My Jackson Racing Experience ! (Type R)

I have an '01 Type R and have the Jackson Racing Supercharger and their BTC box on the car. Currently with no other modifications the car runs flawlessly and is getting over 200hp at the wheels. I also have had the pleasure of meeting the entire crew at Jackson Racing, including Oscar Jackson, and I am speaking from experience when I say that they are extremely courteous and informative. My car base lined at 166hp at the wheels on the Jackson Racing dyno in its original form and that's typical for these cars if not a little high. After installation of the supercharger the biggest improvement to me is the amount of linear torque from 2,000 rpm to the red line. This makes the car more usable where it was made to play...on a road course! My expectations were "real" and they were achieved by Oscar and the Jackson Racing Crew. I'm posting this in response to the recent posts I have seen on this board and the "linked" web page www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper. The Type R is a unique car that has a lot more "character" than straight line performance and top speed numbers can reveal. It was born for the track (a track with turns)and loves to be driven that way. It inpires immediate confidence and is extremely well balanced at the limit. In that regard it is a class of only a few. I have had much faster and better handling cars than the Type R, or most any other street car for that matter, but the fun factor of this car is an admirable quality in itself. That's why I have one. If your looking for very dependable and "streetable" horsepower gains for your Type R, it is my opinion that the Jackson Racing Supercharger and BTC box is the way to go. Meaning it will pass emission control laws in all states and work as a daily driver without constant monitoring. As far as some of the posts that I have seen of the guys looking for the "horsepower promised"...here's the big picture. There an infinite number of parameters that surround the dyno process. Unless you have the same dyno and conditions as well as the ability to get the most out of your testing, controling the conditions, and tuning the car there can easily be a 15-25hp difference in the results. Personally, I see the results posted by Jackson Racing in a different perspective. The results tell me that they not only have a great product, but also the outstanding ability to tune the car as well as a wonderful understanding of the dyno process. This expertise enables them to get higher numbers that will be very noticable in the "real world". As you may know the Type R is a very temperamental car and in my opinion only an expert can get the most out of it. Anyone less than an expert doing the tuning and any additional modifications can be a set-up for less performance than expected. I'm sure that any of us with good mechanical skills can install this supercharger and get great results, but we may not get that coveted 200hp+ at the wheels. The amount of information on this subject (correct and incorrect) leads me to believe that I'm right in my opinion. So to the Jackson Racing Team I say this...Many Thanks! To the rest of you that read this in its entirety I say this...Any reasonable person with a comment is welcome. To all others, you may not get my response. My goal in this post is to help those that have yet to enter the supercharger market for their performance needs AND if those that already have are sitting at their monitor "nodding" their heads in agreement........Yatzee!!!!

I just love humble first posts!

Greg

Do you work for JR? (Is it oscar in disguise?)

Have you missed the numerous posts in the past where it's explained you will get much higher reading on Jacksons dyno? Gee I wonder why...

Good to have you on board. First, Congratulations on the great results you've achieved right off the bat!! I agree with you that the jrsc is a very nice package, and that it must be tuned properly to get the desired results. The problem is that most jrsc typeR owners, myself included, have not solved the mystery of how to properly tune it. I believe that at the heart of all the discontent that you see posted on this board is that Jackson Racing aggressively advertises the blower package as a simple, no-frills way to bolt-on 220 or so whp. Most of us typeR owners had no idea that the power must be coaxed out of the blower with meticulous tuning. I applaud Mike for organizing a forum for jrsc typeR owners. Yeah, once in a while we stop to bitch and moan about the problems that we've had, but for the most part, it's a positive effort to share our knowledge and experience to help each other out.

You mention that you hit over 200whp. What exactly did you achieve? Believe me, if I got over 200whp, I'd know by exactly how much. If you dyno'd at Jackson Racing, did you dyno elsewhere to confirm the accuracy. The accuracy of JR's dyno has been questioned. Could you post your dyno plot? I'm very interested to see what tuning nuances got your car over 200whp.

------------------
'00ITR#739
JRSC, JR Walbro FP, JR intake, J&S SafeGuard, JR BTC, v-afc

I smell a Troll, But he's right its torque is very useable, but 200+ HP from JRSC, and BTC, it Ridiculous.

Ok, give me a hour or so to respond to this! I'm gonna need time to get every bit of info out of me I can. I must not leave out 1 sentence from his orginal post. >) ---mike goes to work...
BTW-One a side note, I almost got another JRSC R to dyno at DSR today, yet at the last minute he backed out! I guess he was scared of the reality!

------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/

I only wish it were so easy...

(mode on)

Sounds like the Jackson is easier to tune than changing the muffler... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif

(sarcasim mode off)

jr + sweat + time + pain = whp
thats the eqa. that I know (I think most others will agree)

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****************
Marc
98R supercharged
00R Toda powered
98R All Show

First things first. Welcome to the board.

I'm glad you had a pleasurable experience at Jackson Racing. I too had pleasurable experiences until I started to have trouble then they didn't seem to want to help.

As for the tuning, how do you account for a 15-25HP difference? Did you car pull lower numbers on the first pull and then JR tuned it to a higher number? I wasn't too impressed with their tuning ability. All they wanted to do(know how to do) was advance my timing. What did they adjust on your car? Cam gears, fuel pressure, ign timing, etc?



------------------
Marc
1997 Civic EX
The supercharger is gone. Get ready for the turbo.
Want to know why I got rid of the JRSC? http://crx.honda-perf.org/horror/jrsc.html

killerbee: you forgot one of the most important elements of the whp equation: MUCHO DINERO.

Welcome to the board.

------------------
95 civic EX coupe, JRSC@6psi, BTC set at 3 clicks, 8psi coming soon with all the goodies.......

Im glad to see that most of us just are not quite smart enough to tune our cars.I have a 98 itr With a JRSC.I have had no problems,but i have never had it on a dyno.
But 3000.00?....Im going to be real upset if it clocks out the # im reading here.The btc is news to me(thanks mike)and i support the cause....By the way whos your uncle...JIm

brettd, your condescention is a great asset to this forum.

Matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holden:
I just love humble first posts!

Greg<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not start on a new board with a bang! 1600 posts? All one liners?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr18125:
Do you work for JR? (Is it oscar in disguise?)

Have you missed the numerous posts in the past where it's explained you will get much higher reading on Jacksons dyno? Gee I wonder why...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah 166hp is kinda' high isn't it. Oh you mean the 200+...so you're telling me that JR runs the base line and then flips a switch on the dyno to get the second number inflated**...seriously?

**note the sarcasm

Ok, well sorry to all for taking up bandwidth for this reply, but every word was needed to make this accurate! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif Anyway so without further delay here it is:

>>>>Currently with no other modifications the car runs flawlessly and is getting over 200hp at the wheels.>>>>
We all know the truth to that! 200whp at JR=180whp everywhere else.
>>>>>I also have had the pleasure of meeting the entire crew at Jackson Racing, including Oscar Jackson, and I am speaking from experience when I say that they are extremely courteous and informative.<<<<<<<
Meeting everyone? I highly doubt that. Hey guys I met everyone at Comptech when they did my intake! Everyone seemed so "courteous and informative." After the free hummer! LoL J/K Rich, Bob, and everyone at Comptech! J
>>>>>>>After installation of the supercharger the biggest improvement to me is the amount of linear torque from 2,000 rpm to the red line.<<<<<<<
Um why doesn?t 0-2000rpms feel good? LoL Hey people my car feels good from 5mph to 135+mph
>>>>>>This makes the car more usable where it was made to play...on a road course!<<<<<
So from 0-2000rpm is for all other driving?
>>>>>>My expectations were "real" and they were achieved by Oscar and the Jackson Racing Crew. I'm posting this in response to the recent posts I have seen on this board and the "linked" web page www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper.<<<<<<
Thanks for the link to my site! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif As for your expectations being achieved, well you state you have mods, yet you hit around 200whp? Doesn?t JR claim 215whp stock???? Hmmm, but you know falling short of 15+whp is normal with your expectations.
>>>>>The Type R is a unique car that has a lot more "character" than straight line performance and top speed numbers can reveal.<<<<<
Who's talking about straight line performance? I think when it comes to my R at 200+whp racing a 180whp stock JRSC R in any course, that will matter. BTW-I'm not into dragging. Actually, I'm going to be racing this season, so having the whp that is advertise is important. Horsepower is a factor when it comes to a 20+whp loss.
>>>>. If your looking for very dependable and "streetable" horsepower gains for your Type R, it is my opinion that the Jackson Racing Supercharger and BTC box is the way to go.>>>.
Um sure, its a streetable horsepower gain. You only getting 15 or so whp then stock! LoL But yes I will give you the fact that the "BTC is the way to go"
>>>>>>>Meaning it will pass emission control laws in all states and work as a daily driver without constant monitoring.<<<<<
Lets talk about that pulley that?s wearing on all the R's? Not to mention the failing fuel pumps, etc...
>>>>As far as some of the posts that I have seen of the guys looking for the "horsepower promised"...here's the big picture. There an infinite number of parameters that surround the dyno process.<<<<<<<
Um yeah, like JR?s BS! So what your really saying is that the 10+ JRSC R owners and us 20+ JRSC ITR owners that dyno'd are all victims of poor tuning and work? Um sure. I think I have more dyno time on my car then JR ever put into the testing of the supercharger. I have seen every possible mod, I have seen every possible anything. The fact is the R makes from 175-190 or so whp stock with the JRSC. 195-200whp with a BTC if your lucky and running stock timing.
>>>>you have the same dyno and conditions as well as the ability to get the most out of your testing, controling the conditions, and tuning the car there can easily be a 15-25hp difference in the results.<<<<<
How does this answer that comment? http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
http://www.geocities.com/supercharge...3jrsctyper.jpg
3 different type R's one installed by JR. All show the same problem. BTW-heres another link to my site showing plots. I will add the other plots I have in a few days. http://www.geocities.com/supercharge...dynoplots.html
>>>>, I see the results posted by Jackson Racing in a different perspective. The results tell me that they not only have a great product, but also the outstanding ability to tune the car as well as a wonderful understanding of the dyno process.<<<<<
All that from a simple dyno plot? Wow, talk about reading deep? By looking at my site do you see my past childhood traumas? Or do you see a reflection of my past life?s? LoL
>>>>Anyone less than an expert doing the tuning and any additional modifications can be a set-up for less performance than expected. I'm sure that any of us with good mechanical skills can install this supercharger and get great results, but we may not get that coveted 200hp+ at the wheels.<<<<<
So, what your saying is that my shop doesn?t have competent mechanics since they cannot yield a stock JRSC R above 200whp? Here's a copy of what my shop was able to do for me: (I think this is far better then anything JR could offer.
http://www.dynospotracing.com/1222/mmtyper.jpg

Ok I think I need to stop here. I really don't want to start a war (especially with a fellow JRSC R owner), but I feel its my obligation to defend this drama with JRSC R's. If its a matter of install error, tuning, etc... I doubt Shawn and Oscar would be going out of their way to help us solve this COMMON problem. If your car did hit 200+whp then congrats. I'm sure your timing is at 16deg, plus other stuff. Also did I mention that the R that was done by JR hit 210+whp at JR, where at DSR it only hit 185 or so whp that same day!!! In fact, I'm running 6deg timing and hitting 220whp. Yes, I could advance it to 16deg, turn the J&S off, and hit that magical 240+whp. Yet, I want to keep my engine. As for the track racing comments, well lets see you at WOT for 2-3min going around a track! Can you say boom! My shop and many others that have been helping us, and we all agree that the R lacks power with the JRSC. Were all trying our best to help those R owners get over the 200whp mark. IMO- it seems like your post was more of a slap in everyone?s face. The way you almost brag about your killer experience with JR, your "high 200whp", your statements of my site (which is intended to help JRSC R owners), your statements of the "true" intention of racing a R, etc... I have had my R for over 3 years now. I think I know more and have had more experience with the R then you. I am on almost every R list, I am part of every R meet, I talk to almost every JRSC R owner, I have tested almost everything, etc... For you to post and lecture me about the true intention of a R, the meaning of a good tuner/install, etc... is BS!!!! I will not take that from a person who just got his 2001 ITR a few months ago and supercharged it. WTF!!!!! How dare you lecture us on what?s right and what?s wrong, what?s true and false. I think all of us could do with out your?your.... (I think I will quote from Matt on this) "your condescension". If you have info that could help us or have some ideas to try out, well please do go ahead and post. But if you just want to sit their and tell people that their R is screwed up for not hitting good numbers and how you went to JR and hit this magical number, well then on behalf of the JRSC R community, F U.

*********Sorry for being ugly about this. I just really hate it when people talk down to me as if I don?t what I'm talking about. I think I have had more then enough experience with the R and JRSC's. Sorry Shawn for slamming you guys like that. You know that every JRSC R and I totally appreciate your help with finding a solution to this problem. I only posted this as a statement on how some people can just be stupid.**********


------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/

[This message has been edited by Rboosted717 (edited January 18, 2001).]

brettd,

We are always happy to welcome newcomers to this board. Nearly everyone on this board is friendly and helpful towards everyone (unlike some other boards). However, if you came on this board to pick a fight I can guarantee you that you won't last very long.

Some people are just a bit skeptical regarding your results because so many people have not been able to achieve the results you seem to have. Perhaps instead of flaming people you could expand on your results?

As for flaming Holden, Greg is a long time appreciated member of this forum. He has provided this page with numerous tips and insight regarding forced induction.


------------------
Marc
1997 Civic EX
The supercharger is gone. Get ready for the turbo.
Want to know why I got rid of the JRSC? http://crx.honda-perf.org/horror/jrsc.html

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Batoutahell:
Good to have you on board. First, Congratulations on the great results you've achieved right off the bat!! I agree with you that the jrsc is a very nice package, and that it must be tuned properly to get the desired results. The problem is that most jrsc typeR owners, myself included, have not solved the mystery of how to properly tune it. I believe that at the heart of all the discontent that you see posted on this board is that Jackson Racing aggressively advertises the blower package as a simple, no-frills way to bolt-on 220 or so whp. Most of us typeR owners had no idea that the power must be coaxed out of the blower with meticulous tuning. I applaud Mike for organizing a forum for jrsc typeR owners. Yeah, once in a while we stop to bitch and moan about the problems that we've had, but for the most part, it's a positive effort to share our knowledge and experience to help each other out.

You mention that you hit over 200whp. What exactly did you achieve? Believe me, if I got over 200whp, I'd know by exactly how much. If you dyno'd at Jackson Racing, did you dyno elsewhere to confirm the accuracy. The accuracy of JR's dyno has been questioned. Could you post your dyno plot? I'm very interested to see what tuning nuances got your car over 200whp.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Finally a good post! I like Mike's forum too, it just seemed a little lop-sided. I was just stating my "opinion" on the issue. No offense intended or as you'll see further down this page that I was accused of being condescending...oops! Seriously, I'll get the dyno chart posted and on Mike's page for everyone to see. As for the accuracy of the dyno...either both numbers are high or both are low....an increase is an increase. That's what I was looking for. I fully understand the frustration in "R Land", but put away the torches and send the mob home because it won't accomplish what we are all after...faster cars!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rboosted717:
Ok, give me a hour or so to respond to this! I'm gonna need time to get every bit of info out of me I can. I must not leave out 1 sentence from his orginal post. >) ---mike goes to work...
BTW-One a side note, I almost got another JRSC R to dyno at DSR today, yet at the last minute he backed out! I guess he was scared of the reality!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't bother Mike. I've read your posts and up until now have kept silent. You're spot-on when you talk about the over-rich condition at the top end...no need to pick on the new guy. I'm just new to your board, it doesn't mean I'm new to the world. I'm on te same side as the rest of you, I'm just stating my good experience..post my experience on your board. I'll always play fair and will only bite when provoked...
Lighten up guys!

Ok, point taken. BTW-Its not my board. This board has been around long before my time. Were not trying to pick on you, its just his board is a very soild community that bases everything on facts, proof, and real numbers/results. When you first came on you immeditaly starting spouting out R facts and other knowlage that we all know. Especally since I force it down these people's neck! LoL, anyway lets start off fresh. You have a 2001 R with JRSC's with a BTC. JR did all the work and it hits over 200whp. Could you give us some plots, fuel/timing settings, etc....? Also what # is your R? I would like to add you to my site if possable.
Trust me I'm not one to attack someone for crazy numbers. Heck a good friend Scott was too in your same place. In fact I too am sometime put in your place where people don't belive my numbers. I think the main reason it came down on your hard, is because you in a way put sait in a open wound. You came VERY high numbers, you compliment JR, and in the same time imply (IMO) that we are doing something wrong.
I welcome you to this board. Since your new, I will let you in on some key rules:
-Dont claim high numbers, without immediate proof, unless your well known
-Don't give JR compliments right off the bat. People might think your a JR employee (Keith, Oscar, etc... BTW-Shawn from JR posts here)
-Just becareful what you say. Many might take it as a threat, when it could have just been bad wording.

Hope that helps. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/

I haven't been talking down to anybody...Mike you need to chill. I've seen as many R's at the track as anybody on this board. I do have info that can be helpful. I'm confident my numbers are correct, and as far a lighting anybody up...you guys "seemed" good-natured. If you think I'm afraid to get on this board and state my piece of mind, you're wrong. If I ever had or will have any desired info why would I share it now? As far as coming on here and picking a fight, ya' really think I've got time for that? In the last three years I've owned and raced 2 Dodge Vipers ('97 GTS & '00 ACR), my twins girls were born and I had to slow down. Thus the ITR. It is a great car and I plan on having a blast in it. Some guys at the track have let me use theirs on occasion and it's an awesome "high rev" car, but TOTALLY different than what I'm used to. Before you start with the "BS" police, "save face" it's all true and I'm not some pimple-faced kid playing GT2. If you want to get along great. I just may be an asset. If not, none of us will lose sleep over it. Everybody take a deep breath and we'll start again....Hi guys!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brettd:
I haven't been talking down to anybody...Mike you need to chill. I've seen as many R's at the track as anybody on this board. I do have info that can be helpful. I'm confident my numbers are correct, and as far a lighting anybody up...you guys "seemed" good-natured. If you think I'm afraid to get on this board and state my piece of mind, you're wrong. If I ever had or will have any desired info why would I share it now? As far as coming on here and picking a fight, ya' really think I've got time for that? In the last three years I've owned and raced 2 Dodge Vipers ('97 GTS & '00 ACR), my twins girls were born and I had to slow down. Thus the ITR. It is a great car and I plan on having a blast in it. Some guys at the track have let me use theirs on occasion and it's an awesome "high rev" car, but TOTALLY different than what I'm used to. Before you start with the "BS" police, "save face" it's all true and I'm not some pimple-faced kid playing GT2. If you want to get along great. I just may be an asset. If not, none of us will lose sleep over it. Everybody take a deep breath and we'll start again....Hi guys!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WTF is that supposed to mean? Pimple faced kid playing GT2? I've know you for 4 posts and i already hate you. Welcome to the board.

Condescending bastard.

brettd: Remember me? In your opinion, I made the first "good post" on this thread. THIS IS NOT HONDA-ACURA.COM. Those were the words that screamed through my head after posting on this board a couple of days. One this board, unlike h-a.com and many others, you earn respect by contributing to the general wealth of knowledge, not by slinging clever one-liners at respected members. I say this without a condescending tone, in that I am also new member of this board that has yet to earn the respect of its members. The olive branch has been extended. Stop posturing and start contributing to the tech discussion about our cars. You will find it to be a worthwhile venture.

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'00ITR#739
JRSC, JR Walbro FP, JR intake, J&S SafeGuard, JR BTC, v-afc

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hallusin8.com:
WTF is that supposed to mean? Pimple faced kid playing GT2? I've know you for 4 posts and i already hate you. Welcome to the board.

Condescending bastard.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You took that wrong...and hate is a pretty strong word. What I meant by that is simply this. On a lot of message boards there are "kids" that don't even have cars and get in these discussions pretending that they do. (Play Station Gran Turismo)I have seen it alot and when I was making my point about the switch from Vipers (rwd/torque) to a Type R (fwd/revs) ...I thought with the amount of animosity that I have already received that this board would think I was that "pimply-faced kid". Everybody settle down...My "OPINION" is "MY" opinion. Also, never once did I say that a lot of you weren't "experts", because in my "OPINION" a lot of you are. That doesn't mean you started that way...and if I'm not mistaken that's what sparked www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper. Please read my posts without malice because non is intended. HATE? C'mon!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rboosted717:
Ok, point taken. BTW-Its not my board. This board has been around long before my time. Were not trying to pick on you, its just his board is a very soild community that bases everything on facts, proof, and real numbers/results. When you first came on you immeditaly starting spouting out R facts and other knowlage that we all know. Especally since I force it down these people's neck! LoL, anyway lets start off fresh. You have a 2001 R with JRSC's with a BTC. JR did all the work and it hits over 200whp. Could you give us some plots, fuel/timing settings, etc....? Also what # is your R? I would like to add you to my site if possable.
Trust me I'm not one to attack someone for crazy numbers. Heck a good friend Scott was too in your same place. In fact I too am sometime put in your place where people don't belive my numbers. I think the main reason it came down on your hard, is because you in a way put sait in a open wound. You came VERY high numbers, you compliment JR, and in the same time imply (IMO) that we are doing something wrong.
I welcome you to this board. Since your new, I will let you in on some key rules:
-Dont claim high numbers, without immediate proof, unless your well known
-Don't give JR compliments right off the bat. People might think your a JR employee (Keith, Oscar, etc... BTW-Shawn from JR posts here)
-Just becareful what you say. Many might take it as a threat, when it could have just been bad wording.

Hope that helps. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me? Bad Wording? I'll get the info you'd like in the next day or so. Sorry for some of the typo's last night, sleepy+typing fast=typos.
Also I think this discussion board "crashed" last night...I couldn't get back in. Or was that the conspiracy! LOL We'll talk soon. Thanks for the understanding, especially after the "roasting".

Ummm.....U guys are NUTS!!!!!
Mike has/is helping me with my JRSC ITR but now Im thinking i shouldn't do it. The reason being that brettd comes here and sounds like a typing rebuttle to Mikes whole site (I think someone at JR just found it and they had a meeting about what to do) Why would I want to promote a company that does this?

Mike doesn't sugar coat sh!t. he tells it like it is(its not his product). But the fact of the matter is he still runs the SC and he still helps out newbies (like me). I could have called JR but why would I go to the company that makes it,so they can tell me its the BEST product on the market? HELL NO!! All making claims that it gives 240whp stand alone, yea right! and my red emblems give me 5 whp. No I want to talk to someone that has been down the wrong side of the hype and came back stronger. AND STILL PROMOTES IT!!!!!

BTW mike thanx for the help yesterday and future help.

[This message has been edited by cetane (edited January 18, 2001).]

Man you guys are insane! I have been reading this board for 6 months now. From my screen name you can see that I own a lude and I am praying for the day of the JRSC for the lude. I finally had to post something.

You guys come on here all the time and kill JR. If somebody comes on here and states anything other than bad results you guys turn on them with lightning quickness! So this guy goes to JR, they tune it to 200+...you all say that isnt possible and list the ways. Now I have seen Shawn on here talking about trying to find a fix. Have you guys ever had Oscar tune your car? I mean come on the guy designs the damn things! I have read on several different pages about people having him tune their car and it more than they ever expected. I am just wondering why this guy gets lit up because he say "hey I like the guys at JR and I have 200+(not much over probably), it is not what is quoted but I like it any way!"

People on this board are quick to judge and through mud. He didnt come on here quoting 235 with only a btc. I guess your annamosity(sp) comes from the JR themselves quoting 230 with just simple tuning. I dont here a single person on here or any other board pissing and moaning about Greddy or HKS or any other turbo manf about how much money they have spent, engines they have blown or difficulty getting it right. They understand it is a labor of love, search knowledge and passion.

Dudes sell your JRSC, get a loan or pull some of your saving and invest the 6K-10K to build a motor, get the turbo and all the addons and be happy. Damn...who cares who has more dyno hours, gadgets, fixes, laptimes..if this is supposed to be a place of mutual shared knowledge and passion, it sure turns into a pissing match real quick!

I might be on here in 2 months when they fially introduce the JRSC for the SH complaining, but I know what the blowers can do and I will invest the time and money to get a daily driver, that meets the CA smog and can kill wankers with the greatest of ease. HMMMM...stock they were quoting 228 whp....HMMMM....hopefully only a few months away....


Flame away....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Toxin:
brettd, your condescention is a great asset to this forum.

Matt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahhhhhaahahahahahaha Thats is hilarious!!!!!!! OMG!!! Your the man Matt! My reply will be done in a few min. >)



------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brettd:
That doesn't mean you started that way...and if I'm not mistaken that's what sparked www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper. Please read my posts without malice because non is intended. HATE? C'mon!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike did not start his site to bash JR. He created it to offer information to help other JRSC Type R owners and to effectively show JR that there are flaws in the Type R kit that need to be addressed so future JRSC R owners don't have to do what he did to get decent power out of the kit.

Marc

(scratching head) I'm still trying to figure out why, in the course of this long thread, you still haven't posted your dyno results, your exact whp, or details of how JR tuned your car over 200whp. Don't get me wrong, seeing tangible proof of 200whp with only the base kit and BTC would give me great hope that more power lies hidden in my car. PLEASE take a moment to post the data.

and this fruitless argument is exactly why it may be more useful to use a device that measures time v. rpm on the road. this way you get a real world umber, which may not be transferrable to another car, but will lead to a positive proof of increased acceleration (or torque) over an rpm range. then all this bickering over the numbers will be completely useless and people will be able to say "my car lost 1.3 seconds from 3000 rpm to 6600 rpmafter i tuned my xxxxx".

The only JRSC R i've seen that hit over 200+WHP and was completely stock was this guy in TEN..

He had JRSC+EFI PMS, and thats it, i think it was around 205WHP

Other than that its hard to due with our ECU's, I don't care what anyone says..

Rboosted, i don't think you have him on your site, but i'll try to locate his email...
but you can check his car out at
http://www.engineered.net/dynopage.htm

I am going to approach this one slowly. I know for a fact that brettd does not have stock (out of the box) fuel management. It is close to what is out of the box with a few twists. Believe me guys. I/We have Oscars full attention on this subject. He is doing another 2000 ITR late this week and then Spunkster is suppose to come over on Thursday next week to dial in his car.

BTW, Spunkster give me a call to put the icing on the last few details.

I am waiting for an email from Oscar describing what we/he is working on to upgrade the fuel. I already know but want to try to use his words as opposed to paraphrasing.

brettd- Thanks for sticking up for us and trying to help out.

well i'd like to thank mike and the other guys that have talked about their troubles with JR. I then went with a turbo on my R and am expericencing my own difficulties http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif

OK, here it is in Oscar's words.

"Well, I can't tell you anything or you will tell the world.

Now, really, here is the gig. I have created a "box" that will convert the
MAP sensor to read boost. With this "box" and a stock fuel pump set at 45
tip in, relay at 15K (as supplied) the fuel curve should be nearly perfect. I say nearly because the
Type R I did last week for Brett (2001 model/166hp stock at the
wheels) was STILL slightly over rich at the top end. But, it did make 202
hp consistently.

I am finishing another TypeR(2000 model/172hp stock at the wheels) (really
good power for a stocker, maybe the best I have ever seen in stock form).
Our second update box is going in that car with our regular relay, stock
fuel pump, BTC and a Charge Air Induction. I will let you know how the fuel
curve comes out later today."

O

Addendum by me-
The box intercepts the signal for the MAP sensor and modifies the O2 sensor signal until you go into open loop. At 1psi of boost the box modifies the O2 voltage telling the ECU it is 10% too lean. It does the same at 2psi and tells the computer that it is 20% too lean. At that point the car should be in open loop. The box has a voltage clamp that doesn't allow the ECU to see more than 5 volts so you don't trip a CEL.

So the recommendation right now for the lack of power is as follows (me paraphrasing my conversation with OJ):
Stock fuel pump
45-55 psi at Tip in (vacuum hose removed)
Relay with resistor
Important part
BTC (To keep the mid range detonation away because it will now be leaner 13:1)
OR Rafes TPS mod to get the fuel right away OR both.

Anyone in a situation that is going to the dyno soon that can put this to the test?

Like I said, we are working on it.

One last comment and I have to say this.

Dyno's can be fudged. There is no doubt in many ways. Oscar would never tamper with the dyno runs and for most dyno runs I have seen them repeated when I was there. It is not what the man is about. His reputation is one of his most important assets.

I don't think any company can deny that they don't choose the most optomistic dyno though to promote their product whether it is any aftermarket company or Honda for that matter.
And if they deny it they are lying.


[This message has been edited by mr detail (edited January 18, 2001).]

hmm let me get this straight

number of JRSC ITR owners w/ fuel problems X Oscars new "box" at est.$400 = rich ass Oscar

We only wish making money was that easy.
I am lobbying that this device is retro for all type R's if it truly does what it looks like it will.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mr detail:

Now, really, here is the gig. I have created a "box" that will convert the
MAP sensor to read boost. With this "box" and a stock fuel pump set at 45
tip in, relay at 15K (as supplied) the fuel curve should be nearly perfect. I say nearly because the
Type R I did last week for Brett (2001 model/166hp stock at the
wheels) was STILL slightly over rich at the top end. But, it did make 202
hp consistently.

What i want to know is how much this is, and when we be able to get our hands on.. Now if there is a way to fix the Relay, so it don't run to rich at the top end. I say we should get this free of charge.........

And i ran 164.4WHP STOCK,
And JRSC +MSD6BTM, JR INTAKE, 187.8WHP 138.1TQ...



[This message has been edited by 00ITR006 (edited January 18, 2001).]

Ahh... reminds me of the oldschool classic flamewars on USENET!

This is great!

------------------
She's for sale. 14k OBO. 1995 Integra LS. Blown.
http://patriot.net/~jeff/teg

I agree 00ITR006

The relay is not necessarily the problem.
The 'box' as does Rafes TPS mod allows fuel to come in as soon as boost starts. This is critical to being able to lower the tip in fuel pressure. If we can lower the tip in fuel pressure than the fuel will be leaner all the way across the rpm range. In addition, the pump that we supply is also pushing harder causing the car to be rich. By being able to lower the pressures we don't need the big pump to keep up with those high pressures that were being achieved.
In essence, with Rafes current TPS mod you should be able to put in the stock pump and lower tip in pressures about 10psi.

[This message has been edited by mr detail (edited January 18, 2001).]

Aha!! I think I'm starting to see the light. Is this "black box" the fabled "v-pack" that's been rumored for retail sale possibly in the spring?

Shawn, I'm scheduled to drive from KC to Omaha for another expensive dyno session this Saturday to tune a/f some more. Is there light at the end of the tunnel with this black box? I'd hate to keep spending money on the dyno and aftermarket parts to tune my car if there's a good chance this magic box will solve all our problems.

If this black box is the solution to all our problems, I hope JR seriously considers retrofitting it to jrsc'd itr's free of charge, as some of us have already spent exhorbitant amounts of time and money in aftermarket parts and dyno time in an effort to resolve the inherent shortcomings of the base kit.