Printable View
Francine's daughter could very well be telling this story. It's more than just feasible that she could be telling the story of her mother and her best friend. She could've asked each about thier experiences in life with each other. as for the little bit that only Tambi should know, she could be asking her for details as well. I mean they're all family right?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AnotsuSagami:
Francine's daughter could very well be telling this story. It's more than just feasible that she could be telling the story of her mother and her best friend. She could've asked each about thier experiences in life with each other. as for the little bit that only Tambi should know, she could be asking her for details as well. I mean they're all family right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
She could be writing the story (for shame Terry, taking all the credit http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif ), but as a character, she couldn't be telling it. There are too many first person contemporaneous narations to be the naration of Francine's daughter some years after her appearances to date.
------------------
A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again. -Alexander Pope
Well, I doubt she's 'telling' the story, it doesn't fit that kind of narrative. But I do think SiP is going to take a shift and Ashley is going to take center stage very soon. It's the only thing that makes sense, given some of the things Terry has said, and the story will continue through her eyes for an arc or two. I guess it is also possible SiP could become a generational book if Terry decided to finally wrap up Kat and Francie's story at some point, because Ashley is/will be very much affected by all the problems and the eventual resolution of the basic conflict between them. I must admit I wasn't expecting that, but when the push/pull relationship between F & K is finally sorted out, that doesn't mean SiP HAS to be over-F&K's story may finish, but it may resonate in a character so deeply affectd by all of this (even more than David, Freddie, Casey, or Tambi) that in essence, the conflict doesn't actually end, but just gets transferred to Ashley. Damn, I already feel sorry for her...poor kid
Darth
------------------
'There can be sex without love, love without sex, and situations so intermixed that nobody can sort out which is which.'
-Lazarus Long, 'Time Enough for Love'-Robert Heinlein
I think Ashley is facinating, for all that we've only seen a few glimpses of her we already know she is imaginative and determined, and her favorite color is purple! I also noticed (and I may be the only one, I've never heard anyone else mention it) that she had a slight speech impediment talking to her mother and grandmother, but none whatsoever when talking with 'aunt' Katchoo. I think it will be very interesting to see how she comes about, we know she is five and that Fran and Brad are married for ten years... so why do they wait so long to have her? I thought Francines entire reason for getting married was to make babies... so? Why so long, and why only one? Francine has always said 'children' not 'a child'.
------------------
Well, if Francie is indeed pregnant now, just before she marries Brad, like many have speculated, and she doesn't have a 10 year old child ten years later, something obviously goes terribly wrong...
This sort of trauma could account for the 5 years 'wait'
Darth
------------------
'There can be sex without love, love without sex, and situations so intermixed that nobody can sort out which is which.'
-Lazarus Long, 'Time Enough for Love'-Robert Heinlein
Except for the fact that it's highly improbable that Francine is pregnant at this point in the story...I'd venture to say that there is something bigger going on that she doesn't have more children than just Ashley...
------------------
Ponte facto, Caesar transit.
Good catch about Ashley's lisp, Anaka. My guess is that this is learned behavior. Francine and Marie undoubtedly used baby talk to Ashley when she was an infant, and she knows that they think it is cute. But Katchoo talks to her as an equal, and Ashley decides she wants to be treated as an adult. This more adult speech continues for a little with Marie.
------------------
Magiae adfui.
I wouldn't be all that surprised if Ashley's telling the story.
Another thought about Ashley; I'm wondering if Brad's the real dad. An affair or is she adopted?
------------------
The ninja lesbian milk getter.
Please click on that banner.
Follow your dreams.
ChatterBox
"Snatch." I absolutely loved it I got to see the one before it "Lock stock and two smoking barrels"
The last person I said I love you to was my girlfriend Rei. I looked deep into her hazel eyes and said "I love you, Rei. I love you more than I ever could've imagined."
What's your favorite cd?
------------------
*is totally confused by Anotsu's post, which sounds like a Q&A answer totally misplaced*
Anyway, I was thinking what if Francine is preganant, has a child, and the child is given up/is stolen/grows up a little and runs away/etc.
------------------
"Be excellent to each other." -Bill & Ted
"Do we need to have the "fantasy/reality" discussion again?" - eris
Feminist Rants
"Heaven holds a sense of wonder and I wanted to believe that I'd be called up when the rage in me subsides." - Sarah McLachlan w/ Delerium
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jaxom 27:
Except for the fact that it's highly improbable that Francine is pregnant at this point in the story...I'd venture to say that there is something bigger going on that she doesn't have more children than just Ashley...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jax, what makes it so highly improbable?
------------------
Vir: Kiron may die because our "glorious" tradition values wealth and power over love.
Londo: My shoes are too tight.
Vir: Excuse me?
Londo: Something my father said. He was old, very old at the time. I went into his room, and he was sitting alone in the dark, crying. So I asked him what was wrong, and he said, "My shoes are too tight, but it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance." I never understood what that meant until now. My shoes are too tight, and I have forgotten how to dance. - Babylon 5
- Really I am a woman...honest!
- Resident KiSA (Knight in Shining Armor!)
- I believe trust is more important than monogamy (Savage Garden - Affirmation)
- Namesake of AsIs the kitten!
I don't think she's adopted. She looks too much like her mother. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif The affair idea has promise, though. I can see Fran, already in her deep funk we see in the flash-forward, having an affair.
Could be.
Um, Francine is SO not pregnant at this point in the storyline. Get over it http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/tongue.gif
It is interesting that there's only one child at this point, probably has lots to do with the problems in Fran's marriage to Brad, but to say they've been married for 10 years and Ashley's only five is to make the assumption that the last K & F see of each other is at Fran's wedding. Has that been established?
And Fran's dream was 2 kids, Daniel(?) and Ashley, and a golden retriever named Mikey. Two out of three? Or a crib death?
Smitty
------------------
recently separated
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SMITTYGIRL:
. . . is to make the assumption that the last K & F see of each other is at Fran's wedding. Has that been established?
Smitty
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
its as established as anything Francine has said (and she's pretty accurate so long as she's not describing herself or her relationships (which of course she was)). http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
------------------
A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again. -Alexander Pope
I still don't understand why it's so improbable that Fran's pregnant. I'd like to hear reasons why (I'm not convinced of her condition one way or another).
It has been established that Fran and Kat last see each other at Fran's wedding and that Fran has been married 10 years. I don't remember the issue numbers off the top of my head, though.
------------------
The ninja lesbian milk getter.
Take the time to look up at the moon and stars.
Please click on that banner.
ChatterBox
[This message has been edited by Branflakes (edited August 23, 2001).]
Well there was a long discussion on why Francie was throwing up in the last issue, and the conclusions most have drawn are that 1) she was sick with nerves and her planned speech 2) Francine and Brad may not have been having 'relations',remeber how she was going to make Freddie 'wait' a year, and when Katchoo angrily asked Brad if Franie 'was just good in bed' he said 'none of your business' which is near-universal for 'I ain't gettin any and don't want to tell You that' 3) if Francine and Brad have been having 'relations' after thier engagement, they were cut off as Francine became more certain of her uncertainty. So I at least am sure she is not pregnant, if she is however she would know it and she dosen't act like it.
------------------
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anaka:
Well there was a long discussion on why Francie was throwing up in the last issue, and the conclusions most have drawn are that 1) she was sick with nerves and her planned speech 2) Francine and Brad may not have been having 'relations',remeber how she was going to make Freddie 'wait' a year, and when Katchoo angrily asked Brad if Franie 'was just good in bed' he said 'none of your business' which is near-universal for 'I ain't gettin any and don't want to tell You that' 3) if Francine and Brad have been having 'relations' after thier engagement, they were cut off as Francine became more certain of her uncertainty. So I at least am sure she is not pregnant, if she is however she would know it and she dosen't act like it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1. Quite possible. I am simply speculating about pregnancy, not claiming to be omnipotent.
2. Brad is not Freddie. And we know how well holding out with Freddie worked for Francine. Not sure she would go that route again. At the time Francine met Brad Katchoo had pretty determinedly showed/told Francine to get lost after the plane crash, so after some time Francine moved on with her life. Nothing has shown me that Brad and Francine are *not* having sex. And it does appear they are sharing the same bed and living as a couple. If Brad had answered Katchoo's question then he would have been much less of a man than he has been portrayed as so far. He was protecting Francine and good for him! While I am not a fan of their relationship, I do like Brad a lot as a character. He is a good guy and cares about Francine. Credit where credit is due.
3. Francine's admiting her uncertainty has been recent. Probably less than a month of story time. Several months for us is not necessarily several months for the character. And as far as Francine acting like it... my guess would be *if* she is pregnant, morning sickness is relatively recent and for good reasons she would chalk it up to nerves. But Francine didn't *rule* it out when her mother asked. Yeah she had more on her mind at the time, but if someone asked me if I was pregnant, I would tell them only if they believed in immaculant conception. Francine didn't dismiss the idea, leading me back to thinking that she and Brad have had sex.
It is possible that Francine is pregnant, there is nothing in the storyline that has told us contrary. Not saying anyone has to agree that she is. I am not certain of it myself, but I do believe it is a strong possibility for why Katchoo and Francine don't get back together. On the porch when Francine dumps Katchoo, a Key reason is that wants to have kids and in her reality Katchoo can't give her that. And she does love Brad. But even she isn't sure that she is In Love with him. So she is going off to see Katchoo.
There are tons of different ways this story can go. And I believe that Terry is a very talented writer and will throw in plots twists we don't see coming. There are plenty of ways he can go. But there is no harm in speculating about a few. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
------------------
Vir: Kiron may die because our "glorious" tradition values wealth and power over love.
Londo: My shoes are too tight.
Vir: Excuse me?
Londo: Something my father said. He was old, very old at the time. I went into his room, and he was sitting alone in the dark, crying. So I asked him what was wrong, and he said, "My shoes are too tight, but it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance." I never understood what that meant until now. My shoes are too tight, and I have forgotten how to dance. - Babylon 5
- Really I am a woman...honest!
- Resident KiSA (Knight in Shining Armor!)
- I believe trust is more important than monogamy (Savage Garden - Affirmation)
- Namesake of AsIs the kitten!
I don't think Brad is living with Francine and Marie, they live out in the sticks, and if he's a doctor he is going to be in the city. Also the times he has been shown coming over he knocked on the door, do you knock on your own door? Yes Francine has a double bed, and I would be willing to speculate that she had him over to spend night atimes. But also think she and her mother has the xtian thing going(especially her mother) and a big part of that is no sex before marriage. People seem to be skipping over this bit, sure she is not a virgin, but she might have decided in her mind to 'do things right!', and part of that would be to remain chaste until married. And just because Marie is overjoyed that her wild daughter is setteling down with a Doctor dosen't mean she would allow unwed fornication in her house. I don't know, we know how hypocritical she can be, and blind to what she dosen't wish to see. She may turn a blind eye to her daughters closed door and thank God she's with a man.
------------------
honestly, no one can say that franice is pregnant or not. you cant, i cant, no one can. thats all there is to it. she might be and she might not. we will see in the next couple issues.
Oooh, this is all so interesting.
Here's my theory about the whole Francine's pregnancy theory. I kind of hope that she is pregnant. I've heard people discuss the possibility of her miscarrying, and then getting angry at Katchoo, but I'm kind of going another route.
Supposing that she has a healthy baby boy, and it grows up a few years, and then dies for some reason. Couldn't that possibly cause a bit of a rift in Francine and Brad's relationship? A death of a kid can be hard to take, and with Francine pining for Katchoo, Brad might feel the need to buckle down in his work, and perhaps not get too close to Ashley, because the other kid died.
Well, I'm just rambling. And, on a lighter note, am I the only one who's wondered what it would be like if Tambi and Freddie got married? Heh, what in-law problems Katchoo'll have.
Marie
------------------
Many people have stated that it's odd that Francine and Brad only have one child after ten years (I suppose this is due to Francine's desire to have a normal life. I'm not sure where this came from, but still...)
Is it possible that Francine was unhappy w/ her marriage to Brad soon after her daughter was born? Or maybe before? Her pregnancy could have been arranged in an attempt to help her marriage to Brad.
Any Thoughts?
------------------
"I made some coffee and I overheard the neighbors, too;
Sometimes they laugh,
Sometimes they scream:
It all reminds me of you..."
- Greg Anttonito
"I'm not a punk, but I play one on T.V."
I firmly, FIRMLY, believe that the Francie we see tossin' cookies is a Francie who is not only nervous, but disgusted with herself, right before we see her have her talk with Brad and Marie.
A pregnant Francine would not be doing what she is about to do. She would suck up and deal (because she believe she has to, not neccissarily because she would want to). Pregnancy would be a crutch for Franciine to avoid dealing with the Katchoo question.
My 2 cents.
------------------
Ponte facto, Caesar transit.
I would agree with you Jax, if I thought she KNEW she was pregnant. Francine is an expert in denial as we all know.....
My money is on pregnant/doesn't know it.
But if i'm wrong I won't cry or anything, I'm sure it'll be interesting whatever happens.
Darth
------------------
'There can be sex without love, love without sex, and situations so intermixed that nobody can sort out which is which.'
-Lazarus Long, 'Time Enough for Love'-Robert Heinlein
Uh, what Darth said. IF Francine is pregnant, she doesn't know it yet as of last issue.
------------------
Vir: Kiron may die because our "glorious" tradition values wealth and power over love.
Londo: My shoes are too tight.
Vir: Excuse me?
Londo: Something my father said. He was old, very old at the time. I went into his room, and he was sitting alone in the dark, crying. So I asked him what was wrong, and he said, "My shoes are too tight, but it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance." I never understood what that meant until now. My shoes are too tight, and I have forgotten how to dance. - Babylon 5
- Really I am a woman...honest!
- Resident KiSA (Knight in Shining Armor!)
- I believe trust is more important than monogamy (Savage Garden - Affirmation)
- Namesake of AsIs the kitten!
AsIs, you're claiming to be Omniscient, but I'm sure you already knew that http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif Terry's the one who's omnipotent...
I'm going with the pregnant/ knows but isn't telling idea.
Brad would say "none of your business" if he was getting some and he knew that Katchoo never got any! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/tongue.gif That's universal for: Wouldn't YOU like to know!
Marie (Francine's Mum, not Sedorna http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif ) isn't that bad! She's adapted a lot over the years. She's not appalled at the idea of Francine being gay, just opposed to it. She must know Francine's no virgin, so why not sex before marriage if they're engaged? Perhaps not in her house of course...
So where's the current child and who might the father be? Any bets on Freddie? Nah, didn't think so...
------------------
No will but thy will
No law but the laws you make
Self-proclaimed "LairPet"...Wierder than the average cat!
Captain TMI!...Resident Feline Expert! >^..^<
"I always pictured you as the mother type." Francine has the physique for easy pregnancy and birth and for nurturing. Was it this that Brad found attractive? It certainly wasn't her personality at the time of their first meeting. So he may be planning a big family. But we don't really know his attitude on this subject. Perhaps he doesn't believe in large families. When you are speculating about why Francine has only one child ten years after the wedding, don't forget that Brad has some say in the matter.
Anyway, she should see her gynecologist. He would know whether she is pregnant. ... By the way, who is her gynecologist? http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
------------------
Peregrinator in paradiso.
I'm guessing not Brad... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/tongue.gif
------------------
Before allowing drunken friend to cheat on his girl, you must attempt one
intervention. If he is able to get on his feet, look you in the eye, and deliver
a "F...OFF!" You are absolved of your of responsibility.
How did AnotsuSagami know?
------------------
Peregrinator in paradiso.
Impressive!
------------------
- "This is a dream." "No, not a dream. A Nightmare. And if sometimes dreams come ture, what of our nightmares?" (Sheridan and Galen)
- Resident KiSA (Knight in Shining Armor!)
- Forgiveness doesn't come with a debt. (Mary Chapin Carpenter - I Take My Chances)
- Namesake of AsIs the kitten!
Yeah that's a thought... any Gyn. worth thier salt would try and limit pregnany, knowing how hard on a woman's body it is (and Trays... sure Francine has a generous figure to make pregnancy more bearable- but there's no such thing as 'easy' pregnancy). And hopefully he also feels a little responsibility to our future and our poor overpopulated world, he might have said 'only one'. Francine had only planned on two originally (way to go Zero Population Growth!) but for people who've ever coped with infertility, getting pregnant is not as easy as Springer would lead you to believe. They might have been trying for a while and after five years gave up and got invitro or something, Ashley looks to much like both of them to be adopted, I think. Did anyone notice in 43 when we see Ashley grown up, that she has Brad's eyes? And a bit of the jaw too, Francine's face is rounder. I don't see Francine as having an affair, she's to much the loyal type.
------------------
The first time I read this thread I thought AnotsuSagami was crazy. I guess he/she gets the last laugh.
------------------