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Picked up a damaged Lansing 515B with a torn cone/surround for cheap at an estate sale. I guess I'll send it to Bill H. for repair/recharge. Anyone put a date on it?
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I believe the 515B was made between 1955 to 1978, so according to the Manufacture Date Code of 391322 it was been made in the 22nd week of either 1963 or 1973. I'd vote for 1963 due to the low cone part number. Jeff
The 22nd week of 53? or 43...
I'm betting 1963, since my paper surround 515s were made in 1953Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
I was just going by the paint, The First speakers they made were black crinkle paint like yours, then in 54 they were green like on my 604 c's by 64 they were the gray and white paint scheme and then they went to just flat black. I suspect this was reconed at some time with an accordion surround. So I'm gonna go out on a limb say It's a 43 that has been reconed.
+1 I think Jeff hit the nail on the head... 1963.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarkwart
Sorry, but I'm already dating two 515Bs. I just don't see where I could find the time to date a third.
The black crinkle has been used off and on, don't trust that to date it.
From the cone number I'm in the same ballpark as Jeff.
Always the rare possibility an NOS cone kit was used to fix them, then all bets are off.
1975 cones for 515B are 21092. I'm sorta leaning for 73. And next likely 63.
1956 Groundbreaking for Anaheim Facility, since his speaker says Anaheim I'm gonna have to change my guess to 63. :)
I'm going to guess 1984*....... somebody has to be out there, on the high side, for a proper bell curve! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
*I really have no idea :D
Right, my '55s are black crinkle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
GM
'73 as evidenced by the square QC/inspector's stamp.
great minds think alike:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
What about the early cone part number then?
Most 515B are 21184.
Works for me since a NIB matched pair of '71 421-8H [391142] have this version of the stamp.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
WRT any diaphragm assy. anomalies, no clue about this one, but do know from experience that if a new driver was spec'd to either replace an earlier version and/or to match up with a very high output impedance system there was no telling what was required to get the right 'balance' of specs with then available parts.
GM
What time period was the square stamp used ?Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
I have a square QC stamp on my 64 604E, but mine doesn't have a line through the middle of it.
Is the cone number 21184 with no additional revision numbers(without -2 or -3 after it)?Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
Out of curiosity, how do you know it's '64 and not '74?
Mid 60's(nobody seems to know exactly when they started) thru 1980-81.Quote:
What time period was the square stamp used ?
You are assuming it is early. It likely is not. The 75 cone number I posted above is almost the same. 21090 for this one. 21092 on the 1975 sheet.Quote:
Originally Posted by magnarc
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I guess I automatically assumed that as they progressed through the years that they no longer made the old models. That's why I figured that a 515 B was an early driver. I was not aware that they continued to make "B" models all the way into the 70's. I was wrong my 604 does have a line through the QC mark. and the cone number appears to be followed by a 3. I do not know whether it's a 64 or 74 other than I figured once they started making the g's h's and k's that they no longer made the E models.
"If" it's the original cone, i'm pretty confident that your 604E is 1974 vintage. 21184-3 would be a late, and perhaps the final revision of that cone.Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
Thanks for the heads up on that Bowtie. :)
FWIW, the last ones I ordered was in either '85 or '86, though by then they were 'stupid' expensive, but it wasn't my money.Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
GM
Yes the 604E ended production in 1974 I'm pretty sure.It was no longer available after that when they started phasing in the 604G's with the new Tangerine phase plugs circa 1975..As for the 21184 cones there has been 5 revisions of that cone that I'm aware of but could be more.. 21184-2,3,4,8 AFAIK..
AFAIK, the majority of 604G's have annular steel phase plugs. The cost cutting plastic plug came along in '76 near the end of 604G's production. Ironically, about exactly the same time period Urei abandoned them because of QC problems. While they weren't cataloged, i'm pretty sure you could get new 604E's into the 2nd half of the 70's. I don't pretend to know if 604E and 604G were produced concurrently or not. But, i suspect they were for at least a short period. They were still offering 605B's and 604G's at the same time in 1974.Quote:
when they started phasing in the 604G's with the new Tangerine phase plugs circa 1975.
I probably shouldn't have used the word "revision" as it implies a change was made. I think the cones are all essentially identical, and those suffix digits indicate manufacturing lots, time periods, and possibly even various suppliers.Quote:
.As for the 21184 cones there has been 5 revisions of that cone that I'm aware of but could be more.. 21184-2,3,4,8 AFAIK..
IIRC, it was suggested to me that only the first few were used in production of drivers and cone kits, the remainders were in re-cone kits only.
It is certainly possible that cradledorf's E was an early one, and was re-coned at some point.
Isn't 21092 the actual VC and former, being separate from the actual cone, which usually is 21184-x
Hmmmmmmm, a "full kit" versus just a bare cone?Quote:
Originally Posted by magnarc
Interesting.
Logical.
More confusing as the same kit number from different time periods could contain cones of different numbers. Kind of sounds like something Altec would have done. ;)
As were mine.My 604G's have the annular plugs.. Another change was the new 23744 diaphragm... I'm almost certain that production of the 604E ceased sometime in late 1974 to early 1975.. The production of the units changed significantly from the gray/white color to the gray metallic color.. You could be right though... It would be interesting to see some date codes from some of the 604E units.. That would be the only way to know for sure IMHO, if someone had a unit with a late 70's date code.Quote:
AFAIK, the majority of 604G's have annular steel phase plugs. While they weren't cataloged, i'm pretty sure you could get new 604E's into the 2nd half of the 70's.
Newest E I saw was dated 1976...not sure, but I recall seeing a pair with tangerines, it may have been that pair. We are talking 30 years and many speakers ago....
I heard the end of the G's were the first with the Tangerine.
Yeah, Altec was getting really sloppy WRT QA by the mid '70s and we now know it got much worse over time, but according to my records [a compilation of mine and others info posted on various forums early on], the 16 ohm E [which officially ended in '72] overlapped the E2/8G overlapping production and some of each had Tangerines with nothing AFAIK to distinguish them without looking at the phase plug except possibly on the invoice same as the 'custom' 515Bs I ordered that listed an assembly order #.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
GM
- - - Updated - - -
According to Jim Dickinson: "The first 604 with a Tangerine plug was the alnico 604-HPLN, which had the C-D-G "eggcrate" horn and a 421 LF voice coil, was made for MI uses."Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon
GM
Back to the 515B.Old Guy replied that in 1975 the 515B used a 21902 Cone & V.C. Assembly. I just found an old listing from 1965 that shows 21092 was used on the 515B then too. I cannot find a listing for 21090. Does anybody have a pre 1965 Diaphragm/Voice Coil Assembly list from Altec? Jeff
As far as i can gather, 21090 is the original CONE number for the 803B. Perhaps it also ran over into the earliest 416's. That being the case, does a 21090 cone even belong in a 515B?
Yup ! Soon as you think you seen it all here comes something else down the pike.Quote:
Yeah, Altec was getting really sloppy WRT QA by the mid '70s
Quote:
Back to the 515B.Old Guy replied that in 1975 the 515B used a 21902 Cone & V.C. Assembly. I just found an old listing from 1965 that shows 21092 was used on the 515B then too. I cannot find a listing for 21090. Does anybody have a pre 1965 Diaphragm/Voice Coil Assembly list from Altec? Jeff
Could the 21092 be a new revision of the 21090 cone that seen very limited production ? Maybe a small change to the 21090 cone ? Like we have seen on the 21184 cones.As there doesn't seem to be any reference to it anywhere..Quote:
As far as i can gather, 21090 is the original CONE number for the 803B. Perhaps it also ran over into the earliest 416's. That being the case, does a 21090 cone even belong in a 515B?
I think Magnarc was spot on in that 21092 is a complete cone kit w/voice coil, damper, dust cap, and probably gasket. The '75 reference guide refers to the part number as an "assembly" if i'm interpreting the "ASSY" abbreviation correctly. That said, it could contain whatever part number cone was du jour.Quote:
Could the 21092 be a new revision of the 21090 cone that seen very limited production ?
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Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
Altec parts could be bought preassembled or separate, at least in the early 70's. Someone may have made up a kit from what was laying around. We will never know for sure.
Well, I'm glad I could provide you all with some entertainment and yet another Altec conundrum. I wouldn't have had a shot at this driver if some fool didn't set this cone side upon the floor near the check out register of the estate sale, and another fool hadn't of stuck his foot through the cone...
My point is Altec numbers don't necessarily go in sequence, a lower number does not guarantee age. Be careful regarding assumptions. It does appear an 803 cone somehow wound up there. As I said, some reconer may have pieced together a kit. For that matter an 803 kit may well fit. Never tried it. I always used proper Altec kits.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
I wish i had paid more attention to the hundreds of Altec cone kits that have sold on ebay over the years. Back in the late 90's when i first got bit by the ebay bug there were at least a dozen factory cone kits listed at any given time. Seems like there was a seller right in OKC that must have had a small warehouse full of cone kits, diaphragms, and VOT decals. The sellers who took good pics would often reveal the full contents of the kits, and IIRC, the kit contents were also listed by part number on the box label. Just don't see any Altec kits pop up anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
Yeah that guy. Way overpriced. I recall a warehouse clearance way back, guys were selling new Gauss drivers years later. Didn't go, was just too busy back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss