HELP! I think I've found an original 604 in a 605 Cabinet..

Hello all and thank you for reading this post.

I stumbled upon this Speaker while searching for a job (that's right, I couldn't make that up; I'm not that smart). My son and I were out looking for a small table at a community auction. I saw the cabinet from across the room and my heart started racing. It just couldn't be; after all, my glasses are years out of date (what happens when you lose your health insurance and you're over 50) and it's probably an old radio (front view was blocked). When we made our way through the morass of crap dumped around it I saw the label on the back. I flipped out (as much as an old man still can), we bought it not knowing if it even had a speaker inside of it, and drove home (with no table). We got it home and decided to wait until morning (he's 8 and this was like Christmas for us).

5 AM I'm opening the back expecting to see an empty slot where a speaker once was in place. I opened it and it was clean as could be, with a speaker in place, but too dark outside to see anything (time for a flashlight run). I think we hit the lottery, but until I hear from you folks I will not be certain (probably just need you as the "pinch" so I know it's not a dream).

I'm attaching pictures (may need another post) but the serial number is 1034, Model 604, Impedance 20. I know the cabinet is a 605 (even a blind horse....); what's incredible about the cabinet is it's in near perfect condition on all sides (even the bottom - see picture). It's in better shape than most of our furniture.

Can a few of you who have interest and vast more knowledge than me please take a look and give me your opinions? Much as I'd like to keep it forever, we just have too many needs right now and I have to decide what's best to do for all of us. Thanks much and I'll keep my fingers crossed. Here are the photo's:Attachment 1938Attachment 1939Attachment 1940Attachment 1941Attachment 1941

Trying to figure out how to add pictures; here are (hopefully) a few more:

Attachment 1942Attachment 1943Attachment 1944Attachment 1945Attachment 1946

Last one; just wanted to show the very bottom (because I mentioned it). There are fewer scratches on the bottom then there are on my truck bumper.

Attachment 1947

glad you waited until April SECOND to post this. Otherwise I would've said...hahah nice try buddy.

Otherwise, I'm saying nice find there! Yes, that appears to be an original mid-40's 604...a rare find and hopefully it will bring you what you need.

Dear Alien:

You know, I hadn't even given the date a thought! I agree, had I posted it yesterday it might have looked a bit sketchy. It's funny how things can work out if you keep trying; we just wanted to find a table or something we could use. Going together with him was more important than finding anything. I still feel that way.

If this is indeed what I think it is; I know how important they are and that it should be kept well and preserved. I haven't totally decided yet on how or what to do, but my guess is that eBay is probably the best bet. Maybe even wind up in Abbey Road studios, where it can be put to more good use.

Thanks for the reply and the vote; it's already a better month.

I'd keep the speaker and get rid of the family...but that's just the kind of guy I am.

Welcome aboard Bobdrfl, great find!!! clean it up and send it to the bay, would make a great mono system!!!! If it works properly? it should bring close to 4K.. use some howards products on the cab,it it will do wonders. Just be very careful with that speaker! Good luck, remember we are all just stewards...

wow that's beautiful. sure would go a ways on gas and mortgage

You should tell us how much you paid for it so we will feel really bad........

To me you've hit the lottery (Altec History). I would ask Todd W White for his advise, or if you need any Altec speakers, parts, or labour talk to Bill at Great Plains, they should be interested in wanting a great piece of Altec history from the 1944 - 1948 era. You can then do some bartering:)

What a wonderful posting board; so many quick responses. I'm certainly grateful.

I'm not sure how I'm going to handle the next steps; if I list on eBay or how I list or what manner are all to be decided (auction, buy it now, time period, etc.). We've been on eBay quite a bit lately, selling items we no longer need and anything I can gather or pick up that has some value. This kind of a find never figured into what we've been doing (china, porcelain, old oddities, etc.). I know a few good shipping/crating/house-hold moving concerns so delivering won't be a problem (probably could even deliver it myself if someone wanted that), but I suspect in a few days it will be much clearer as to how to go about this.

For now, I'm just very relieved that it's being well received and it wasn't just me that was optimistically thinking it was real. I had an idea about the tri-color labels, and it seems like a good low number, but I wanted to be dead sure it was for real and not just an altered version. It's all padded up (I don't want anything to happen to it), especially the very intact and perfect shape front grill.

Any, thanks again to all of you who've written; both my son and I thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobdrfl

We got it home and decided to wait until morning (he's 8 and this was like Christmas for us).

I'm attaching pictures (may need another post) but the serial number is 1034, Model 604, Impedance 20. I know the cabinet is a 605 (even a blind horse....

---

Christmas indeed! If it functions properly except for the XO's caps, not quite tantamount to the little old lady's $200 sale priced pristine '57 fuelie 'Vette out back in the barn, but still on a very short list worldwide since apparently most surviving this long have been re-coned as D's.

I put the 'as delivered' price inflated to 2013 as high as $6500 depending on the year, but will need the 391xxx date code to get closer to a realistic rock bottom minimum short of a major distress sale.

GM

Dear GM: Much appreciated but (from my end) probably not completely understood. My working knowledge of speakers was through my (recently sold) Marshall with a 4X12 Celestion Cabinet. I have not done ANYTHING to this one yet, except to dust it off (no polish, no wiring, nothing). I was (and rightfully so) and am not willing to risk any kind of damage due to ignorance, which I've been particularly blessed with an abundance.

I was hoping in discussions here to get some pointers; should I just hook it up to any old amplifier; should I keep the volume (wattage output) low to comply with the 25 Watts maximum; should I put an electrical meter on it and if so where and to measure what; etc. Years ago (when I still played guitar meaningfully), I had the good fortune of working with "Voice of the Theater" PA Systems, but the thought of hurting one never entered into our minds; in fact, due to copious quantities of alcohol and a host of pharmaceutical friends, not much of anything entered our minds. So now I have to ask to be told like a slower 7 year old (no disrespect implied to 7 year old's the world over) lest I hurt this jewel. For example; what and where are the date codes you refer to ("391XXX") and can I get to them or see them without disturbing or removing the speaker?

I was able to find a line to one that sold back almost 2 years ago (June 2011). It's a few months older but the cabinet and speaker doesn't appear to be in the same condition (his is a bit more used or worn). It sold for $6500 after 15 bids. I don't know how the economy may have effected it as of today, but this one is in better (cosmetic) condition all around (just from what is obvious). I will test it's working condition once I hear from a few of you folk that would not have me destroy it.

I like the metaphor to the 'Vette; only hoping this one works as well as it did in 1944?

It will be necessary to pull the speaker out of the cabinet and inspect it closely if you intend to put it up for auction and get top-dollar for it. Collectors will want to see high-quality close-ups of the speaker and cabinet to know if they are bidding on an original. Here is a good example of some of the details that you'll want to look for in an original "RWB 604"

Owned Played by Les Paul Altec 604 Hollywood RWB Speaker All Original | eBay

You will want to check the functionality of the speaker as well. Using your DVM, set it for ohms (DC Resistance) and check both sets of speaker terminals. You'll want to take pictures of those readings as well to show the voice coils are in-tact. As you mentioned, you can hook the speaker up for a listening test, although the crossover is likely to be in pretty terrible shape; anything around since WWII probably has some "issues" :) Let us know if you want help in how best to hook it up and conduct a listening test.

As far as the cabinets go, someone already mentioned using Howards on them - look at your local box store for Feed-N-Wax. It's great to revitalize a beautiful old hardwood cabinet like that.

Also, for fun, here is one of the original marketing pamphlets of this speaker from the mid-40's:

Altec 604 Introduction Brochure

Well, I seriously doubt it will ever perform quite like it did originally anymore than the ?Vette would when lubricated and ?fed? modern oil, fuel blends.

Its sheer age combined with long term lack of use has compromised its diaphragm, surround?s ability to track the signal the same, ditto the horn driver?s; plus the XO?s replacement caps will have deteriorated too much by now and don?t have a modern equivalent in ?tone?.

FWIW, some collectors pay more for ?as is? when it?s obvious that it?s a ?diamond in the rough?, so you may not want to do any cleaning up of the cab, etc. at least until you get a good ?feel? for the prevailing market.

Personally, I wouldn?t even dust off such a ?find? beyond what a fine feather duster could remove, at least until I could confirm its likely condition once properly cleaned up.

I mean no serious collector of ?anything? would ever willingly trust a private seller that just lucked up on an all original [much less relatively rare] ?find? to correctly modify it in any way beyond what it took to document its condition and properly package for shipment when required.

WRT speaker components, disconnecting wiring and removing the driver[s] to comprehensively document its condition, checking for any open or shorted voice coils [VC], cracked /corroded wiring, VC ?rub? by applying a uniform pressure around the spider [very little on an original 604 as it has no linear excursion [Xmax], so I wouldn?t try more than maybe an 1/8? and certainly no more than a ??].

Ideally, the horn?s rear cover and loading cap [if installed] should be removed to test, document its diaphragm, but with its strong magnet, this has proved disastrous for many, so ?caveat emptor?.

Unless you have the appropriate test gear, I don?t recommend powering it up even if the VCs, surrounds are OK unless done individually with the appropriate BW limited pink noise for each without the XO at only ~0.01 W max since there will be no cab loading.

Date codes can be anywhere on the basic driver and some have even been found on the cab.

Again, $6500 could be just a starting point. If it?s truly pristine except for the XO caps, a contemporary version, i.e. GPA 604 S3 in a hand crafted cab could cost 4x or more since such skilled labor has far outpaced inflation, but it?s currently a buyer?s market, so if you can afford to keep it till the market swings your way????..

GM

Dear Alien: Thanks for the information. I certainly didn't want to devalue it by doing something foolish. I'll hook up my multi-tester and see what kind of readings I get. After I get those I'll let you know and if you think it's appropriate, I'll do a sound check per your instructions. The crossover (according to the Introduction Guide) is not only original (see pictures) it looks like it's brand new in appearance. I checked on your RWB 604 (Les Paul) and mine is similar in all respects but appears to be less "used" in appearance (and it's a lower serial number). I'll take it out of the cabinet carefully, photograph it, test it, and then put it right back inside. There is one very small (1.25" long) tear in the paper, but it is not separated (took me till now to find it).Attachment 1949

I haven't done anything to the cabinets because I wanted them to be as original as possible (have no intentions of making misrepresentations or misleading anyone). If applying oil to them will help I'm sure anyone would see that as just normal care, so I'm happy to do it.

One last question (for now): You're certain that taking out the speaker is not tampering/altering/etc. and that assuming I don't drop it onto concrete, it should be fine to do? THANKS AGAIN!

Awesome Find ! Congratulations !

Dear GM: Thanks so much for the thoughts and efforts to explain them to me. I've read it a few times and have come to the conclusion that a sensible alternative to me fiddling around with this might be to take it to a local "lab" and let them perform the checks and issue a certificate of health (or not). It would cost a few dollars but it also might increase it's worth, as you suggest. I spent (borrowed on a credit card) to pay for it (which has been against our plan and nature to gamble right now on anything) so a few dollars for experts to do the physical might make the most sense; I could also show that an independent third party provided the testing and that they will stand behind it (also may be of value to a potential buyer).

My thought now is to let it sit securely padded and protected, until I can figure out (with all the astonishing help I'm gathering here) what makes the most sense. Saving a few dollars by trying to "do it myself" may be the biggest mistake and regret that can happen. How much can a local lab charge?

Thanks again for all your help and inputs.

We've been in suspense long enough, what did you pay for it?

Enquiring minds want to know.

This whole thread has begun to smell like a fishing expedition to me.

Except that he has been out front about his intentions from the start, no?

Dear RonSSS:

Not sure what you mean by a fishing expedition; what I wrote here is exactly what happened and I've been clear from the very first post about why and what I was asking. I'm sorry if in some way I've offended you but I certainly don't see how. I've posted clear pictures and wrote about the experience and asked advice from people I recognize are far more informed than I'll ever be in this subject. That's it; if there is something you're unsure of or don't like that I've written, please let me know and I'll do my best to explain it. I had no agenda other that to determine if what I found was real, and what was the best route to market for it. Thanks for listening.

Oh they are real ! :smile2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobdrfl

Dear RonSSS:

Not sure what you mean by a fishing expedition; what I wrote here is exactly what happened and I've been clear from the very first post about why and what I was asking. I'm sorry if in some way I've offended you but I certainly don't see how. I've posted clear pictures and wrote about the experience and asked advice from people I recognize are far more informed than I'll ever be in this subject. That's it; if there is something you're unsure of or don't like that I've written, please let me know and I'll do my best to explain it. I had no agenda other that to determine if what I found was real, and what was the best route to market for it. Thanks for listening.

---

What he means is It sounds like your just here fishing for clues on what you can get for it, But not willing to share what you gave for it. It's not like were gonna go shoot your sale down if you get a great offer. We more or less just like to hear great tales about how much somebody was able to collect such a treasure for.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cradeldorf

What he means is It sounds like your just here fishing for clues on what you can get for it, But not willing to share what you gave for it. It's not like were gonna go shoot your sale down if you get a great offer. We more or less just like to hear great tales about how much somebody was able to collect such a treasure for.......

---

and most of us are hoarders anyway. :)

Thanks guys. That is what I meant. I've been here a long time and have seen folks who are not Altec enthusiasts like the rest of us, pop on here with "what's my stuff worth" questions so they can put the stuff on the bay and be sure they aren't giving it away too cheap.
I've only ever lost money on the stuff I've ever sold, and the sad fact is, most if not all of us on this board couldn't afford to buy what you have anyway. In fact, I doubt all of my stuff combined, and I have a pretty good pile, is worth what that one piece would fetch.

You would have done just fine by putting it up there and taking your chances.

Lastly, I'm jealous.

Ron

Quote:

---

It's not like were gonna go shoot your sale down if you get a great offer.

---

The "shotgun" education will do that on it's own if it's reflected in the sale description. Nothing will drive the serious big spender collectors off like a seller that appears to "know too much".

Quote:

---

You would have done just fine by putting it up there and taking your chances.

---

This would have nearly ensured top dollar.

Fact is, this thread alone has received views over posts at a nearly 20:1 ratio. You can be sure that some potential buyers have already viewed this thread or had it interpreted for them, and then moved along to the next lead if the OP didn't receive a PM expressing interest.

I'm sure there is at least one other member(3 actually that i'm aware of) here who has many international contacts and has also probably had similar dialog on the subject.

Remember folks, this forum is seen by the world, and they're always watching. I never looked at the thread until i received an email from outside the USA about it.

Putting all your cards on the table face up is a great way to lose the game.

Dear Cradeldorf, Phil G, RonSSS, and Bowtie:

I see and hear what you're saying; and I appreciate the tone and manner that it's being said. So because of that, I will try to make my case clearer for all of you and for anyone else who reads these posts.

Everything I wrote about how we came to this find is true, down to the last detail. As far as keeping the speaker; I would love to, not because I think it's the greatest speaker (or treasured item) ever, but because it reminds me of a time in my life long ago. However, at this point, I wouldn't keep a Da Vinci work because of our needs and priorities. Everyone doesn't see things or works the same way; how many people view works of arts in a museum and come away with the same opinion? I knew it was an important speaker when I walked in the room, but that doesn't mean I understand it the same way as most of your do; it's simply not my field and I recognize when you want to verify something, you ask experts. You are those and I am not with regard to it. Your passion about it is probably greater than mine but my passion is providing for my family at a difficult time. Even though that's my priority, I still would never want to do it by misleading or misrepresenting someone about this speaker. THAT is why I turned to all of you, to help me understand or be certain that I could represent it as a true original 604.

I'm not trying to become as educated as you are on this speaker, it took all of you a collective long period to acquire that knowledge. I simply wanted to know if it were for real. I wasn't asking or looking for offers; because of our needs I believe opening it up to the largest audience for bidding is probably the most effective way to abide by my family's priorities. I just didn't want to do that by misrepresenting it as something it was not; ESPECIALLY because my young son was with me and I believe him learning that lesson is way more important than this whole issue.

As to how much I paid for it; the reason I didn't mention that is because those matters have always been a private thing to me; akin to asking someone how much their salary is or what they spend in a year. I am not a gambling person, and I could not see inside the speaker when we bought it, and I maxed out my one of two remaining credit cards to pay for it, so you can imagine how relieved I was when all of you so graciously told me it was for real. The amount, if you must know, was nearly three thousand dollars. I knew if I was right that I was getting something that even the Beatles thought highly of, and that it could be used to support my family for a brief while. We've already sold a lot of whatever we had collected over the years, and even some that I try to pick up along the way at small auctions and garage sales. If all that makes me less than likeable to some of you, because I am not one of you (an Altec purist), then I accept that from your perspective.

I am immensely grateful for all the wonderful advice and well wishes I have received from this board and it's participants. I meant no disrespect by asking for it; that's why I shared the entire experience instead of just posting it with pictures and a question. I thought most of you would appreciate it (remember, people who know little about art sometimes find masterpieces at garage sales too). I'm stunned by my good fortune at finding it, and hope that someone will look at it when it's listed, and buy it and treasure it and make the best use of it they can. I just cannot, at this time, even think about keeping it especially since that credit card bill is going to be rolling around any day now. As far as just putting it up and taking my chances? I just couldn't do that if it wasn't right; and if it wasn't right I would have learned that from all of you and then disclosed it.

Hope that explains things to those that wanted to know; again, thank you all for helping me.

I'm predicting you triple your bet. You did good Bob, Best of luck to ya. :)

Really? Harassing?

He said:

"I flipped out (as much as an old man still can), we bought it not knowing if it even had a speaker inside of it, and drove home (with no table). We got it home and decided to wait until morning (he's 8 and this was like Christmas for us)."

Then

"I am not a gambling person, and I could not see inside the speaker when we bought it, and I maxed out my one of two remaining credit cards to pay for it, so you can imagine how relieved I was when all of you so graciously told me it was for real. The amount, if you must know, was nearly three thousand dollars."

In short, paid 3 grand for what could have been a cabinet with no speaker in it? Ok.

You know, come to think of it, I did just fall off the turnip truck.....

C'mon

Dear RonSSS:

I'd rather not fight with anyone here, for almost any reason. However, it seems you're hellbent on trying to provoke an issue. I won't participate with you as it takes two to fight, but I will tell you this: don't besmirch my character. I'm not trying to convince you of anything as you apparently already know everything. In short, if you've nothing nice to say try saying nothing.

Altec Best had an interesting comment that perhaps you should take note of, which was, "please don't harass new members." He said that for more than the apparent reasons, I'm certain. If no one new ever joins then all you can do is to rehash and retell your stories to the same people. How interesting is that? When new people join and bring questions or experiences it makes for a more rewarding read. I came here because I valued the opinion and knowledge of the people posting here, and it seemed the most logical place to get help. Overwhelmingly, that is what I got.

I hope you don't have to experience what my family has been, for any reasons. It does change a persons actions and personalities do alter, even if only temporarily. I am not a gambling person but facing all we've been has made me a bit less rational than my previous self. If that bothers you RonSSS, then don't read these posts and don't bother commenting.

A very large thank you to Altec Best, who in the truest nature of what blogs and postings are meant to be, spoke up loudly. I will write you privately as some of what you mentioned I didn't know anything about (like the possibility of offering here; which makes more sense than anything I can think of).

Thanks again....

No worries, no further comments from me.

Ron

Quote:

---

You know, come to think of it, I did just fall off the turnip truck.....

C'mon

---

You'd really like Judy Sheindlin's first book, you and i are on the same page.

AB, I might have been the first to defend this person in this thread but I took a much different view when you see what was said and reposted by Ron in post 32. If that doesn't tell you something then...

Bob might be a nice person but there's something about that story that is difficult to swallow. Read his posts again and tell me you don't see something a little out of the ordinary. I don't know the story either but WTF?

I know Cal I saw it too.I just like to try to give Folks a chance before I make any judgments,especially with new members. That's all I was trying to say..

I appreciate that, I was giving the benefit of the doubt also, but as they say...

...there's one born every minute.

Cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cal Weldon

AB, I might have been the first to defend this person in this thread but I took a much different view when you see what was said and reposted by Ron in post 32. If that doesn't tell you something then...

Bob might be a nice person but there's something about that story that is difficult to swallow. Read his posts again and tell me you don't see something a little out of the ordinary. I don't know the story either but WTF?

---

I Have changed my opinion as well..I have to be a little more diplomatic,so was trying to give the benefit.But after talking with him in a couple PM's I now feel he knows exactly what he already had...

We have some good detectives here ! :Big smile:

Also I'm going to edit my posts to reflect that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bowtie427ss

You'd really like Judy Sheindlin's first book, you and i are on the same page.

---

HAHA, I had to Google that! :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill

HAHA, I had to Google that! :-)

---

I even ordered it! One cent plus $3.99 shipping on Amazon.