OT - Officially getting into the audio business

You heard it here first. And, there's even an Altec twist to the story which I'll get to...

Anyway, I have been hanging out with a buddy of mine, a very well respected legend in the audio business, Dennis J. Had, founder of Cary Audio Design. when I first met Dennis right after he left Cary, he was fiddling around with rebuilding and modifying vintage tube amps on his kitchen table. I guess this was mainly due to his non-compete clause with Cary, but at the time, I don't think he had really decided which direction he wanted to take with respect to further endeavors, and I think he was also still smarting from the less than warm send off he got from his former partner and chief bean counter, now CEO.

Anyway, I started in on him, giving him grief about soldering on his kitchen table, and how he needed to get him a little space of his own, even if he couldn't really get back into the business right then. eventually he rented a 700 sq ft space inside the industrial park where he by coincidence, also started Cary. One thing led to another, and he is now back in business building custom made single ended tube amps, mainly using single ended pentode (6BQ5) and single ended beam tetrode. (6L6, 807, KT-88, etc) What I know about tube amps would rattle inside a thimble, but I have been fortunate to act as Dennis' foil, gadfly if you will, bringing him amps to look at, and tubes to play with, and filling his ears with off the wall ideas, most of which he ignores, but some of which he uses.

For quite awhile now, he has been complaining about not being able to find a good cheap reliable cabinet maker to build him some boxes to branch out into speakers. At one point during his Cary reign, he started messing with some speaker designs on a whim, and soon spun off Soliloquy speakers. Apparently the itch has never left him, and maybe 6 months ago, I got an idea.

Turns out that a good friend of mine from Boy Scouts is the Chief Designer/CTO of a CNC router company called ShopBot, and used to be a carpenter and cabinet maker. After chatting with him, I found out that not only was he interested in and enjoyed audio gear, he had always wanted to build speakers. At this point, the wood was really staring to smoke....:) So, I told Dennis that we would build him some speakers. I don't remember if he laughed at the time, but I would have. Anyway, I introduced him to my friend, and we sat down and started talking about design. Originally Dennis wanted to build a set of transmission line speakers, similar to a set of SONY TL-5's I had loaned him, and also I believe, similar to some of the Sililoquys. I still have that design, stashed away, but after some additional discussion, we decided to build a set of open baffle speakers similar to another set of prototypes Dennis had built, but smaller, as to easily fit within UPS/FedEx shipping limitations. We settled on a dual 10" woofer surrounding a 1 1/8" dome tweeter. We left the TL port in the new design, partly to eventually have a design commonality with some future TL designs, and also to be able to display a logo.

The initial design looked something like this...

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2013/10/7.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2013/10/8.jpg

I do have to say, it's really nice having a CNC router in your garage.....(click picture for video)

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2013/10/9.jpg

We got some of these boxes built, and then decided to modify the design, thin out the back and make it a bit more delicate, almost mimicking the shape of a wine bottle.


I won't go into how many iterations we went through or all the hours of work that got tossed into the failure pile, but here's where we are now....

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/10.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/11.jpg


http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/12.jpg

I've learned a lot about woodworking, and have also learned to hate sandpaper. I know how to bookend veneer, and why better quality plywood is worth the money.

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/13.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/14.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/15.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/16.jpg


And after many months of hard work, we are just about ready for prime time...

The Karilian Birch model

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/17.jpg

The Ziracote model

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/18.jpg

and a slightly less fancy model, the Natural.....

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/19.jpg

Dennis will get a professional photographer in this week to do some glamour shots, and we will be off to the races. For now this will be a small e-bay store type operation, but if things take off, we are positioned to transition to a more mass production type assembly process, but that's definitely putting the cart before the horse.

Now the important question....How do they sound? Dennis says they sound way better than any of the Soliliquy speakers, and he is excited as a little boy in a candy store. I personally think they are amazing sounding speakers, despite the fact that I helped design and build them. The idea was to create speakers that mated well with Dennis' Inspire amps, and believe me, they do. But, only time will tell.

Now, how does the Altec teaser fit in? Well, did anyone notice anything else in the Ziracote picture?

Like that 604-8G sitting next to it? Well, assuming we have some down time while Dennis gets the sales machine geared up, we have already finalized in theory a wider design specifically meant for a 604 driver. Dennis is already mumbling about a 3rd order crossover design, and I'm hoping to get a prototype pair built sometime before the end of the year. Anyone know where I might be able to find a steady supply of new 604 drivers?.....:p


Wish us luck!

Great looking speakers--you've obviously put together a very talented team. I hope they're a huge success and even more so once you introduce the 604 model(s)....

BTW, what drivers are you using in them? Do you have any measurements/specs on the finished product yet?

Wow what a fun journey. I'm jealous and many of us would like to quit our day jobs and do something audio related. Keep us up to date on how the organization is doing. It all looks great.

The dual woofer design is to bump up the efficiency. We don't have actual numbers yet, but Dennis estimates 90 db/w/m. We haven't done measurements either, steering by Dennis' golden ear, but I need to invite panomaniac to stop by with his 'puter and mics.....

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Originally Posted by mattvandyke

Wow what a fun journey. I'm jealous and many of us would like to quit our day jobs and do something audio related. Keep us up to date on how the organization is doing. It all looks great.

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It is the fulfillment of a high school kid's dream, since I started messing with speakers in my parent's basement. The trick now is balancing dreams versus reality, optimism with pragmatism. One step at a time, and save the fantasies of semi retiring and running a big speaker company for beers and lies with my buddies.....

Speaking of Pano, how's he been?

I dunno. He's been quiet lately. E-mailed him earlier today, but no answer as of yet....

Heard from Pano this afternoon. Should hopefully have him by Dennis' shop soon...

Wishing you guys all the best, Looks like you got a good looking product but the proof will be in the pudding.... er...numbers. :)

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Originally Posted by Old Guy

Speaking of Pano, how's he been?

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He's fine I think. He had to miss the BAF in San Fran last weekend so he's unhappy but aside from that I think he's better.

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Good looking cabinets AA. I am curious about the spacing of the drivers and placement of the tweeter. Please tell us more, including the XO.

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Originally Posted by Cal Weldon

He's fine I think. He had to miss the BAF in San Fran last weekend so he's unhappy but aside from that I think he's better.

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Good looking cabinets AA. I am curious about the spacing of the drivers and placement of the tweeter. Please tell us more, including the XO.

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Pano is working full steam ahead, so he apparently is doing fine. He will bring his measurement gear by the shop this Sat, so we will see what he thinks. As a neutral bystander I would value his opinion.

I don't remember specifically about the driver placement. When we started with the TL design, the woofer was over the tweeter (see ShopBot video above). When he added the second woofer to bump up the efficiency by 3db, it may just have been looks and symmetry, but I won't for a moment tell you I know what's going on inside his head. There may very well be other reasons/prior experience involved as well.

As far as the crossovers go, Dennis is constantly twiddling with them. I believe they are either 3rd or 4th order, with all quality components like Solen caps and high purity copper inductors. As far as the actual circuit goes, I don't have a clue, and I'll bet Dennis wants to keep that close to the vest for now. I know he's discussed on starting with a 3rd order crossover for the 604. We are planning on doing the computer work/drawing for the 604 based speaker tomorrow evening....

once you get measurements it should be a lot easier coming up with a crossover. :)

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Originally Posted by cradeldorf

once you get measurements it should be a lot easier coming up with a crossover. :)

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Heh, You've never been around one Dennis J. Had. He's hooked up just the 802 and listened to it at his shop, and has a basic design in mind. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets it finalized on Sat with one or two sweeps of Pano's analyzer....

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Originally Posted by analog addict

Heh, You've never been around one Dennis J. Had. He's hooked up just the 802 and listened to it at his shop, and has a basic design in mind. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets it finalized on Sat with one or two sweeps of Pano's analyzer....

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No I haven't been around him but you make him sound like somebody I wish I was around. :)

Decided that if Pano was going to come over to Dennis' shop, might as well kill two birds with one stone. So.....

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/21.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/22.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2013/10/23.jpg


We threw these together out of some reject parts and spare scraps so that we could make some measurements on a set of prototype crossovers. Should be an interesting day....

I sure would like to have a little time on that CNC router..Once you have a design laid out it should be able to spit out panels very quickly.. Nice Setup AA ! What brand CNC is that AA ? Looks like a 48" x 96" ?

My other partner is the Director for Development of ShopBot, essentially the CTO.

http://www.shopbottools.com/products.htm

And yes, it's an older full sized, capable of handling a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood. He also has a smaller one, also bought surplus from the company which is still sitting at the factory, waiting for us to find space in his garage....

Those routers are Sweet...I have some room in my garage if you need it.. :biggrin2:

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Originally Posted by Altec Best

Those routers are Sweet...I have some room in my garage if you need it.. :biggrin2:

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Beat me to it:p

Had a good time over there yesterday. Thanks to AA for inviting me. It's a 3 hour round trip, but well worth it. The cabinets are very, very nice. The guys have done a super job.
The MTMs were very smooth, very pleasant. Measure well, too. Then we hooked up the 604s. Oops! Both HF 'frams were fried. Dennis (with a little help from me) managed to solder back together the bunt leads. And they worked!

My prediction was "No Bass" for the 604 on the small open baffle. All it took was a battery click test to confirm that. But we plowed ahead, anyway. Dennis came up with a 1st try crossover that was not too far off. I did measurements, suggested possible problem areas and fixes - and Denis jumped right to it. After a few tries we had a darn good starting crossover - not easy with an Altec 604 on open baffle. The work speed was impressive. By the end of the afternoon, they were sounding pretty darn good. A very different presentation from the MTM OB. 604 much more dynamic, more precise, more "live" sounding. Of course some of that was a bump in the upper midrange we hadn't tamed (horn) but not all. You can't mistake that Altec sound.

Dennis didn't like those blue Urei horns, so pulled them off. I measured. Not bad. The tweeter doesn't go as low without them, but it kinda sounds better. Measured there was now a dip circa 2K without the horn. I' will post photos and graphs later today after work.

Enjoyed it Pano. Been too long. Anyway, as I expected, it didn't take Dennis long to get the 604's really close. I think he'll still tweak them a bit more, but I expect these to be minor changes. As Dennis tweaks, we'll be working on an attenuated horn via 3-D printer.....

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Originally Posted by Panomaniac

Had a good time over there yesterday. Thanks to AA for inviting me. It's a 3 hour round trip, but well worth it. The cabinets are very, very nice. The guys have done a super job.
The MTMs were very smooth, very pleasant. Measure well, too. Then we hooked up the 604s. Oops! Both HF 'frams were fried. Dennis (with a little help from me) managed to solder back together the bunt leads. And they worked!

My prediction was "No Bass" for the 604 on the small open baffle. All it took was a battery click test to confirm that. But we plowed ahead, anyway. Dennis came up with a 1st try crossover that was not too far off. I did measurements, suggested possible problem areas and fixes - and Denis jumped right to it. After a few tries we had a darn good starting crossover - not easy with an Altec 604 on open baffle. The work speed was impressive. By the end of the afternoon, they were sounding pretty darn good. A very different presentation from the MTM OB. 604 much more dynamic, more precise, more "live" sounding. Of course some of that was a bump in the upper midrange we hadn't tamed (horn) but not all. You can't mistake that Altec sound.

Dennis didn't like those blue Urei horns, so pulled them off. I measured. Not bad. The tweeter doesn't go as low without them, but it kinda sounds better. Measured there was now a dip circa 2K without the horn. I' will post photos and graphs later today after work.

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Good to hear from you stranger ! Did you guys have the little multi horn to replace the Urei horn ?

Wow..that CNC router.. wish I had one too.

I do have a set of 604-8G with the multi cells as well, but I haven't brought them over to the shop, nor have I tried to take the little horn off the driver. Is that easily possible?

I think the idea of a 3D printed multicell is great. Not hard to go thru a few trials to get what you want. Look forward to seeing it.

First step, the mating flange....

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2013/11/5.jpg

http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2013/11/6.jpg

Let me know when the 604/604B style horns are ready. ;)

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Originally Posted by bowtie427ss

Let me know when the 604/604B style horns are ready. ;)

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Talked about that style of horn, but have an even more radical design in the works.....