I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

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April 26th, 2013, 11:41 PM
cradeldorf

I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

2.3 Inductor on the LF. 9.1 cap on the HF. 9.1 cap/15 ohm resistor for the LF zobel and a 2uf cap across the hf wires. It's the only choice I have short of having them not sound good. 515's are garbage much above 1000hz. Still deafening and still working. even being driven with my 90 watt SS amp.

PinkFloydNew | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Edit: I changed the HF cap to 9.1uf
April 27th, 2013, 07:19 AM
bowtie427ss

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Original 604's were crossed at 1000(and are to this day perhaps the best sounding 604 particularly through the XO region).;)
April 27th, 2013, 08:55 AM
juniper

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

I cross my g's at 1250, but I try to be very careful with the volume knob...
April 27th, 2013, 09:08 AM
bowtie427ss

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by juniper

I cross my g's at 1250, but I try to be very careful with the volume knob...

Unless you're running a mild slope like 6db/oct, you're probably safer than you think.;)

I'm not saying you should try to push your 300 watt amp to clipping on them, but i think your ears will tell you when you're stepping on the danger threshold.
April 28th, 2013, 12:32 AM
donaldpatten

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Cradeldorf
I never did think of the 1600 XO freq as golden.To me the magic was how it sounds. If you would like to do some listening tests PM me.
Don
April 28th, 2013, 01:09 AM
cradeldorf

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

A buddy stopped over today and confirmed that they sound better than he's ever heard. Like I said over on AK if a 515 is indeed what the woofer section is, they are rated at 20-1000hz why they mated that with a horn that shouldn't be driven below 1600 is beyond me. Juniper All I'm gonna say is mine go well into the ear splitting level without batting an eye. I can almost hear them laughing. :D
Don they sound much more like they should this way. :)
April 28th, 2013, 10:33 PM
zelgall

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

I've read that 604 E to the last sectoral before the CD types were only providing driver loading to about 1900 Hz but the Altec standard Xover is 1600 Hz
April 29th, 2013, 01:24 AM
cradeldorf

1 Attachment(s)

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgall

I've read that 604 E to the last sectoral before the CD types were only providing driver loading to about 1900 Hz but the Altec standard Xover is 1600 Hz

I could never grasp the concept of loading since the phragm is barely moving in the first place and then every bit of air it is moving has to pass through 3 little human hair sized slits in the phase plug?
I can't imagine I could load the horn if I put my lips on the phase plug and blew as hard as I could. That is if my definition of loading means building some kind of back pressure from the air trapped in the horn tube and horn assembly itself. I would surely think the phase plug is what provides loading if there is to be any.
April 29th, 2013, 05:23 AM
Altec Best

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cradeldorf

I could never grasp the concept of loading since the phragm is barely moving in the first place and then every bit of air it is moving has to pass through 3 little human hair sized slits in the phase plug?

Think of the diaphragm that is like a tuning fork.When you wrap on the edge of the tuning fork it puts out a lot of sound but you won't see it moving much.It is the tremendous amount of vibrations in such a short time that creates the output or (SPL).Or something like that.
April 29th, 2013, 02:59 PM
cradeldorf

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altec Best

Think of the diaphragm that is like a tuning fork.When you wrap on the edge of the tuning fork it puts out a lot of sound but you won't see it moving much.It is the tremendous amount of vibrations in such a short time that creates the output or (SPL).Or something like that.

Okay, that draws a better picture in my head. Thanks.
April 29th, 2013, 03:38 PM
alancohen

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

I still haven't built my XOs yet. After reading this thread I might try bi-amping my 604Ds with my Behringer DCX2496 first. Problem is I don't have enough amps and don't want to cannibalize my daily system to experiment. I might build another one of these: Transcendent Sound Cathode Follower Tube Amp and use it along with the one I have running my BR TV system to play with the 604s. They are a really sweet 3W/ch and I think I had around $500 all up into the scratch build of the first one. That's pretty cheap for a pure SE tubey.
May 3rd, 2013, 01:04 AM
cradeldorf

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

I stuffed the crossover back inside the cabinet today, then uncovered the front vent and put the full backs on. A different buddy stopped over and I let him have it with them....He was pretty much awestruck at how they sounded. It's fun sending them home like that. :) Funny thing is that he was over a month ago when they were sounding horrible. He approved that they were 1000's of times better now.
May 8th, 2013, 06:27 AM
sanhanul

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cradeldorf

A different buddy stopped over and I let him have with them....He was pretty much awestruck at how they sounded. It's fun sending them home like that. :) Funny thing is that he was over a month ago when they were sounding horrible. He approved that they were 1000's of times better now.

that's encouraging me a lot to start the project of the Zobel crossover.
May 8th, 2013, 12:26 PM
Alien_Shore

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alancohen

I still haven't built my XOs yet. After reading this thread I might try bi-amping my 604Ds with my Behringer DCX2496 first. Problem is I don't have enough amps and don't want to cannibalize my daily system to experiment. I might build another one of these: Transcendent Sound Cathode Follower Tube Amp and use it along with the one I have running my BR TV system to play with the 604s. They are a really sweet 3W/ch and I think I had around $500 all up into the scratch build of the first one. That's pretty cheap for a pure SE tubey.

Alan,
does the transcendent plan come with a BOM? If so would you mind sharing? I'm thinking about building another tube amp and this one looks promising.
May 8th, 2013, 04:28 PM
alancohen

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

It does. I had to source the parts from 3 suppliers. I wish I kept my receipts; I'm planning on building 2 more.

It also comes with step by step wiring instructions. The hardest part of the job is laying out and drilling the holes in the chassis. I bought a cheap step drill bit and it worked just fine. Get an aluminum chassis, not steel.

Here is a link to the TS forum and my build thread:

CFA Build... - Transcendent Sound Message Board

The plan calls for a laminated power tranny, but there is an inexpensive toroid available for 1/3 the price http://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=673 and it makes it even more quiet. It tells all in the thread. It was my first scratch build and I received lots of help from the regulars.

It is a wonderful amp. Not much to look at, but very liquid and musical. It's rated at 3W steady state, but it sounds more like 10.

If you decide to do it, contact me for the big filter caps. It takes 3 and they are about $25/ea retail. I have a bunch. I'll sell you all 3 for $25.
May 8th, 2013, 05:28 PM
Phil-G

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

the flicker link is no longer any good. :(
May 8th, 2013, 07:55 PM
cradeldorf

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil-G

the flicker link is no longer any good. :(

Which flicker link? I just hit both of mine without a problem although the crossover is not the correct one? You have to plug in the numbers from the original post from this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanhanul

that's encouraging me a lot to start the project of the Zobel crossover.

I'm still running them this way Sanhanul...very happy with them now. :)
May 8th, 2013, 08:27 PM
Phil-G

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

the flicker links in the thread alan linked to. i wanted to check out his tube amp. :)
May 8th, 2013, 10:28 PM
alancohen

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil-G

the flicker links in the thread alan linked to. i wanted to check out his tube amp. :)

Yeah, I cleaned up my Flickr account a while ago. Thankfully, I still have all the pics on my local drive. I can't restore them to the build thread links, but I uploaded them back to Flickr.

Here's a link to the set: CFA - a set on Flickr You'll have to figure out which images go with which post.
May 9th, 2013, 01:42 AM
cradeldorf

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alancohen

Yeah, I cleaned up my Flickr account a while ago. Thankfully, I still have all the pics on my local drive. I can't restore them to the build thread links, but I uploaded them back to Flickr.

Here's a link to the set: CFA - a set on Flickr You'll have to figure out which images go with which post.

The thumbnails are to the right but when you click on them they do nothing?..
May 9th, 2013, 06:14 AM
alancohen

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cradeldorf

The thumbnails are to the right but when you click on them they do nothing?..

They do on my computer. Try clicking on the larger image to the left and advancing one by one and see if it works.
May 9th, 2013, 01:32 PM
cradeldorf

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alancohen

They do on my computer. Try clicking on the larger image to the left and advancing one by one and see if it works.

yep your right that works. Sorry. Awesome build by the way. :)
May 9th, 2013, 02:37 PM
alancohen

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cradeldorf

Awesome build by the way. :)

It was as near as I will ever experience to giving birth.
May 9th, 2013, 06:07 PM
amandarae

Re: I'm running my 604's at a crossover point of 1150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alancohen

I still haven't built my XOs yet. After reading this thread I might try bi-amping my 604Ds with my Behringer DCX2496 first. Problem is I don't have enough amps and don't want to cannibalize my daily system to experiment. I might build another one of these: Transcendent Sound Cathode Follower Tube Amp and use it along with the one I have running my BR TV system to play with the 604s. They are a really sweet 3W/ch and I think I had around $500 all up into the scratch build of the first one. That's pretty cheap for a pure SE tubey.

You should check out TubeLab SE and Tubelab SE as well. You can build the amps at almost the same cost($500, or much much more depending on parts and transformers use), but the SSE can use 5881, 6550, KT66, EL-34, 6L6. I built several amps, and to me the Tubelab is the closest sounding Triode strapped Pentode SE amp to a true DHT SET amp using 45,2A3, and 300B(all of which I have). Excellent sounding with my Altec drivers. I am not affiliated to Tubelab by any means, just making a suggestion.

My amps
http://imageshack.us/a/img9/853/tubelabamps058.jpg SE(581/300B) on the left, SSE(using EL34) at the right.

Abe