OT: For the computer music server people
Some interesting things are happening in the world of DACs.
Now I can't seem to bring myself to even think about dropping $5K to over $10K for a DAC. But it seems LiPo battery power is providing a low cost solution to the power supply noise issue and making 'lower then low' noise floors possible for 1/10th of the cost of the heavy's. I've found that with our high sensitivity drivers, you can't get the noise floor too low.
Here's an article from Head-Fi regarding the topic:
The LiFePo4 Battery - A DAC Revolution
John Kenny's JKDAC32 has created a bit of a stir that others seem to be following, but he has just upped the anti with the Ciunas, a non-HiFace based unit that significantly improves on the 32:
https://sites.google.com/site/jkciunas/ciunas-dac
So if you're in the same boat as me, and haven't dropped the big bucks on a DAC yet, then at around $725 USD, this sounds like a super bargain from a guy that "gets it". Since I only have the little Dragonfly DAC at the moment, and use that for my TV server, my order is in the queue for the Ciunas to use with my 300Bs and 604Ds when they're ready. Oooooo-la-la.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Take a look at the Asus Essence One USB DAC. At $599 list and an $899 version with MUSE01 opamps, it's a great bargain with high end sound without the high end price. All versions have replaceable opamps for opamp rollilng. I use it in conjunction with a dedicated music server and swapped out the stock opamps some precision audio only opamps and finanlly get sound that reviles or equals my CD player when playing back lossless formats such as flac. http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus...dac-cebit-2011 is a thread that talks about this DAC and how it sounds with various opamps.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Will do. There is certainly an abundance of good options out there. But anything running off AC, even a wall wart will have inherent noise issues. The LiFePo battery nips that in the bud.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alancohen
Will do. There is certainly an abundance of good options out there. But anything running off AC, even a wall wart will have inherent noise issues. The LiFePo battery nips that in the bud.
True, but a poor man could just rig a battery pack big enough to run the unit a long time and turn the charger off when you play music.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old Guy
True, but a poor man could just rig a battery pack big enough to run the unit a long time and turn the charger off when you play music.
Also true. And while this stuff is way beyond my pay grade, supposedly even a battery has an output impedance and does not guarantee a noiseless circuit. The components around it are vital to the final result. The LiFePo is claimed to be the most stable, and with his charging configuration, reported to be able to last 20 years.
JK has been knee deep in this stuff for a while and I like his philosophy. He doesn't believe in the pomp and circumstance of audio gear. His box is very plain Jane and will not likely improve your social position. It's all about SQ. That resonates with me. And no, $750 is not cheap, but reviews of his earlier device say you need to drop $5K to equal it and the new one is a notch up with a new re-clocking system.
He is also very accessible, a lot like my amp designer. I like that too.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
I'm agnostic. But nothing I've read so far makes me wanna plunk down $750.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
He also lets you trust your own ears and offers a 20-day trial. if you don't think it's worth it, send back for a full refund less shipping.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Good to know. 20 days lets the novelty wear off. And frankly. limited quantity production costs more...but the hoarder in me would rather chase a set of Altecs for that $750. OTOH some will want his device. It's a prime example of niche marketing.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
I have ordered one of these to connect a Soundcraft Compact 4 mixer to my computer. Cost $25, new.
Test: NwAvGuy: Behringer UCA202 Review Very good results.
Anyone got links to tests(not reviews) of 'high end' converters?
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alancohen
There is so much happening so fast in this arena.
That's exactly why I'm in no hurry--I feel like we're at a point in time where if I wait a "little" longer this technology will be even better and the prices will go down further....
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Old Guy
...but the hoarder in me would rather chase a set of Altecs for that $750.
Or a tube preamp, I'm having a hard time 'wrapping my mind around' even the thought of driving 300Bs with ones and zeros.
GM
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Alancohen, thank you for the link. I am, however, looking for objective tests on devices re accurate reproduction of source material.
I have concerns with subjective reviews which factor in a reviewers biases and are based on systems that are dissimilar to mine. There are just too many differing subjective opinions available to get a clear picture. Ultimately an audition is required but choosing what to audition is not made easy by the wide range of DACs available and very little audio performance data.
Consider this sort of test finding on a more expensive product: NwAvGuy: NuForce uDAC-2 Drama - a lot of reading but worthwhile.
I hope the DAC that you mentioned in your OP challenges the much higher priced products. It is hard to see real value in DACs that cost 100 times the price of the UCA202 when you consider that the technology is mature and the components and manufacturing are not expensive.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GM
Or a tube preamp, I'm having a hard time 'wrapping my mind around' even the thought of driving 300Bs with ones and zeros.
Yet it seems that's where we're heading.
I have a decent TT, a great tube phono preamp and a great tube preamp. Soon I will have my 300B OTL monoblocks. When I have (make) the time to just sit and listen, I'm always spinning vinyl.
But streaming ones and zeros is very convenient and represents 80% of my listening time when I'm puttering around the house. Its also a great way to find new music. To not have that experience be as good as it can be would be a waste of all this other hardware.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mah
Alancohen, thank you for the link. I am, however, looking for objective tests on devices re accurate reproduction of source material.
I have concerns with subjective reviews which factor in a reviewers biases and are based on systems that are dissimilar to mine. There are just too many differing subjective opinions available to get a clear picture. Ultimately an audition is required but choosing what to audition is not made easy by the wide range of DACs available and very little audio performance data.
Consider this sort of test finding on a more expensive product:
NwAvGuy: NuForce uDAC-2 Drama - a lot of reading but worthwhile.
I hope the DAC that you mentioned in your OP challenges the much higher priced products. It is hard to see real value in DACs that cost 100 times the price of the UCA202 when you consider that the technology is mature and the components and manufacturing are not expensive.
There is plenty of objective testing. But the problem is most of these devices are so good these days that the results reside in the minutiae and is far too technical for me to comprehend. Once you get to this level, the differences lie in the subjective and what sounds best to the listener. I have to trust what I read from others more qualified than me and then trust my ears.
But if you want to read, this should get you started:
ADI - Analog Dialogue | Data Conversion Handbook
- - - Updated - - -
Quote:
Originally Posted by
voice of the theater
That's exactly why I'm in no hurry--I feel like we're at a point in time where if I wait a "little" longer this technology will be even better and the prices will go down further....
No doubt. But considering I have almost $5K invested in tube preamp, amps, front end and speakers. $750 sounds like a reasonable temperature to jump in the pool and get the most out of it. Especially when pundants I respect are claiming it sounds as good as units 5X the price.
I was going to buy the JKDAC32 at the end of last year, but he stopped selling them in December. I assume because he had the Ciunas on the bench, which represents the next level. These are almost at the point of being ready to ship so I'm getting in at the lead end of this stage of development. Like computers that improve quarterly, you need to get in somewhere and live with what you have until the tech justifies upgrading.
And the $$$ is not going to a big company with big overhead and big hype. It's one guy with a passion for advancing the technology through innovative ideas. I'm happy to support and reward that activity.
And I also have no problem sending it back if it doesn't fit the bill. $30 in shipping charges to get to demo it for 3 weeks is a good deal.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alancohen
No doubt. But considering I have almost $5K invested in tube preamp, amps, front end and speakers. $750 sounds like a reasonable temperature to jump in the pool and get the most out of it. Especially when pundants I respect are claiming it sounds as good as units 5X the price.
........And the $$$ is not going to a big company with big overhead and big hype. It's one guy with a passion for advancing the technology through innovative ideas. I'm happy to support and reward that activity.
And I also have no problem sending it back if it doesn't fit the bill. $30 in shipping charges to get to demo it for 3 weeks is a good deal.
Sounds like a great plan. I mainly listen to vinyl, CD's, and DVD's so I'm not in a rush but considering you're going to get a lot of use immediately out of whichever unit you buy your rationale makes total sense to me.....
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Quote:
Originally Posted by
voice of the theater
Sounds like a great plan. I mainly listen to vinyl, CD's, and DVD's so I'm not in a rush but considering you're going to get a lot of use immediately out of whichever unit you buy your rationale makes total sense to me.....
I thought so.
I'm not the most frugal guy in the world, but I'm far from a spendthrift either. I like to do my research and then let things simmer for a while before taking the plunge. When I start hearing similar things from several unconnected sources I start paying attention. Heck, that's how I found Altec and haven't looked back.
It seems the trend of the ones and zeros crowd is to toss their CD players and move to dedicated music servers. Playing music files from memory instead of "on the fly" from disc has some distinct advantages. A big one is losing the motor. I'm using an early 2009 Mac Mini both as a player and a server. I prefer it in server mode when I'm doing some serious listening, since even the sound of the transport is audible.
The future will be local SS hard drives or remote servers where our music will be stored in the cloud. The technology of these D/A converters will allow for an almost analog musical experience. This will be invaluable since everything recorded in the past 20 (maybe 40) years was recorded as ones and zeros in the first place.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
AC sounds like a great unit, may want to check out the DR database to see whats coming through...I am sure what is stored in many instances will be from a cd type format, for convenience.... and at least you can check your ears or your space and ears....your 5000 system, may be great, dont know haven't heard it...A dac can fix somethings... I know one thing, with my Altecs it is all about system synergy, and source material...price has little to do with it for me..
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Quote:
Originally Posted by
juniper
AC sounds like a great unit, may want to check out the DR database to see whats coming through...I am sure what is stored in many instances will be from a cd type format, for convenience.... and at least you can check your ears or your space and ears....your 5000 dollar preamp may be great, dont know haven't heard it...A dac can fix somethings... I know one thing, with my Altecs it is all about system synergy, and source material...price has little to do with it for me..
The preamp is a kit and was 'only' $500. The front end is a Mac Mini, which runs $599, but I had my son's old one already. My 604Ds were $1100 w/ cabs. It's the 300B monoblocks at $2300 including (8) 300B tubes that is the lion share of the $$$.
So given that, $750 for a top shelf DAC is not out of place. This thing can do 32/192kHz sampling natively, possibly 384 in the new configuration. This makes it almost future proof, at least in my lifetime. Now all I need is source material that good.
Re: OT: For the computer music server people
Alancohen, thank you for the link to the ADI-Analog Dialogue/Data Conversion Handbook. I took the time to read it and it was time well spent.
For those who would prefer a summary of that reference, this article is close to the mark: http://www.clir.org/pubs/resources/a...s-pohlmann.pdf It also touches on methodical subjective auditioning.
Another good article(NASA): http://radhome.gsfc.nasa.gov/radhome...sis_Poivey.pdf
