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I was going to post this on the issue 44 spoilers topic but it seemed to merit its own thread.
As a long time David fan it always bothers me seeing the negative press he gets on this message board. The girls get criticized, but I don't recall reading posts from fans expressing passion AGAINST them with the frequency David gets it.
So, on the spoilers thread the concept of David being spineless has appeared more than once and my knee-jerk reaction has been to intervene, however I'm afraid I'm stuck without a defense.
I hadn't realized until now that I'd been harboring anger towards SIP concerning David. It started in the issue where Katchoo trashed David's room in one of her fits with Francine. I don't know the issue number, but I remember staring in disbelief at the panel where David's in shock over what happened to his room, wondering if Terry meant it as a punchline.
I'm sorry if that scene was meant to be a tension breaker because I'm afraid I found it to be quite horrifying on a psychological level. That scene wasn't dealt with. Did Katchoo apologize, or for that matter FEEL anything for disrespecting David's personal space? Did David just shrug it off? Did he repress any hostility over it? Life just went on as usual afterwards, and I think my attitude towards SIP shifted with that issue.
I've really grown to resent Katchoo. I resent what Francine, David, her creator, and a significant portion of SIP fans permit her to get away with. Katchoo has crossed the line on more than one ocassion, and it drives me mad that nobody calls her on it. So I suppose I have to concur with the claim that David is missing a spine. He should have been hell and gone from there a long time ago.
Which brings me in a round about way to what I was going to say in the first place. Why does he remain with Katchoo? Is it because he has nowhere else to go? Does he really think she's eventually going to come around? Does he feel if he can "save" her he'll in a sense be "saving" himself? Why would a reborn Christian place so much of his own power onto another person?
I really hope I'm making sense right now. This topic has been welling up in me for quite some time.
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Reborn Christian not withstanding, David has a deep love for Katchoo. I don't think it has anything to do with not having a spine. In the overall of the story, we haven't seen a lot of David. Perhaps Terry one day will grace us with a few David centric story plots. Yes, he takes a lot from Katchoo, but a new spin on an old topic, is it the lack of strength that prevents David from going or is it the evidence of strength that David does not abandon her. I think with some of the conversation revealed toward the end of #44, we are starting to see David's ebbing of hope with Katchoo. How many times can one turn love away at the door before it doesn't return? In a way, Katchoo expects David to be there for her and when the time comes that he isn't there, I believe Katchoo will be more deeply affected than she will let on. David is not neccessarily the third wheel here. Francine in her own way counts on David being there, and in a way, David is the guy who doesn't leave. He is not the one who gets fed up with not being able to have his own way and walks out. I don't think David is spineless so much as the quiet rock variety. David is much tougher than most give him credit for being. When this story gets around to really putting David to the test so to speak, I think that David will surprise us all.
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if the world is going nuts, who has the nutcracker?
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I too agree with nicewitch's assessment of David. This is why SIP is a great comic for me, because there is something in each of the characters' personality I identify with. In David's case, I have stuck by friends I love even when they pull f***ed up crap because there is a core of beauty that makes being with them worthwhile. Especially if you're in love with them. Each of us has a breaking point and will walk away when rejected, but I'm one of those guys who feels it's worth the pain (most of the time)to stay friends with the object of my affection. The results for me have been some of the closest friendships I cherish.
Katchoo is definitely high maintenance and creates havoc in the lives of those close to her which is why she spends a lot of time pushing them away. But David has that quality of PATIENCE which offsets Katchoo's selfish and sometimes cruel behavior. Ultimately, this is a very co-dependent relationship. Whether it's healthy or not is another matter altogether.
Though David is not my favorite character, I see myself in his love for Katchoo. How many of us out there are attracted to someone who is clearly not good for us? Maybe that's what the strong reaction to David's wimpiness is about? I don't see it as being wimpy, though. Isn't longsuffering considered a virtue sometimes? Virtue or not, I do relate. I don't think David views himself that way -- as "poor, doomed David". I look forward to Terry exploring this a little more.
Josh
patient, in Brooklyn
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I too agree with nicewitch's assessment of David. This is why SIP is a great comic for me, because there is something in each of the characters' personality I identify with. In David's case, I have stuck by friends I love even when they pull f***ed up crap because there is a core of beauty that makes being with them worthwhile. Especially if you're in love with them. Each of us has a breaking point and will walk away when rejected, but I'm one of those guys who feels it's worth the pain (most of the time)to stay friends with the object of my affection. The results for me have been some of the closest friendships I cherish.
Katchoo is definitely high maintenance and creates havoc in the lives of those close to her which is why she spends a lot of time pushing them away. But David has that quality of PATIENCE which offsets Katchoo's selfish and sometimes cruel behavior. Ultimately, this is a very co-dependent relationship. Whether it's healthy or not is another matter altogether.
Though David is not my favorite character, I see myself in his love for Katchoo. How many of us out there are attracted to someone who is clearly not good for us? Maybe that's what the strong reaction to David's wimpiness is about? I don't see it as being wimpy, though. Isn't longsuffering considered a virtue sometimes? Virtue or not, I do relate. I don't think David views himself that way -- as "poor, doomed David". I look forward to Terry exploring this a little more.
Josh
patient, in Brooklyn
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Josh
from Brooklyn
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Speaking as a David and in certain ways a former one. I have to say that he stays because hes in love, sometimes we make the mistake that we think that you have to suffer for love. Ive noticed that artists tend to have this thought.
I think he stays because perhaps she stirred a change in him. And maybe he feels he has to return the act.
I really cant tell you more because these are all plot points that are still not clear.
Theyre have been three reasons i have seen and experianced as to way people stay in unhappy situations.
one the suffering for love concept
two lo self esteme.
three gratitude
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See ya,
David
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Reasons why David stays, in no particular order:
1. She baked him a cake.
2. She has kissed him on many occasions, sometimes fogging his glasses and turning his ears red.
3. She has had sex with him. Francine never had sex with her. You might as well ask, why does Katchoo keep coming back to Francine?
4. She told him that she had always loved him and always would love him.
5. She saved his life.
But ultimately, love is not a question of logic. Few people are as strictly logical in their romantic life as Veronica. Read "Of Human Bondage" or see the movie with Bettie Davis (it's not about ropes and leather) for an example of a destructive, one-way love. But the Bettie Davis character never gave the hero any sign of affection. In contrast Katchoo has given David many signs of love.
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Peregrinator in paradiso.
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I think a good part of the reason why the whole David-Katchoo relationship (defined or not) gets to me so deeply is because of an all too familiar personal situation that I'm thankful to no longer be in. So many themes strike a chord, the waiting, the compliments that fall on deaf ears, and so on.
I wound up going to see a counselor for depression, and I discovered that so much of what was unhealthy about my life could be summed up in my putting so much effort into trying to make someone else happy with the romantic illusion that evetually she would do the same for me and everything would suddenly be okay.
I see this reflected brightly in David's draw towards Katchoo. By that token I can't help but feel he's not in as much in love with Katchoo as he is in love with the concept of Katchoo. My counselor explained to me why it's such an easy trap to fall into, and why getting out of it involves some really dramatic changes. Suffice to say, I'm much happier living where I am now, and I rarely feel tinges of depression.
So in a nutshell I believe David is putting his life on hold for something that isn't going to happen. That's obviously a personal projection of myself onto the character, but it seems to fit so easily. I just feel like screaming into the comic for David to pull up stakes and move on. Let it hurt, then let it hurt a little less, then let it heal. It's sad, but that's not always a bad thing.
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Very well put, nicewitch. I counldn't have said it better myself. I too, was disappointed with the verbal beating David is taking in the #44 thread because I think people are totally misinterpeting his actions. The fact of the matter is that David is truely in love with Katchoo, and like you said, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a spine. Look at all the things he's been through with/for her. That takes more than a spineless person. And through it all, Katchoo has continuously lead him to believe that hope springs eternal. (Personally, I think that if the story didn't center around Francine and Katchoo, Katchoo would look just as bad. How many years has she been pining away after Francine now?) Anyway, I think it's obvious that David's been wiseing up ever since they went to hawaii and Katchoo (finally) started being clear on where she stands with him. There've been hints in every one of the latest issues (except 43, of course). So I think that something is about to happen there.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mousse:
I resent what Francine, David, her creator, and a significant portion of SIP fans permit her to get away with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uhm, you resent me? You resent Terry Moore? WTF?
You do realize that none of the characters in SiP are real people, and merely the creation of an man attempting the most difficult form of human comminication(art)
Ferchrissakes, it's not like I sat on my balcony watching Kitty Genovese getting murdered......
I haven't let Katchoo 'get away' with anything..... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mousse:
Why would a reborn Christian place so much of his own power onto another person?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because that's the very first thing you do when you get 're-born'- you put the entirety off your life and responsibility for it in the hands of Jesus.
Why does David stay? Because he's co-dependant and wouldn't know his own best interest if it bit him on the @$$.
I blame Darcy's abuse, but there wouldn't be a 'co' in co-dependant if some of the blame didn't lie with David himself. He stays for the same reason abused women stay with their alchoholic rat bastard husbands.
Darth
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'If a man is willing to die, he can be killed'
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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I don`t know,but I wish he wouldn`t.. http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/kao/otn/imu2.gif
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It's simple tips like these
That keep you safe from injuries
The surgeon general should do his part:
Warning, beware, be careful - Fragile Heart
Words By Jewel(EDA)
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It's hard for me to resent Katchoo because David always comes back. It's not like all she ever does is abuse David. There's a lot to like about Katchoo, too. But whenever she pushes him away, he forgives. He makes a choice. The fact that he chooses to come back makes him hard for me to feel sorry for.
And basically, he does it because he's in love. I've known tons of people like that, who can't give up hope on someone. It's just their way.
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"They mostly come out at night. Mostly." --Newt, Aliens
"I can crack all your ribs, but I can't break your heart." --Jill Sobule
"Take it easy, but take it." --Woody Guthrie
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my 2 cents:
personally i think katchoo is a bit much in her abuse of david and francince. i dont like how she likes to play the hurt martyr card all the time as a kind of emotional blackmail on 2 people who are very very fond of her.
I think David and Francine overlook her crazy anger and guilt inducing trips because they know how much she has been through.
BUT i think at some point, Kat has got to really let go of the past. Someone that came from so much darkness in her life has the right to be angry and crazy but they also have the right to turn back from that and move on.
I dont think its admirable when Kat declares she wont lie with sheep. Its her still holding onto a hatred of men. She shows signs of wanting to leave that all behind, to forgive everything. I dont think she loves either david or francine truly YET simply because she has not come to realise what true love is. All 3 characters havent come close to even knowing what it means to love each other as yet.
i do think people should stop overlooking the fact that this strong, loyal, gutsy girl is also capable of some horrible emotional manipulations. If David is no angel, neither is she by a stretch. What makes her so right and he so wrong? Why do Katchoo lovers give her so much and refuse to do the same for David?
now i dont hate her. she's a character in a comic book. i dont invest the same kind of level of devotion in love /hate to people who dont exist as i do to flesh and blood people.
but i can see clearly why the original poster is peeved when people "let" kat get away with her psychotic room bashing, waffling and insults. like it or not, its a reflection of what we value. and i think he/she does not like the seeming allowance of others to close an eye to one form of abuse while railing on another.
another thing: why would david as a christian give himself fully to someone who may not love him back or deserve him?
because if he is as faithful a christian as god has called him to be, then he would never "grow a spine" and tell her to fuck off. He would endure in his love and wait in patience. and remember that every life is precious and to be loved above your own. it matters little if kat is his love of his life or a friend in need. christians are called to put "their neighbour" above themselves along with god. Little else matters.
apologies for long ramble. but thoughts were triggered. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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I am reminded of an exchange between the main characters and the sidekick character in the movie BASEketball:
Reimer-'Yeah, but you're a little b!tch'
Squeek-'I am not a little b!tch!'
Coop-'Yeah, but you're a piece of sh!t'
Squeek-'D@mn it, I swear, if you guys rip on me 13 or 14 more times, I'm outta here'
Coop-'Yeah, whatever...'
Just kinda reminds me of David..
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'If a man is willing to die, he can be killed'
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darth Fett:
I am reminded of an exchange between the main characters and the sidekick character in the movie BASEketball:
Reimer-'Yeah, but you're a little b!tch'
Squeek-'I am not a little b!tch!'
Coop-'Yeah, but you're a piece of sh!t'
Squeek-'D@mn it, I swear, if you guys rip on me 13 or 14 more times, I'm outta here'
Coop-'Yeah, whatever...'
Just kinda reminds me of David..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Anyone who uses BASEketball to clarify meaning is a god.
You're sister going out with SQUEEK!
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Any way we wish to slice and dice this topic, I am reminded of something. This comic and the reason I love it so much is because it is a reflection in some ways of real life. Everyone knows a David or a Francine or a Katchoo. I believe that Terry's portrayal of these three main characters is very realistic. They're human beings (well, on paper anyway) and have very human reactions and motives and hangups and good points and bad points. If all of these characters were "perfect" we would not love or dislike them near so much. That we can all get so passionate over the "lives" of these characters is another tribue to Terry's master storytelling.
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if the world is going nuts, who has the nutcracker?
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nat20:
Anyone who uses BASEketball to clarify meaning is a god.
You're sister going out with SQUEEK!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Steeeve Perry!
Steeeve Perry!
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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The whole "Why does David Stay" topic seems to be a moot point. Having a David-like persona myself, and my own "Katchoo" in my life, I throughly understand his reasons. Love is never a simple thing, ladies and gents. Nonetheless, David does indeed love Katchoo, regardless of the chances between them, and he'll stand by her side no matter what and he'll always be there for her regardless of if she wants him to be or not.
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'Nuff Said.
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Maybe David thinks, at least on some subconscious level, that he deserves the abuse he's getting. Remember, he supposedly did a lot of Really Nasty Things earlier in his life, and he's now doing penance for them. He may consider this God's way of punishing him, or at least testing him. And he thinks that if he "keeps the faith" long enough, like Job, he'll eventually be rewarded. Rotsa ruck, pal. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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J. Kevin Carrier
Fantasy Theater: http://members.aol.com/jkcarrier/fantasy.htm
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Ooh, ooh finally have thought of something useful to say on this topic.
I've just finished a complete re-read and I have to say sometimes I like David (I still cry at the end of issue 40) and sometimes I think he's just being an annoying dork.
So maybe thats how it is with him and Katchoo. Yes David is generally a good guy and can be supportive when needed but then he has these moments where he suddenly seems really needy and clingy and thats when he gets annoying.
Its like I have had friends who are really nice people and have supported me during dark times. But then I recovered and was my old leader type self able to move forward and found that the same people had reverted back to clingy followers which I found annoying as I had made new choices and decisions following the dark times moving in new directions and they were just the same.
I still like them just sometimes I find them too much a part of the old me I left behind.
Does that make any sense at all?
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Talent just defines what you do, it doesn't define what you are. Deep down, I mean. When you know what you are, you can do anything. - Rincewind the Wizzard, Discworld.
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well!-Joe Ancis
Out of my mind...back in 5 minutes
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Why does David stay?
Probably because he recognizes a soul that is as beaten and damanged as his. And he feels at home. We tend to forget that David was a part of Darcy's hell for longer than Katchoo was, this boy is a hurt puppy.
Why does David get kicked around on the boards?
Because of "As long as it is your hands that hitting me..." David told us he was Katchoo's doormat a long time ago.
Katchoo is not my ideal of a role model, heck, none of these characters are. But they are realistically portrayed.
I have know a Katchoo in my life, we no longer talk.
I know several Francines in life. Egads, they drive me nuts. How many times can you watch someone you care for, totaling screw up their life?
I have been David at points in my life. I got some self-esteem and moved on.
All three characters are flawed. Katchoo abuses people. Francine waffles. David clings.
But the reality of relationships is they take at least two people to work. Nomatter what the relationship, one of those two people is not without blame.
Is it David's fault he hangs around even though Katchoo doesn't treat him as he feel he deserves? Yup. We are all responsible for the choices we make, period. Is Katchoo responsible? Yup, to some degree, she does lead him on and send him mixed messages. "I love you. Go away." That is a crude breakdown of a mixed message. Katchoo is more complicated than that. Can David say Katchoo's love for Francine, lack of "in love" for him comes as a surprise. Uh, nope. He has plenty of clues. Just as Katchoo has had plenty of clues that Francine wasn't ready for a relationship with and Katchoo stomped off.
David stays because he chooses to stay. Everytime he gets close to a situation where he would have to decide to leave he backs down and makes up with Katchoo. One more step in that conversation on the beach and David would have had to make a big decision. But he choose to diffuse his anger, before the point of no return.
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Selah
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Jumping off on JKCarrier's point, I'll go one step further: David recognizes himself in Katchoo. Someone who has had such hardships and pain and seen the ugliness in himself and feels "saved". He is projecting this onto Katchoo. I have done it myself. I want to share in my own rejuvenation. I want to show someone I love that there is hope. I guess it's a variation on "I was lost but now I'm found." David feels that his own patience and compassion and genuine love can save Katchoo from herself...
Ultimately, only Katchoo can save herself. When someone as supportive as David sticks by you when you are horrible to them, you can find the part of yourself that appreciates it. Katchoo has shown a bit of it (maybe all she's capable of at this point), but for David, when Katchoo shows that soft side of herself he knows she may come around. I wager it is this hope (however unrealistic) along with just plain being in love with her that keeps David trying. Having a huge crush on her myself (I KNOW she's just a comic book character!) I admire what David's attempting -- even if it annoys me.
That said, I'm still pulling for Version One and a happy ending for the heart of the story which is Katchoo & Francine.
Josh
from Brooklyn
(Terry Moore signed my copy of TPB #1!!!)
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Why does David stay? Being who I am, I can't honestly say I've asked myself that question. However I've seen it addressed time and time again in SiP's letters column. Like some people (I'd like to say most, but most responses to David's lingering persona in the letter col.s are negative in position), I understand why. Perhaps more than what I would fully like to admitt.
There is a "Katchoo" in my life for as long as I care to remember. She's had rough spots in her life, times of confusion and great loss. I've done whatever I could do for her and then some. Just by being there: a shoulder to cry on, a strength to talk to, and an open opinion when needed. To what end to what extent... there isn't one. To paraphrase Kevin Smith, it was because of who she is and what she means to me. In the end that's all that matters. Though she's a source of heartache in my life, I couldn't imagine life without her. Yes, I won't lie, I , still to this very day, love her and I know nothing could ever possibly happen between her and I , I'll always be there for her whenever she needs me. I think she knows that, and hopefully she understands why. But it's weird how she can tell me she loves me and how it cuts me just as deeply as any wound ever could.
I believe this how David feels. Granted he has no real reason to stay, nothing to gain but everything to lose, but he must. I can understand that, but it's not the easiest thing to explain or bring to words. Few emotions ever are. Hopefully, some of you (once again I hope most) get the gist of this.
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'Nuff Said.
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Hey VLAD!
*hugs* and Oreos and M&Ms.
Welcome to the SIP board.
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Selah
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*passes around some Dom Perignon and truffles*
I know EXACTLY where David is coming from, I was in a relationship like that about 7 years ago, it lasted 3 years and it was wonderful and horrible at the same time. I actually had NO chance of having a relationship with this person but I kept trying and trying, to no avail.
Soon I discovered, just be a friend, and live your life. Things went very well after that.
So yeah, I know what David feels, and I hope he takes the best direction for him.
Hugs..
Veronica
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I originally posted this 'defense of David' under the "#44 Spoilers" topic, but it belongs here.
*Mara passes out chocolate chip oatmeal cookies (miraculously Cafiene free so that Tyle can join in :o))*
Does anyone have milk? :o)
Thanks for reading and Blessings to all.
-Mara
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There have been many moments where David has at least been given real hope that Kat loves him. Aside from her declaration of love in the hospital, Kat also has many cosy and deep honest loving moments with him.
1) confession of her s-dads rape
2)secrets- sharing on the beach in #33
3)her kissing him on more than one ocasion
4)When Francie asks "What are you doing with him?" Kat answers "What I should be doing with you" While this definitely points to her preference for Francie--It also* indicates that she is romantically toying with David. Unless, she only said this to make Fran jealous and never touched D-boy, but Kat usually means what she says and often means what she does.
5)There is also the moment a few issues ago when Kat drags D-boy into the bedroom to do what? and Casey interrupts them with her strip-tease.
... and the list goes on... but I'd have to go through issues one page at a time to find them all.
I disagree with the people who claim that Katchoo has been totally up front with David about only liking women. Her behavior says otherwise. To those who say David should know anyway--While I agree that to we lucky readers who get to see almost everything, it is obvious that Kat has and *probably will always love Francine--she has also shown a spark for David.
He is not naive, hopeless or foolish...He loves her beyond his own life and he wants to 'rescue' her. That is why he stays.
I am not either a David fanatic or a David hater...all I can say is that he has been an incredible friend and support for both Fran and Kat and I don't think he is stupid or unnecessary to the story.
As for Francie--part of her loves Katchoo in all ways, but she has been straight for a long time. And though 'switching teams' may seem common its not always easy. I have fallen in love with both a woman (in my teens) and with a man (in my 20s) and love is very* complicated thing. It took me a long time (about 6 yrs) and many 'visions of the future' to figure out that I am more attracted to men than women...so Francie (and SiP) taking 6 yrs to decide and David hoping that Kat may change *both make sense.
thats my two bits...thanks for reading.
Peace,
Mara
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P.S. Smile Jesus (a.k.a. God a Higher Benevolent Being) Loves You!
Converted by Telydras
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November 28th?!?! That's the last post... come on people. I know, I know, it's been awhile for me too, so I really don't have room to talk. With that thought, cue the music and on with the show...
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Over winter break I've had a lot of time to think about this topic and how it applies to my own life. During vacation, I was asked by my "Sis" (I've known this girl for ten years, and despite the fact there is no biological connection between her and I, the term feels very appropriate)why I happen to remain a part of a certain young lady's life, despite the shit and hell she puts me through on a daily basis (emotionally and physically, of which I'm all too aware). All break I had to ponder this, muddling it about in my mind. While at it I re-read my collection of SIP back issues and paperbacks to only discover why I fell in love with the series to begin with.
It seems to me that by asking "Why does David stay?" is like asking myself,"Why do I stay?" I can relate to David, and Katchoo in personality and appearances alone conjures images of the woman in my life that plays the same role Kat has with David, with me. That's what made me fall head over heels for the series when I read it while working a "I-need-the-money-so-I'm-working-at-at-a-friend's-comic-shop-and-I-hate-it" job (don't get me wrong I like comics and all things related but some fan-boys and girls can get almost psychologically and mentally distrubed when a shipment is late or an isue is missing in their collections of craptastic mainstream comics...once again no offense if this applies to anyone).
It seems I'm dodging the question(s) at hand, aren't I? So why does David stay? For that matter, and almost word for word the same reasons, why do I(Just change everything in reference to Dave to personalize it for myself, and everything involving Kat to involve the woman in my life)? Well I believe David stays first and foremost, because of what he had to go through himself. The gangs, the killing, and his demented sister Darcy(not quite me, but I've had a dark past too). Not to mention going through all that alone, survivng it, and after trying to prove that you're still a worthwhile human being to yourself let alone anyone else. Katchoo has been through hell and back, too, time and time again, and in away David can relate. Perhaps the personal experiences aren't exactly the same, but to some degree he understands what she's going through and what she'll eventually have to face. He most likely had to do this himself, and once again alone. David doesn't want Katchoo to have to face it like that, though in some instances she'll probably have to but if she needs to at least she can take take comfort in knowing David is there. That alone is worthwhile, despite the emotional pain and torture he'll have to endure for and mostly because of her. That's a true friend, and it's what you do if you love someone unconditionally.
Secondly, David has the oppertunity to see a side of her few people ever do. A side worth redemming, worth fighting for, let alone dying for. It's a small reason, but it's worthwhile despite being short and sweet (like me... lol).
Finally (no you'll still hear from me on this issue time and time again), David loves her. Regardless if she loves him or not, what she does or doesn't, it's a moot point. He always will. If anyone thinks love is all hearts, flowers, and things always working out "just-so", then it's time for a wake up call. It's never easy, and there is always a lot of pain, despite it's good points.
I guess that all that needs to be said about that ( Ihope you read this Sis, I tried to explain this all to you hopefully this comes off better but I think it probably won't. Just please try to understand or at least just except it). I hope this made sense I look forward to you guys responses.
Kurt.
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'Nuff Said.
