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Okay you've been warned, serious spoiler warning, if you don't want to learn about major plot developments in upcoming issues of X-Men do NOT read on.....
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.....Okay you may have already heard this over on the WW board but rumours are abound that in the next few months we will see the death of former Excalibur team mate Collosus!
Shit! was my first response but then I started thinking how this is going to effect the rest of the team and in particular; Kurt Wagner. How is he going to deal with this? Will he find solice in his religion? Or will this be the straw that breaks the elfs back?
So what do you think guys?
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Keep It Safe In The
Kitchen!
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To be honest, I doubt they'll show any reaction at all. That's been one of my main beef with the books lately, no characterisation or interaction, unless its Rogue and Wolverine, or Rogue and Psylok, or Rogue and Thunderturd...But then again, I probably should shut my mouth since I havent been reading the books. That leads me to a little confession. I broke down today and had a relapse. I went to my comics shop today in order to get Ultimate X-men, but they hadn't gotten it from the suppliers yet. So I bought uncanny 389 and x-men 109. I know that I have sacrificed my integrity. I'm so ashamed http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
Yippeee more Rogue...
Sorry for the Rogue bashing, Mit. I'll stop now.
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It's all you need in superheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
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I'm sad. I like Colossus, somewhat. I hope he's given a proper story (is that like a proper burial, only for a character?)
Interesting that Kitty's scheduled to come back in XM #110, just in time to hear the news.
My feelings on this? Someone on the Wizard board said that 2 more X-Men are buying it soon, and that their deaths are even MORE shocking. I'm ... worried. If they can kill Colossus ...
-Rex
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...They could kill Kurt, right? They'd better not...unless they want some ticked off fans.
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I think its a possibility. I've noticed that Colossus is in the Ultimate title, and he's getting kiiled off in the main titles. If the Ultimate writer is convinced to include NC in ultimate, I wonder if that opens the way for the regular continuity Kurt to get the axe. I don't dislike colosuss, but I've never been very interested in him, and he's seems to have run out of story potential these past few years. I kinda see Kurt going down that road too.
Let me amend to that: I actually think the elf has tons of story potential, but Marveljust won't explore it. Every issue has to focus on the money-making characters. Maybe in Ultimate, NC would get some attention if they aren't so hell-bent on sales.
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It's all you need in superheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
[This message has been edited by Spatula Gal (edited January 13, 2001).]
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Yeah I heard about Colossus and am a little bummed.He wasnt a favorite of mine but I grew up on him.Ill miss him.If they want to kill a character they should kill Thunderbird III.Not one of the classics. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
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`~`~`Dragonlady`~`~`
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i was actually just thinking to myslef this morning in the shower is that what some of the comics that i read need is a good ol death. something real, to shake things up. now, lets not get all crazy and say that im rooting for colossus to die, cuz hes one of my faves. but i think that it makes sense, in the tragic family sense. hes already lost illyana, and mikhail is so crazy... i dunno, it just kinda makes sense to me.
please dont hate me. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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I just want to add that I agree with Spatula.They probably wont show any emotion from Kurt or any of the X-Men.No one seems to care when anyone dies anymore.They sure got over Moira awful fast.
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`~`~`Dragonlady`~`~`
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Dont worry Oz how can we hate you? http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
Besides everyones entitled to theyre opinion.And I suppose an established characters death would have more meaning than a cheesy second rate X-Man like Thunderbird III.
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`~`~`Dragonlady`~`~`
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And now introucing the WOLVERINE and ROGUE show! Starring WOLVERINE and ROGUE! And this months episode co-stars some other folks. But they don't make as much money as WOLVERINE and ROGUE so lets not talk about them and get on with the WOLVERINE and ROGUE show!!!!
I hear ya Spatch loud and clear, the X-men has become a bit of a two horse race. But with Rogue heading off with Claremont hopefully that will give some room for the other characters to have a run out. Plus in a recent press conference Kelly and Morrison said there would be no cross over between the books, but didn't CC say this too?
I too was thinking last night about the whole Collosus thing (not in the shower I hasten to add, I have better things to think about. No not that you dirty feckers, cleaning myself of course!). Nd I think everyone who has posted here is right. the only reason Collosus is being bumped off is becuase he is the only Ultimate X-Man who isn't one of the big earners.
I also think it is a bad time to kill a character off when a new creative team is jumping on. They will (or should) be full of fresh ideas and they won't want to be bothered with finishing the last persons story off. Thus we don't get to see the mourning for Collosus that he deserves. Same thing with happened with Cyclops and the six month gap! (Although Davis did have a couple of issues left to deal with the grief but what do they do instead, play baseball!)
As for Nightcrawlers influence on the X-Men, that still seems a little cloudy. I am sure one of the writers will see his potential but I still get the feelling us fans will have to get used to him playing the straight man for a while longer. Plus rumours are abound that LOTS of mutants die in the first few issues of Morrison's run, so keep all three fingers crossed that our bamf isn't one of them!
The Mit
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Ugh! No Wolvie and Rogue show! The team won't care if Piotr dies, nobody gives a flying fig about anyone else anymore. Nobody on the team will even notice he's gone...they'll just go party in New Orleans again. Kurt will go pray.
Colossus was never one of my favorites so I don't think that would bother me too much. Except that he is one of the new X-Men and so is Elf. I really hope Kurt doesn't bite it...unless he can live on in a better form in Ultimate and Evolution.
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I am still upset even though I haven't read the comic. Collosus was one of my favorite X-men. He might have even been in the top three when you get right down to it.
I know he's not gone ,but He will be gone for at least a year. I don't think you have too worry about Nightcrawler being one of the casualties though. My guess on the other mutant's they'd kill off would be Cyclops, yes again just because he has been there so long so much has been said ,and done with this charecter. I mean wouldn't it be shocking for him to be the one too die, since it would be again. Even though the Search for Cyke isn't over with I think that's how it will go down. I'm also looking for Archangel to bite the bullet. I don't think CC broke up Psylocke just for the express purpose of making him look like a dork by losing his girlfriend to a lousy 5th rate charecter with overused powers ,and name. I think He's gonna edge him off also.
That's just my opinion.
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I'm fairly certain that Morrison wants to use Scott heavily in his title. Also, Angel is getting a limited series, and that would be odd if he were dead. Wizard didn't leave his mini off the list > http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif Someone mentioned that Rogue's stressing out about something happening to Gambit could be a bit of nasty foreshadowing for the Cajun, and Morrison has expressed his dislike for Gambit, but he's too popular a character for Marvel to let go of.
-Rex
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ovenmitboy:
And now introucing the WOLVERINE and ROGUE show! Starring WOLVERINE and ROGUE! And this months episode co-stars some other folks. But they don't make as much money as WOLVERINE and ROGUE so lets not talk about them and get on with the WOLVERINE and ROGUE show!!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*shudders*
You're gonna give me nightmares about that Mit...
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Methinks these be some very grim and troubled times for our merry band of Mutants...
I also heard about the news over at the WW thread (There's also one in fandom) and posted in 'em exclaiming my EXTREME displeasure.
'MIT youre last post sums up a lot of my feelings on the matter.
Instead of killing off the traditionally underused and underappreciated X-characters, why not take the time and effort to find new and exciting ways of interpreting them?
Piotr was actually one of my favorite x-characters.
As much as I've been screaming all of my comic-reading existence about Kurt continually getting shortchanged in the X-universe, poor Colossus has had it even worse.
Suffice to say I am extremely saddened by his impending death and wish that Marvel, Quesada and the x-offices would have found a better and more creative way to get the fans talking than the TIRED 'Death of a major character' angle...
Dosvidanya Comrade...
http://www.geocities.com/bamftronic/..._shielding.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
BAMF!
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BAMF!:
Instead of killing off the traditionally underused and underappreciated X-characters, why not take the time and effort to find new and exciting ways of interpreting them?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have a hunch that's what their doing with the Ultimate titles. They might be killing off some characters in the main titles, and then reinterpreting them in the Ultimate title. I am basing this hunch mainly on what they have done with Colossus. He has a different background in Ultimate, more modernised I think, but he's still essentially the same character. I'm thinking Nightcrawler can be reinterpreted in the same way. His background has bacome rather dated, and also people are confused about whether he was raised by gypsies in a circus or lived in a monostary. Both scenarios are so last century. Its not very belivable for a guy perpetually in his early- to mid-twenties. So I wouldn't be surprised if NC gets killed off, but shows up in Ultimate, pretty much the same character but with a more contempory backstory. I actually won't be very upset if they do this.
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It's all you need in souperheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
[This message has been edited by Spatula Gal (edited January 16, 2001).]
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Death of major characters (in comics) don't matter any more. Back when Gwen Stacey and the original Phoenix died, death was real. Now..."It wasn't really Wolverine who died at all, it was a skrull!" (Like they'd ever kill off a popular character like that) Secondary character deaths don't matter, it's just "Oh they aren't popular anyway, no one'll notice, we can't think up anything new about them, if fans get angry, we'll say it was a clone or something." That's what really grinds me up.
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Ditto X-GIRL85!
Aww SPATS, I understand how upset you are over reg. continuity Kurt's training for the Priesthood, but i'm sorry to hear that! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
I want the old Kurt back too, but Ultimate Nightcrawler or no, I cant bring myself to wishing our 20+ yrs in regular Marvel continuity fuzzy elf dead http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif I CAN relate though, to feeling betrayed and disenchanted because of not liking a direction a beloved character is currently taking.
I remember for YEARS I couldnt STAND the fact that Peter Parker got married! Before the miracle of puberty I was pretty much your average, bookwormish, comic geek. I think that was a large part of the reason why I identified so much with the perpetually down-on-his-luck-always-the-underdog Peter Parker. As I grew up this was the Spider-Man that i'd become attatched to.
Once he got married I just couldnt relate to Spidey anymore. Now i've always liked Mary Jane, but something about Pete having this Drop-dead gorgeous, Supermodel wife just made Spidey lose a lot of his 'everyman' appeal to me.
Although I kept on collecting, for 10+ yrs I kept wanting for Marvel to bring back the 'Real' Peter Parker!
(Now this is going to sound SSOOOO corny SPATULA!) Ya wanna know what was a BIG reason that I kept on following Spidey's adventures, even though I didnt recognize him as the character i'd grown up following anymore?
I KNEW PETE WAS HAPPY. (What with Spider-Man being a fictional character, whose fate is decided by a bunch of editors and writers I know how silly that sounds!)
I actually took solace in the fact that even though the character had grown in a direction that I didnt really agree with, at least I knew the character was happy. ( Plus there was always the chance that Pete would come full circle back to the Spidey i'd known and loved! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif )
It's kinda the same for me with Kurt now. Right now he's not the Happy-go-lucky , charming little flirt I grew up reading about, but Kurts' doing something that really and TRULY makes him happy. Kurt's faith has almost always been an integral part of his character.
Like a lot of us I dont agree with CC taking him so deeply into that facet of his personality during his run. But it's a journey i'll take with Kurt knowing that #1: it IS an established aspect of the characters' personality that hasnt really been tapped before, and #2: I FULLY expect for Kurt to come full-circle back to the fun-loving, mischievious little Elf that we all know and love! (ie: Kurt leaves the Priesthood behind, without sacrificing the fact that he continues to find strength and happiness in his love for God!)
Hang in there SPATS, our Elf will be back before ya know it! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
BAMF!
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Oh mah GAWD. 10+ years?! I only lasted 1 month after Claremont started writing Kurt as a priest. And most of it is because I just can't relate at all to him being happy as a priest. Being an athiest, I find it very difficult to believe that anyone could be happy in a life of God. So, I basically see him as delusional, which contrasts with my view of him as basically intelligent.
Kahlana
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Unglaublich!! 10+ years?! I only came back 1 month after Claremont started writing Kurt as a priest. And most of it is because I just can't relate at all to him being happy as a priest. Being an young man, I find it very difficult to believe that anyone could be happy in a life of God. So, I basically see him as depressed, which contrasts with my view of him as basically happy.
I guess I just have waaaay too many hormones to relate. I still think something happened that we didn't see that really shook him to his core. I realize that he was always very religious, but most people who are don't go into the priesthood...and besides that, as others have mentioned before, there are strict rules to becoming a priest. Like you have to be a virgin, etc, that Kurt just doesn't fit into. Besides that fact that he is very very clearly a mutant, and with the ramant predjudice that is supposed to be present in the MU, he wouldn't get accepted to the priest school because he's a mutant. And who's he kidding? If he actually got accepeted and passed and everything (very very very unlikely) and he became a priest, does he really think that people will go to listen? Normal people almost surely wouldn't, and if he's preaching to only Catholic Mutants, then he's going to have a grand total of about 5 people to preach to...okay, and that's all my opinion on being a priest...but he also has lost sight of himself in chasing the priesthood...he's not the same person...or at least is trying not to be, since there ARE flashes of his old self that surface every so often. I hope that he realizes that he's denying himself who he is by evoting himself to God.
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~~I'll be standing in the rain with my pants on fire when it all goes wrong again~~
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All true... except, you don't have to be a virgin. I don't know if the vow of chastity is taken at the beginning or the end of training, I'm guessing the beginning, but virginity doesn't matter.
Although, I guess it would be easier if ya didn't know what you were missing.
Kahlana
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I agree with you 100% Knighty.I definately think something major must have happened for Kurt to become a priest.Im thinking maybe something to do with his family?.When/if they decide to chuck the whole priest thing I hope they show us what made him decide to go that road in the first place.Kahlana is right,you dont have to be a virgin to become a priest,you just cant have sex afterwards.
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Sorry, BAMF! but what I'm feeling is not something that I can get used to. I think the priest thing is grossly out of character. There's a world of difference between being religious and choosing to become a priest. And as KC has said, it just isn't plausible for NC to get accepted in semenary. I don't even see that preist-wanabee as the same character, and since he's so flat, its hard to care whether he's "happy" or not. If and when he gives up the student priest act, his integrity will be diminished. It would be a failure, and the character would be weakened. I think what is more likely is that they'll keep him a "student-priest" indefinately, and all of his light-hearted, swashbuckling traits will be forgotten. That's why I would rather that they just kill him, and start fresh in some alternate universe. I know that sounds really harsh, but I did my mourning several months back when I realized how completely fucked up NC was. There's just no plausible way to fix him.
I'm really angry at claremont. At first I thought he had something really interesting in store for the elf, but since he has not followed up on that in the 9 or 10 months he's been writing, I now see that it was all for the shock value. I really had an "Emperor has no clothes" experience last year concerning claremont. It dawned on me that he is a rotten writer. The greatness of that legendary first run must have been due to the editors and artists. I have learned that many of the major plot turns in the Pheonix Saga were either Jim Shooter's or John Byrne's doing. I can't believe anymore that claremont had much to do with it, but he got all the credit and it went to his head. I remember last summer reading an interview. He was asked if he reads the boards and newsgroups, and he said something like, "Oh who has the time?" He's just full of himself and doesn't give a damn about the fans. I don't think the replacing writers do either. Morrison basks in the glow of fan idolation too much for my tastes. I'm never going to trust a writer like that again. I'm banking on Millar's Ultimate NC because Millar listens to readers, and the Evo Kurt, cuz he's too young and precocious to even think about religion.
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It's all you need in souperheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
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<font size=+3>DAMN STRAIGHT, SPATCH!!</font>
And as for Evo-NC being too young and precocious to even think about religion, I think that that may not be completely true, but I DO think that they've captured the TRUE essence of his character over there...A demon-looking freak with a heart of Fool's Gold.
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~~I'll be standing in the rain with my pants on fire when it all goes wrong again~~
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Millar seems like a terrific guy. AND he's a good writer. I just read Ultimate X-Men #2 yesterday -- my God, but it was nice to actually ENJOY an X-book for a change. The dialogue was funny and engaging instead of just getting us from point A to point B or making some inflated point about "the world that hates and fears us blah blah blah"; the characters had individual personalities that weren't based on stereotypes like "the charming devil-may-care thief" or "the hard-boiled soldier". LET'S HEAR IT FOR GOOD WRITING!
Morrison does have a big head, but he's also a pretty good writer. I have a feeling that I may not like where he takes the X-Men, but that it will be competently executed and interesting if nothing else. His rock star status may give him a bit of freedom from editorial interference. Also, he's interested in questions of reality and the imagination and things of that nature, and I think the X-Men could use a bit of a change from the social allegory angle to something a little more metaphysical. He does know what he's doing, unlike Claremont, who has probably the single worst prose style in comics. Scott Lobdell's captions actually sounded MUSICAL to me in #390 after that steady diet of Claremont, and that's just sad.
Casey I don't know much about. The few things by him I've read were good, and he doesn't have that rock star thing going that Morrison has -- at least I don't think he does.
Whether or not we like what the X-Men become, I think they will at least stop being MEDIOCRE with Morrison and Casey on board. It won't be a drag, like (IMHO) it's been for the last several years. As for now, I'm very happy with Ultimate X-Men, and I'm starting to lean toward Spat's position: if NC gets into the Ultimate title, which he very may well, I'll be happy, and bugger the regular continuity http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
-Rex
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Some brilliant points, and counter-points being made everyone! It all boils down to one thing...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rex Luscus:
LET'S HEAR IT FOR GOOD WRITING!
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I feel like that is the main thing that's going to bring readers back to the X-universe in general and the Marvel Universe Nightcrawler in particular. Here's hoping Casey and Morrison will deliver... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
BAMF!
