The physical aspects of drumming . . . building endurance and speed

Hellooo fellow drummers! Great to finally register here. I've been browsing for a long time but I guess I just never got around to registering.

Anyway, getting to the topic. While it is not the most important thing, I am very serious about developing a high level of endurance and speed with hands and feet.

When working on things such as endurance and speed, do you recommend working on certain exercises every other day, as one would do, say, working out at the gym? By this I mean, once I have played something like the Power Drumming exercises (not that I can play those high tempi yet), and I can feel a good amount of physical fatigue, should I take a day break to let my muscles rest and build or should I work on it every day? I haven't quite analyzed my improvement enough to tell which would be better, so I'm interesting to get some opinions.

And if taking a break every other day is the answer, would anyone recommend, say, working on single stroke speed/endurance (with the feet) one day, and then doing the same for doubles the next day and alternating that way? The same applies for the hands; would working on wrist strokes one day and then finger strokes the next be ideal?

And I've also been told just lifting some free weights might help a good bit, too. And I've also started working on my flexibility more, and that's shown good results.

Thanks,
Chris

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

note: Again, I do not in any way consider technical skill to be the most important thing about drums, or music in general; but it does have a certain degree of importantance, and that is what I am asking about.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 03, 2003 06:55 PM: Message edited by: Ant Man Bee ]</font>

Unlike weights, taking a break won't really do anything for you. It really is just practicing on a consistant basis first slowly abnd gradually bring the tempo up a few notches each time.

Thank you. That's just the answer I needed.

I would recommend working with a drumometer and a metronome.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by peter c:
Chris,

I don't think he was being
sarcastic. A lot of young
players have not worked with
a metronome. The drumometer
will test/measure your speed.

They both could be helpful.

You have heard me talk a little
about this subject already. I
just want to again encourage
you to be deliberate in your
approach, focusing on what you
think needs work.

FlamTriplet and the rest of the
guys here have been around the
block a few times and have good
perspectives that we should al-
ways be, at least, open to.

Regards,

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks again, the encouragement is always appreciated. I guess sometimes I get down on myself because I feel like I'm not meeting my personal standards (which I have a habit of setting very high, no matter what it may be).

And yes, I do try and stay open to all opinions, especially from the members here. I've read about the drumometer a bit, but I'm not sure where to get it and if it's really worth it. Any other advice on that, guys?

I recently checked out Thomas Lang's website. He's certainly one of the fastest drummers that I've ever seen and he claims that he doesn't work on speed but he focuses on precision. This has been my experience, speed only comes after hours of working out technique slowly, cleanly and with a metronome. And it would be better to practice everyday than to rest every other day as in weightlifting.

Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by FlamTriplet:
I would recommend working with a drumometer and a metronome.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you being sarcastic?

Anyway, I would say working with a metronome is a given. Never tried a drumometer, though.

Chris,

I don't think he was being
sarcastic. A lot of young
players have not worked with
a metronome. The drumometer
will test/measure your speed.

They both could be helpful.

You have heard me talk a little
about this subject already. I
just want to again encourage
you to be deliberate in your
approach, focusing on what you
think needs work.

FlamTriplet and the rest of the
guys here have been around the
block a few times and have good
perspectives that we should al-
ways be, at least, open to.

Regards,

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Andy Vermiglio:
I recently checked out Thomas Lang's website. He's certainly one of the fastest drummers that I've ever seen and he claims that he doesn't work on speed but he focuses on precision. This has been my experience, speed only comes after hours of working out technique slowly, cleanly and with a metronome. And it would be better to practice everyday than to rest every other day as in weightlifting.

Good luck!

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I read that too. I completely agree with the control aspect. There's no use even ATTEMPTING to play something fast if one cannot first control it at a slow tempo (with a metronome, of course [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

Thanks for all the help guys [img]smile.gif[/img] .

edit: Speaking of Thomas Lang . . . I can't wait for "Groove Control" to come out. I don't know if I can wait another month [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img] !

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 04, 2003 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Ant Man Bee ]</font>

I agree w/ every body regarding getting to it daily. Working on your hands every day will definitely bring results but, always remember to practice with NO tension, stiffness, and strain. If you are going to put in the hours, make sure you don't develop bad habits doing so.

What exactly does the Drumometer tell you? how many strokes a minute? does it have a built-in metronome of some sort? In any case you will be charting out your progress in some way. Writing out every metronome marking from 50bpm-144bpm and writing down how many sixteenths (1/4=metronome pulse) you can play with each hand up to 100 and then 32nds with both hands has worked for me. I'm not sure but I think Joe Morello came up with this system for his students. A version of this chart is in Kim Plainfield's, "Advanced Concepts" book. You can apply this chart to finger control, stick heights and dynamics, tympani grips, Moeller and other kinds of motions. It takes around 45-60 minutes to go through every marking and 2 attempts per LH, RH, and both hands.
One other thing is try to make the chart musical in some way especially for the slow tempos. I like to count the sixteenths in bars of 4 and concentrate on getting it exactly with the click. This can help with hearing and relaxing with the slow tempos.

Good Luck!

You can check out a little vid about the drumometer at drumometer.com

Thanks Pete!

No, I am not being sarcastic. Working with a drumometer is fun. Set it for 10 seconds and go, it will count how many strokes you play. This is like sprinting. Set it for 60 seconds and it's like a marathon.
And it is a lot more fun if you have a room full of drummers going back and forth.

You can also use the d-meter with a metronome to see if you are accurately playing the correct amount of strokes at a certain tempo and time period.

The only music that is concerned with endurance speed is death metal and uptempo jazz. So listening to these kinds of music is important as well. It's like training your brain to think fast, which is basically what technique is. You must feel and hear all the notes you play.

You can also pick up Jim Chapins Speed and Technique video, which is excellent.

Art Verdi has a 10 second record for single strokes at 220.

What everyone above suggested, you should definitely employ.

For your hands you should check Morello's Master studies,i love that method, worked wonders, decent concise text too.

For your feet Colin Baileys Bass drum control book. As valuable as 'Master Studies'.

In fact those 2 method books should be sold as a set.

I personally rarely take breaks, not because im macho or something, but for the sheer fact that i waver with being spastically uncoordinated to being sublimely smooooth. That being said, i value muscle memorization that comes with rigourous practicing. But thats obviously a personal perspective. I do have natural breaks if im exhausted from shows and the riguers of life.


Im never with out a practice pad................

best of luck......practice like u need it to survive........love and respect.......beats

I pretty much echo Beats suggestions and whomever mentioned Lang's sentiments about working on precision rather than just trying to attein speed.

There's so much that could be mention on this particular subject but i'll stick with a logical thought: PRACTICE

The pillow method is really good to build up basic hand speed, sum "drum gurus" don't recommend it in which case a "gel pad" might a replacement. Do all your rudiments with it, really work on volume as well. I don't know what sort of technique you have but this was the way I built my finger speed up. Rudiments are valuable tools that, when properly used, will build your technique behind the kit and give control over the instrument. The time I put in practicing the rudiments (and Stick Control/Master Studies) has had a dramatic impact on how effectively I can apply single, double strokes, buzz rolls/press rolls around.If you have a bit of self-discipline, working out of a book on a regular basis will improve your skills and make good use of your practice time. Once you get behind the kit and start the creative process, forget all the technical applications and trust that all the practice work you have put in will allow you to accurately play what you hear in your head.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 05, 2003 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>

Quote:

---

Originally posted by beats:
What everyone above suggested, you should definitely employ.

For your hands you should check Morello's Master studies,i love that method, worked wonders, decent concise text too.

For your feet Colin Baileys Bass drum control book. As valuable as 'Master Studies'.

In fact those 2 method books should be sold as a set.

I personally rarely take breaks, not because im macho or something, but for the sheer fact that i waver with being spastically uncoordinated to being sublimely smooooth. That being said, i value muscle memorization that comes with rigourous practicing. But thats obviously a personal perspective. I do have natural breaks if im exhausted from shows and the riguers of life.


Im never with out a practice pad................

best of luck......practice like u need it to survive........love and respect.......beats

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is quite a coincidence! I just got those books, together, about 2 weeks ago. So far they're working out great for me.

"I pretty much echo Beats suggestions and whomever mentioned Lang's sentiments about working on precision rather than just trying to attein speed.
There's so much that could be mention on this particular subject but i'll stick with a logical thought: PRACTICE

The pillow method is really good to build up basic hand speed, sum "drum gurus" don't recommend it in which case a "gel pad" might a replacement. Do all your rudiments with it, really work on volume as well. I don't know what sort of technique you have but this was the way I built my finger speed up. Rudiments are valuable tools that, when properly used, will build your technique behind the kit and give control over the instrument. The time I put in practicing the rudiments (and Stick Control/Master Studies) has had a dramatic impact on how effectively I can apply single, double strokes, buzz rolls/press rolls around.If you have a bit of self-discipline, working out of a book on a regular basis will improve your skills and make good use of your practice time. Once you get behind the kit and start the creative process, forget all the technical applications and trust that all the practice work you have put in will allow you to accurately play what you hear in your head."

Apio! er . . . Noel, yes. It's Chris, Arf!, etc. Dude, you've got onto AIM more! Anyway, you know you can always count on me to practice . . . a lot. Oh yeah, on get on AIM or MSN rapidamente.

Except for the next 6 days, since I'll be on vacation [img]tongue.gif[/img] .

i'm looking into a video www.drumometer.com by art verdi practicing the right way. I would like to know how to get the most out of practice time. Sometimes we waste good time practicing in a wrong way.

I'm not sure where you can
get the Verdi video. I'd try
his site and see about it,
there, if you can't find it.

As for practicing, Mangini's
"Rhythm Knowledge" has some
great stuff in it, IMHO.

A music scholar once lectured
about how practice and playing
were radically different and
that it was MOST important to
practice as slow as possible
so as to be certain you will
succeed at your exercise.

It's the number of successes
that will determine your level
of confidence and the number
of failures that will determine
your lack of it.

I thought it was good advice
and now, I "practice" as slow
as I need to to do it RIGHT.

Their techniques and results
are radically different, besides
the speed issue and that is
crucial for someone like me.

Check them out and make your
own decision.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 06, 2003 07:07 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>

I figure guys like Mangini or Verdi have to be doing something right when they practice to play over single strokes in 60 seconds. I saw on the www.drumometer.com a dvd is about 17 dollars and a video is 14 or 15 dollars. I didn't see any preview video clip of it though.