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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Spatula Gal said:
I think putting Kurt on ice indicates that someone at marvel is trying to find a way to fix him, or looking for a writer with some ideas for him. They are working something out for the character. I think we should tell marvel to lose the priest crap on Nighty and never let cc write him again. I don't think they pay much attention to internet message boards, unless its fandom. So let's all send an email, or a letter, expressing our demands. We need to get more proactive, or cc will be writing the damned NC LS !!
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Spatch may be on to something there in the "7 Fav X-Men" thread. Proactivism saved Cable from cancellation. They will listen if there are enough voices. Constructive letters are taken much more seriously than emails. We could do something similar to what Knighty did on the Ultimate X-Men/Mark Miller thing. We could all have input on a letter then condense it. Not attacking Marvel, but just suggesting we don't want to see him forgotten and retconned into stupidity. It needs to be proofread to within an inch of it's life and signed, not literally, by everyone on the board willing. With our real names. No one is gonna take 'Slartibartfast' seriously. If somebody had a problem using their real name, and if this letter is just to Editorial with no intention of trying to get it into one of the X-books, then just I could know the real names. Or KC and I.
I'd be willing to work on it. Several of us would be good proofreaders. We could start a thread and use it only for input for the letter. Let it stay up for a couple weeks and then start condensing until we got something everyone participating was happy with.
Think we can do it? I do. Think we will? It's up to you all.
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by Slartibartfast (edited February 02, 2001).]
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Super bon! Oui, I agree zhat e-mails just aren't taken zhat seriously zhese days. Heck, maybe zhey never will. But since I zhink you are all cool and trustworthy I'll go along with you. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
As zhe old cliche goes, where do I sign?
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Don't mess with me, I'm French!
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Sounds like a great idea. I am all ears. Anything to keep our man in action.
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Always watching from the shadows...
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I'd love to help. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif Its so frustrating to really be getting into this recently only to find out it could all end so soon...
And I'd be happy to lend my assistance as a proofreader, if you need someone.
Jyuu-chan
(Tired... so tired... but new Evo tomorrow... *sighs* So only 5 hours of sleep... joy...)
[This message has been edited by Jyuu-chan (edited February 03, 2001).]
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A group letter is a good idea Slarti. If I was just sending in my own letter I'd probably be ranting and raving and totally negative. Couple of months back I sent a letter, and it took me a long time to tone it down. I don't think it went over very well. I must have just sounded nutz. They probably file-13ed it. Anyway let me know how I can help.
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It's all you need in souperheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
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Yay! Ze Biscuit has climbed aboard the Save Nighty bandwagon! Who's next?
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I'll help too. Or try too... Did anyone see the 1st 10 minuts of Evo today? I missed them, tell me what happened please.
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I have a degree in English, so I'll be more than happy to lend my editorial skills...and my signature. Hand me the pen!!
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This is something I spent about an hour of my life on and posted on the Whizzer board, where it made no impression at all. So I figured I'll try to make thebest of it and offer it as material for the letter.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This is why I find priest-kurt unbelievable. This is supposed to be a world where mutants are feared and hated. I find it a stretch to believe that an organized religious body would allow a mutant, especially a notorious terrorist (which is how the x-men are perceived by the public) with such a bizarre appearance, to enroll and attend seminary. True, Kurt could use his image inducer to hide his real identity, but that kind of subterfuge would seem to conflict with the self-expectations of an aspiring priest as I see it. Assuming he does somehow get into seminary, it would take years of study for him to become a priest, and to get his own church. Kurt seems to have a church in only six months! And there are no parishioners. No seminary, no books, no teachers except for a vague mention of them. The only logical conclusion is that he had just snuck into an abandoned church and started playing priest. And on top of that, he's still running around in spandex, kicking people upside their heads!
As for why I really detest priest-kurt: he's boring. That is unforgivable in a comic book character. His personality is one-dimensional. All he does is talk about God this and God that. Go back 5 or 10 years. NC had a lot more range, which included his religious beliefs but wasn't limited to that. Now, I like NC's religiousness, but it was just stupid to make him a priest because of that. claremont could have made a priest character from scratch, and he may (or may not, cc seems to have become a hopeless hack) have been a cool character. But no, he took a round character like NC and shoved him into a square hole. Stripped everything away except for the religiousness, and made it overbearing. A Catholic priest lives in my neighborhood. "Priesting" is his job, and when he's done, he comes home and acts like a regular guy. He doesn't go around being a one-note fanatic like NC has been.
Now they could take him two ways from here...he could quit the x-men and get serious about his studies, which means no more Nighty in the comics cuz whose going to buy that?...or he could quit the priest thing altogether, which will just make him look even stupider than he looks now. cc really ****ed up a cool character.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It does sounds pretty negative, I wouldn't mind if someone edited a more positive spin out of it.
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It's all you need in souperheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
[This message has been edited by Spatula Gal (edited February 03, 2001).]
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More positive? You couldn't make it more positive without making it less effective. Don't try to sugar coat it; they totally screwed up and if they don't know it already, someone should tell them. You didn't come off as crazy and you gave a lot of evidence to support your points. Keep it the way it is.
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They can't take NC away just when I'm discovering him. Nooooooo.
If you need my limited powers and intellect, I'll be lurking around.
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Fine Arts Flunky
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WoW, some wonderful debate going on in here!
SPATULA, MIT ..great posts. You covered both ends of the pro/anti Claremont argument beautifully.
Although I never warmed up to Kurt being a Priest-in-training, and a lot of the paths the other characters took, (I love Gambit, but find it hard to believe that with Cable, Beast and Phoenix around he'd be the choice for leader) I agree with 'MIT in that CC was trying to legitimately show that the characters had indeed grown. I havent been impressed with Chris for a while, but the recent Contest of Champions II shows that he does have some 'chops' left.
I would like to see a fresh take on Kurt though. CC had his shot, now let's see what someone else comes up with!
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Oh, and MOST DEFINITELY count me in for anything pro-active that you have planned in regards to Nightcrawler!!!
Just lemme know what you want me to do and i'm there! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif!
BAMF!
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I'm not proposing a bitch-fest letter, I think mainly my point is to send Marvel a heads-up that a fan base for Nightcrawler exists, one that doesn't want to see him forgotten.
I agree Mit, I think people, including myself at times, were too harsh on Claremont. But good storytelling isn't just *poof* six months gone and they've all evolved without any explanation as to the events that changed them. Character development is great, and maybe had CC been given more time he would have gone back and explained some of these changes. However, he is gone. A whole new creative team is coming, one that may or may not know that people even care about Nighty.
Marvel wants feedback, as do all companies- especially in the entertainment industry. Otherwise they wouldn't run letters or have public adresses and email.
Comic fans are some of the pissiest, most reactionary people I've ever seen. I just want to show the PTB at Marvel that we're not all raving, unreasoning loonies.
I'm happy so many people have expressed at least interest in this letter idea. What a dedicated group of elficionados we are!
Spatch, I think your letter is great. It doesn't pull any punches. That type of well thought-out honesty is needed to make an impression on a group of jaded editors that get bitched at by fans every day.
On a lighter note:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shadywhisk:
I have a degree in English...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yay! A fellow lady of letters! My degree is in English but I'm a journalist, so I tend to write everything in Associated Press style, which isn't great for letters.
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Nicely put Slarti, I like the sound of letting Marvel know that we are out here and a fan base is there for the mighty blue swash buckler. And what I like most about the idea is that it is a collective letter, not just one irate fan sounding off. Already we have raised some interesting points and I think a letter from such a creative bunch as us elficionados could be a really classy piece of work. Just as long as the tone is right. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
BTW I have a degree in Drama that could be useful for... for... well nothing really! I could but on some tights and do the dance of fuzzy elf if you think that would help?
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Keep It Safe In The
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That's sounds like a great idea mitzy. Let me just get my lawn chair and a cold beer---oh damn I forgot--its winter---
Anyway, I can see what you are saying mit. I'm still mad as hell at cc, but I guess he couldn't help most of the crappiness of his recent run. There was constant editorial interference, worse than usual for the x-books, what with trying to make them look like the movie. And maybe I just don't like his writing-style and ideas anymore. It's become dated. A lot of my frustration shows in what I've written, and I'm ok'ing for the most inflammetory parts to be edited out if it's used in the letter. I just want to express my dislike of what's been done to NC. And if there's going to be an LS, I think we should give our input before they start writing it, so we won't be disappointed later..
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It's all you need in souperheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
[This message has been edited by Spatula Gal (edited February 04, 2001).]
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So when Chris took over last year he introduced a six month gap. A time in which each of the X-Men had time to change, adapt and feel more at home with in the 21st century.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't know if I'm going to get hell for this one, but when I think of 21st century, the first thing that comes to mind is definitely not the ancient and dying Roman Catholic religion.
Fasheem
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Just a few words on that one Fasheem, you can arrange them into a sentence for yourself:
'Not' "touching' 'that' 'with' 'Barge-pole' and 'a'
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/tongue.gif
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Keep It Safe In The
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Hmmm, let's see.... Not...touching that.. with a ...Barge-pole? What is this "Barge-pole"?
But I know what you mean. Discussing religion is a sure way to piss people off. I know that the mere mention of "God's love" sends me right through the roof because I don't believe in it but my parents force it on me. I know that Claremont's constant reminders of the whole mess are not personal and are not a valid reason to hate him but still http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/mad.gif. That it's a completely unsuitable path for NC is nearly irrelevant for me. So I'll just shut up now.
Fasheem
[This message has been edited by Fasheem (edited February 04, 2001).]
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ovenmitboy:
BTW I have a degree in Drama that could be useful for... for... well nothing really! I could put on some tights and do the dance of fuzzy elf if you think that would help?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL! 'MIT youre a maniac dude!
BAMF!
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Hmmmn.. now how would the 'Dance of Fuzzy Elf' go...
http://www.geocities.com/bamftronic/...htcrawler2.jpg
(lol!)
BAMF!
[This message has been edited by BAMF! (edited February 04, 2001).]
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I'm eagerly awaiting that dance of the fuzzy elf!! (That pic is great, BAMF!)
Slar, I basically majored in Literature (as opposed to writing or grammar), but I LOVE to write! I'm not real big on the journalistic style of writing. I'm more into creative (mainly fiction) writing. Less constrictions! I have a lot of fan fic ideas, some including our favorite elf. If I ever put pen to paper (and get up the courage), maybe I'll preview some of it here. I know that even if you all don't particularly like it, at least I won't get flamed! At any rate, between you and I, the letter will have all the commas in the right place (at the very least)!! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
Fasheem, sorry to hear about religion being pushed on you. I am a devout Christian (Protestant in denomination), and it always saddens me to hear about people being turned off from Christianity. Even though I've always been a believer, it took some serious times for me to come into my own. I've got a big prayer list (I'm right there at the top), and I'll add you to it! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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Ah, the 'Dance of the Sugar-Plum Elfies...'
Yup, religion and politics, the great killers of conversation. I'm rather with Fasheem on the topic but the Catholic half of my family wouldn't appreciate it.
All commas and hyphens accounted for, Whisk!
Oh, well...So, we have a bunch of supporters. I think the best way to get the ball rolling is to come up with the answer to the basic question of 'What has Marvel done well lately with the elf? What have they done not-so-well? (We won't say bad, it's all in the reader's perception anyhoo, that's too negative.) What would we like to see done in the future?'
Matter of fact, I'll start a new thread for this. Once we get what we want to say hammered out, we can move to the editorial and refining process. And Mit, you're very right. The tone has to be just right. We want to come off as impassioned, but reasonable and intelligent.
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Thanx Fasheem. I wrote that in answer to someone's query on why I thought the priest business was so dumb. If that gets used in a letter, I'd like to balance it with some constructive ideas of how we'd like NC to be handle in the future.
Anyway, I was fishing around on x-fan and found this post by someone who calls themself 390
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Here's the adress; [email protected]
Go to it my friend let him know how you feel. I did!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think I will write something short and send it to him.
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It's all you need in souperheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
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Let me play the Devil's advocate here Spatch. I'm not saying I agree with what I am about to say, but hopefully it will help you to understand what CC was doing when he took over the X-Men:
The truth is, it's very hard to please a comic fan. Just like when a sports coach plays a player who loses a match, or the goverment put up taxes to fix the roads, there will always be people who will see the negative in things. For years comic book fans said they were tired of the same old faces in the X-Men rehashing old plots with little or no character development. People branding the X-Men as a team of Wolverine clones with no individual characteristics of their own. They demanded change.
So when Chris took over last year he introduced a six month gap. A time in which each of the X-Men had time to change, adapt and feel more at home with in the 21st century. Essentialy to establish themselves as people not just archeytypal heros.
In Rogues case she found leadership qualities within herself, Cable discovered the importance of family and working in a team and Nightcrawler, well he found faith. The legistics of this, as you point out, are quite suspect, but what Chris was trying to do was to make a team within which every character is unique in their thinking and background, thus creating a dynamic never before seen on an X-men roster.
A lot of people found Chris' action misjudged and ill timed but all he was trying to do was tell stories. And to do that you must have development, and dwelling on past lived memories is exactly what comic fans were complaining about . This is why Nightcrawler had to change. It is unfortunate that you do not agree with this path but like the taxes things cannot stay the same forever. And now with the recent deaths of two of his best loved friends won't it be interesting to see how Kurt reacts? Will his faith be enough?
Okay, now that was really hard to write, as I don't like the new NC either, but I think you can see what I'm getting at. Comic fans are allways asking for change, and when they get it, they want it back like it was! How does a writer deal with this? I feel real sorry CC as everybody is calling him a hack and washed up, but I honestly don't agree. He did what the comic fans wanted (ie. character development) and got slammed for it! How can you win?
As for the letter, count me in but I think we should wait. With Morrison and Casey taking over soon nobody knows how the X-Men are going to look and feel. I think we should give them the chance that Claremont wasn't given, let them tell their stories, if we are still not satisfied then its time for action.
The Mit
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The tone has to be just right. We want to come off as impassioned, but reasonable and intelligent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jute alors, zhis will be hard!
Umm.. what about someting like zhis:
Good day sir, no doubt you have a very busy schedule so we will try to be brief.
We represent a group of concerned fans, particularly of the character Kurt Wagner a.k.a Nightcrawler. Rumors have led us to believe that said character would either be killed off, or left forever to hover in comic book limbo. We believe this would be a waste of a perfectly good character, and therefore would like to help keep it from happening.
Someting like zhat?
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Don't mess with me, I'm French!
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Okay here's somthing I thought you all might like. This could be bogus or way out of date, but if you do feel that strongly (what do you mean stop looking at you Spatch?) you may want to try it. Okay I'll stop jibbering, here it is Joe Queseda's e-mail address:
[email protected]
And to keep up the quest to get Nighty in Ultimate, why not give Mark Millar a mail on:
[email protected]
Good to see he's still got a good old British address. Good lad.
Well I hope they work for you guys, and remember don't be pesky!
Mit
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Danke, SHADY! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
MIT that's awesome! I actually sent an EM to Morisson after SLARTI and REX left the link to his site...I think I may have another 2 cents that i'd like to give to the esteemed Mr. Joe Q.
(Also need to finish answering the questions in the other letter thread!)
Oh and FRENCHIE that, or something along those lines sounds cool to me!
BAMF!
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You go, Mr. Elf-rights activist X-trordinaire!
I would say that's my new name for you, but that's a bitch to type and I'm lazy.
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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~Award-winning designer of Norway's lovely crinkly edges.~
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LOL! I can always count on either you or the MIT-miester to crack me up SLARTI! Thanks for giving me a good bedtime .. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif!
BAMF!
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ovenmitboy:
Okay here's somthing I thought you all might like. This could be bogus or way out of date, but if you do feel that strongly (what do you mean stop looking at you Spatch?) you may want to try it. Okay I'll stop jibbering, here it is Joe Queseda's e-mail address:
[email protected]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
?????????????
*little rant coming up*
I posted Joes addy the other day and nobody noticed! Actually I posted this: [email protected]
First I posted a site where everyone can get a Nightkiddo, then a few days later, everyone's moaning about how there's no Kiddos anywhere, then I pored my soul into that post about the unbelievability of NC being a priest, where it's been completly invisible at wheezer, and then this...
Are my posts hard to read or something. Am I typing in a foriegn language without realizing it?? WHAT'S GOING ON???
*huge echo and crickets chirping*
*okay little rant over*
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It's all you need in souperheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
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Sorry, Spatch. I'm sure no one is ignoring your posts. I thought your letter was great and it will be included on that group letter thingie. I always enjoy your opinions, cuz usually I agree with you 100 percent! I think almost everybody trying to be serious gets ignored at Whizzer World. Most posts there seem to me to be pointless bickering, flawed speculation and "who can kick who's ass" scenarios.
I hope you still love us...*sniff*
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Oh don't worry Slati, I'm not mad at you all. I spout off once in a while when I get frustrated, but I get over it pretty quickly. I know noone was deliberately ignoring me. If I ticked anyone off with my little rant, sorry. Anyway, I am very anxious to see that letter finished up and sent. Are you working on it Slarti? Need any help?
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It's all you need in souperheroes and haute cuisine:
Culinary_X
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*sniff* Oh Spat, I'm soooooorrrrrrrrryyyyyy!! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif *sniffle*
I don't remember seeing the Nightkiddo site but I probably saw the link, thought, "Oh sure. Like I can order anything off the Internet without a credit card. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif And the exchange rate is so high. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif I still have to wait." http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
Fasheem
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Hey, Spatch, I'm waiting for a few more responses before I start to compile everything. I'm gonna kick it back up the the top right after I post this.
Danke, I'll probably need help from a bunch of ya's when we get writing.
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
