesn't the Z tend to have black 15" frames? I do think these have been painted, as previously suggested. Could they be repainted 421s?

It gets so confusing.
Here is a green 416-Z
Vintage Altec 416Z 416 Z 15" Woofer Voice of Theater Vott Speaker | eBay

I think generally the green frames were 16 ohm and the black mostly 8 ohm..... Although not always, there are 416A in green and black at 16 ohms, and 416-8A in black at 8 ohms, and in both 15 and 16 inch frames. And I bet somewhere there is a black 16 ohm 416A with a 16 inch frame.........

I'm sure all the 421s, even the 15 inch frames, had flat ceramic magnets.
The white 418 15 inch frames had Alnico.

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Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill

Doesn't the Z tend to have black 15" frames? I do think these have been painted, as previously suggested. Could they be repainted 421s?

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No way. 421 is a back vented ceramic mag.

They are 418 or 422-z repainted IMHO. Why paint black frames? They were white, then painted black. the 417 cone fits. I think they have Waldom 416 kits.

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Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill

Doesn't the Z tend to have black 15" frames? I do think these have been painted, as previously suggested. Could they be repainted 421s?

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No way. 421 is a back vented ceramic mag.

They are 418 or 422-z repainted IMHO. Why paint black frames? They were white, then painted black. the 417 cone fits. I think they have Waldom 416 kits.

Look at the magnets, they started life as two different drivers from two different time periods. The one with the unpainted magnet could have always been a 416 unless there's white paint visible under the black.

The painted magnet looks like the thin factory paint from a 418, 422/423, it's not the same paint as on the frame, and the real kicker is the 3 bolt holes around the perimeter of the back of the pot, they scream "late" production to me.