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Hey, as a Roman Catholic and an avid Nightcrawler fanatic, I was curious to see NC in priestly garb. Thou doubtful at first, I found no slighting of the Catholic Church, bravo and kudos to the writers of Nightcrawler's new mini-series! I am extremely curious however; are any of the writers Catholic, or just people with respect for the Church of Rome?? thanks for a great site and lots of NC info.
-Kevin Reagan
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BAMF!!
-Kevin Reagan
Hi BAMFboy! I have no answer to your question, I just wanted to be the first to welcome you to the board!
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Across the Pond
Hey there BAMFboy!
So funny you mention the catholic thing and nighty!! I've been thinking the same thing too... but havent the guts t' say much. Thanks! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Okay gunna crawl back t' my little hole now. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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hello!!! i'm kurtlover, and if you check the UXM #389 you can see in a small panel some blue dude wearing the priest garments, i got shock when i saw him, it was impressive.
or you can check it here: http://briefcase.yahoo.com/arminda20mx
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"give me a kiss tall and dark bamfsome!!!"nightcrawler first mini.
"I will remember that looking up X-rated pictures of Nightcrawler does not count as a love-life." CFAN, bad writer.
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[This message has been edited by kurtlover (edited February 20, 2002).]
To Ncrawlr82: thanx for the welcome!
To Blueflame: don't be afraid to speak, man!
To kurtlover: thanx for the info!
peace all
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BAMF!!
-Kevin Reagan
Guten Tag BAMF boy!
I'm not really quite sure about the answer to your question either. Sorry.
Well, anyway, welcome aboard! And don't let anyone around here scare you off. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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===={::>>B@mf<<::}====
Thanks Bamfboy! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Whattya we cant scare him off AF? Awwww.. take away my fun. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/tongue.gif *puts away scarry mask* Oh well. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif Welcome anyway bamf boy!
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===={::??@m??::}====
Hey Bamf boy! As a former Roman Catholic myself, I was relieved to see the religion be treated with respect, but sadly I'm not sure if any of the writers are Catholic. I assume someone was there to help get the facts straight, but I'm not sure who.
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No matter where you go, no matter what you do, no matter what troubles you may encounter in life --- there are nine hundred million people in China who really couldn?t care less. So you might as well have a good time.
===={::??@m??::}====
[This message has been edited by Lasombra (edited March 05, 2002).]
Considering they totally ****ed up on the facts (except for Kipiniak), I truly doubt that was the case.
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"I still have a soul? Then where did I get this 20 bucks?" - Indie Rock Pete
hehe, you said "n00bs."
What facts? Oh, just little things like Kurt saying Midnight Mass by himself for himself, (wtf?) and the way they had him set up as a genuine, qualified priest after only 6 months of training. At least until Kipiniak came along and introduced that real priest guy to straighten the whole mess out.
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"I still have a soul? Then where did I get this 20 bucks?" - Indie Rock Pete
Heya, BAMF boy! Welcome!
I agree with Lasombra, or at least that that could be the case, since I have no clue as to who involved with the mini is Catholic or not. Then again, I'm really liking this mini, and that's all that is needed to make me happy...that and no more Physics tests.
Fasheem, you lost me there, what facts are you talking about? The 4 finger count? Don't be surprised, sometimes I find that I'm a particularly "strange cookie" from another world.
[This message has been edited by nghtcrwlr (edited February 22, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by nghtcrwlr (edited February 22, 2002).]
As I have yet to welcome BAMF boy, I think I'll do it.................
now!
Welcome BAMF Boy! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
I'm Hsu, I'm insane (as most of us are), but I don't bite or nuthin. Well.... I bite a little, but not n00bs.
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Spiderman is l33t.
But The elf is ?ber-l33t!!
As of now, i have only read the first issue of NC's mini-series, in what issue did he say a mass for himself? thanks.
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BAMF!!
-Kevin Reagan
mass for himself? i guess it was in UXM #100,by the way shemmie, adding something more to the things you say, he swear "mein gott" all the time
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"give me a kiss tall and dark bamfsome!!!"nightcrawler first mini.
"I will remember that looking up X-rated pictures of Nightcrawler does not count as a love-life." CFAN, bad writer.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fasheem:
What facts? Oh, just little things like Kurt saying Midnight Mass by himself for himself, (wtf?) and the way they had him set up as a genuine, qualified priest after only 6 months of training. At least until Kipiniak came along and introduced that real priest guy to straighten the whole mess out.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OOOOH, I get ya now. (yet, midnight mass by yourself for yourself?... *remembers all those nights right before a big 'exam' or something* Hey! what's wrong with that?! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/tongue.gif)
First off, greetings to you, Bamf Boy!
I'm not Catholic, but half my family is and I did some research on the priesthood out of my own curiousity. So I'm not coming completely out of left field with this.
The problem is, Kurt popped up after six months as a trainee priest. He presided over Moira's funeral in full priestly garb, and now his uniform contains that collar. They keep telling us he's a trainee, yet he acts like he's an ordained priest.
Reality check now. Real seminary training takes YEARS. Trainees don't have the authority to preside over the sacraments or wear the collar until after their training is complete and they have taken the final vows.
So all this flies right in the face of Catholicism.
I think it was Chris Claremont who jacked it up to start with, which is ironic since Claremont is the one who gave Nighty the religious bent so long ago. But all the writers to come since have been perpetrating the same errors.
We know now that Kurt's creator never meant him to be religious. That being said, I think Claremont did his character a favor in giving him that characteristic. It gave him insight and compassion that sometimes the other characters lacked. And it was just a good thing in that people in the real world are religious and people that read comics are religious. So Kurt's religion allows religious people to identify with him. The posts in this thread would seem to back that up.
The problem came when Claremont decided to make him a mail-order priest.
1- The process of training is overlooked and he seems to be 'practising without a license.' This, in my opinion, is a heck of a misrepresentation of the church.
2- Aside from the mini, no stories of note have ever come from the change in his character.
So, that's how I see it. It might have been a cool thing, if it had been done better. But as it is, the mini excluded, there was just no point. For the record, I don't like the priest thing, so I admit my bias. I'm happy it'll be ending soon.
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===={::??@m??::}====
~Award-winning designer of Norway's lovely crinkly edges.~
[This message has been edited by Slartibartfast (edited February 28, 2002).]
Rereading the original post, this thought occurred to me...
Bamf Boy wants to know if Kurt's writers are/were Catholic. Well, I dunno, but I'll speculate on the past. Dave Cockrum resented Chris Claremont making Kurt religious because Kurt was based on Cockrum himself. Claremont has often said in interviews that Kurt was HIS voice during times when he was unhappy about something, or wanted his view in the book. Claremont's religious, he's referenced it in various interviews. Perhaps Claremont made Kurt religious after Cockrum's departure so he could better identify the character with himself instead of Cockrum. I don't know that Claremont's Catholic, but he may be. So a disagreement, or maybe plain spite, between Kurt's two creators may be the whole reason Kurt was made religious.
Hmmm...
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===={::??@m??::}====
~Award-winning designer of Norway's lovely crinkly edges.~
WELL NOW, this post is really getting somewhere! I'd like to start off by saying how much I appriciate you eagerness to make me feel welcome, I'm hooked on this forum now! Slartibartfast, great posts, thank you for the time. Nocturne, good point you have there; however, I do not believe religion was meant to show athiesm in a negative light. I have to agree with Slartibartfast when he said that it was meant to attract more readers with religion than to exclude readers who choose a different creed (or no creed). Maybe the writers just wanted to add an aspect of their life, or something that means much to them, into their books. Who know? Maybe it was a random idea picked out of the hat, but sometime I would like to hear from the writers, I am going to send them emails/letters concerning this topic, as soon as i know something, I'll of course post it here first. Please feel free to email me at [email protected], and if a cruel soul wants to have their fun spaming, go ahead, i'll email anyone interested through my main account. Slartibartfast and Nocturne, please email, I'd like to talk on a regular basis if possivble, ok? See you all later, and thanks for posting!
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BAMF!!
-Kevin Reagan
one thing i forgot to mention... i do not believe that the writers are not trying to offend Catholics by misrepresenting the priesthood. When I said that the Catholic Church was not slighted by the writers, I did not mean that somethings were misrepresented. I mean, however, that the Church was not portrayed in a radical right-wing manner or shown in a negative light. The midnight mass incident should not have been put in, but it is not offensive to the Church (so I believe), but rather is only inaccurate. The collar being shown and the "speed-training" is another case of inaccuracy, I believe, and wouldn't downplay the Catholic Church.
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BAMF!!
-Kevin Reagan
ah sorry, i did not mean religion was meant to throw atheism in a bad light, it's just that many writers DO tend to do this by making non-religious characters immoral, and that is why i for one liked having Nighty as a non religious sort. tho i still have Colossus to point to as the ultimate athiest good guy, who made the ultimate sacrafice to save many lives http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
again i apolagise, i am a touch sensitive on the subject. i live in a very religious community, and am often looked down upon when it is found out i am an athiest. i am sure you are perfectly nice and tolerant, but i do run across some people who are of the opinion that you are automatically a bad person for not being religious.
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I feel like I've stumbled into a strange suburb of bizarro world. No offense, but I'm finding it kinda hard to understand your arguments, BAMF boy, with all those extra (?) and often contradictory "nots".
I'm from the radical group that totally hates the entire business of religion (especially that religion) invading my favorite comic. I know I'm just biased but that doesn't make me like it any better.
All this religion-talk has given my the intense desire to watch Father Ted. (Again.) Talk about misrepresenting the church... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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"I still have a soul? Then where did I get this 20 bucks?" - Indie Rock Pete, Diesel Sweeties
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fasheem:
All this religion-talk has given my the intense desire to watch Father Ted. (Again.) Talk about misrepresenting the church... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're incorrigible, Sheemie! Never change! *hug* http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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===={::??@m??::}====
~Award-winning designer of Norway's lovely crinkly edges.~
nice points Slartibartfast... yeah i am sure some people can identify with him and his religion, but there are others like myself who cannot... and i have say about making him religious giving him 'insight and compassion' that i take a little bit of offense to this. i am sure you did not mean it, but i run across this atitude a lot, and it tends to touch a nerve.
when i started reading X-Men i went straight to the source and started from the beginning, with TPB collections and the like. i did not know he was catholic going in. aside from the first few issues written by Wein, in the early days i found it wonderful that there was (as far as was known at the time)a non religious character (him and Colossus both) displaying such compassion and morality when most often characters who are athiest are often shown to be immoral, (such as wolverine, love the character, but he definately has morality issues) when that is not the case. we are individuals, some are good people some are bad. we can be just as moral as the most devout christian. being religious does not automatically make you a good person. by the same token, not being religious does not make you a bad person, does not make you lack compassion or faith (you jsut put that faith in different things than a god), does not make you lack morals.
overall tho, i just do not like it when a character is defined by their religion. having it as a partof their character, fine. i could have happily lived with him being catholic, so long as it did not overshadow the rest of his peronality. but lately he has become a character who is defined by his religion, when there is so much more to him than that. Storm fell victim to this as well, she was 'the pagan weather goddess' and not too much more. she was defined by the goddess aspect of her personality and not until she questioned her own faith in the 170's did she (in my eyes) truly grow as a character.
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[This message has been edited by Nocturne (edited February 28, 2002).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nocturne:
in the early days i found it wonderful that there was (as far as was known at the time)a non religious character (him and Colossus both) displaying such compassion and morality when most often characters who are athiest are often shown to be immoral, (such as wolverine, love the character, but he definately has morality issues) when that is not the case. we are individuals, some are good people some are bad. we can be just as moral as the most devout christian. being religious does not automatically make you a good person. by the same token, not being religious does not make you a bad person, does not make you lack compassion or faith (you jsut put that faith in different things than a god), does not make you lack morals.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are right, and I did not mean to imply that those without religious leanings are immoral or uncompassionate. I'm not religious, and, despite an apparent lack of an ability to choose non-offensive words, I think I'm a decent person. I've encountered prejudice similar to what you allude to myself, and it was not my intention add to that. Pardon my semantic blunder.
You're also right that both characters had these traits from the start. I've read those TPB's too. All I meant was that this additional aspect of his character gave those who are religious an additional point of attachment to that character. People are drawn to things like themselves and some people have said they are drawn to him specifically because he is a Christian.
My point: We all like Nightcrawler for some reason. There's some trait to that character we can identify with, or admire. Religion was a drawing point for some people, and the current situation shows ignorance or plain negligence of religious tradition on the part of the creators. Hardly a way to win over new readers, or keep old ones. It's hypocritical.
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===={::??@m??::}====
~Award-winning designer of Norway's lovely crinkly edges.~
wow...looking back on it, I really did use a lot of 'nots' ooops. I think I did in fact contradict myself Fasheem, thanx for bringing it to my attention. The first sentence of my last post should read, "I don't believe that the writers were trying to offend Catholics..."; sorry for the confusion. While I'm responding to you ,Fasheem, I must ask: why do you "totally hate religion"...especially my religion??
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BAMF!!
-Kevin Reagan
I don't totally hate it, as long as it keeps its distance. I've had religion crammed down my throat since I was born and I was forced to get Confirmed. I have to go to church every week when I don't believe it is the right thing and so the last thing I want is to read a preachy comic. Especially when it is my favorite character doing all the preaching.
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"I still have a soul? Then where did I get this 20 bucks?" - Indie Rock Pete, Diesel Sweeties
Ick, religion talk. I probably should stay away, as my short temper makes me a bit touchy, but I'll wade in. Fasheem, I know how you feel. I was forced to Confirm, but later chose to change my religion. Now I'm Lokean and happy. But I admit the touch of religion was what first drew me to Kurt. The way I saw it was not a burn on atheists, but simply an attempt to add a bit of diversity, so to speak.
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No matter where you go, no matter what you do, no matter what troubles you may encounter in life --- there are nine hundred million people in China who really couldn?t care less. So you might as well have a good time.
===={::??@m??::}====
First of all i'd like to bid a big Greetings and Salutations to BAMF BOY!
Wow, some pretty heavy conversation going on in this thread!
Personally I dont like it when the creators focus too much on any one aspect of Kurt's personality, be it his happy-go-lucky side, his flirtatious side, his religious side, etc.
One of the things that i've always liked about the character is his compassion and I believe that a lot of that stems from his faith. Regardless of where any of us might stand on the religious issues, i'm pretty sure we all agree that trying to turn him into a full fledged Priest took waaaay too much away from so many of the other great aspects of Kurt's character.
With the news of him ending his training, and a new X-writer coming aboard i've got a good feeling that we'll being seeing some long-missed sides of Nightcrawler's personality pretty soon!
BAMF!
What is Lokean?
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"I still have a soul? Then where did I get this 20 bucks?" - Indie Rock Pete, Diesel Sweeties
A Lokean is a person who chooses to follow the god, Loki from Norse mythology.
Have you ever had the experience, when a lot of stupid little stuff is happening to you, you get more and more upset, and then you suddenly reach this point where you draw back and say, "How silly I am, and how silly life is, and why am I getting so upset about this? This is really pretty damned funny, when you think about it!" You really laugh at yourself and the absurdity of the world. And just at that point, the annoying stuff just STOPS, like magic. It's like someone was waiting for you to catch on, and now that you've come to your senses, the lesson stops. That's basically what I have come to embrace. To put it another way: "Someday you'll look back on this and laugh."
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No matter where you go, no matter what you do, no matter what troubles you may encounter in life --- there are nine hundred million people in China who really couldn?t care less. So you might as well have a good time.
===={::??@m??::}====