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OK, guys - on a more serious note -
How many of u have this vid/DVD/VCD [Modern Drummer Festival 2000]?! What r your feel'gs on it...
I've just listened to it again 4 prob. about the 7th time or so, & I'm tellin u guys that Vinnie [w/ Karizma] is absolutely KILLIN-SMOKIN on this 1 - man, i don't think any1 on the planet can play like that !@#$%&* guy!![affectionately, of course [img]wink.gif[/img] ] The way he phrases, his technique, his unbelievable improvisational ability, the raw power, the 'freshness'/never-end'g fountain of ideas [never repeats, & rarely 'cliches' himself, except of course within the boundaries of himself, stylistically - seemingly, the only exception being that I've heard him re-invent some Tony lix] - SHolmes, on his HOD page, also similarly describes Weckl in this way AW, & rightly so - MAN!! This is 1 guy who continuously astonishes me. I've been listen'g to him since '84, & his play'g just never seems to grow old; never ceases to amaze...wooooo...He is 1BMJ!!! [see the thread on "Abbreviations...] - [BTW & FTR: I'm NOT tryin to start another "VC Vs. All Comers" thread...!] **
The 3 Karizma tunes on there [& they're long renditions!] -
Toast For Eli
I'm Tweeked/Attack of the 20 Lb. Pizza
E Minor Shuffle
UN-FREEKIN-BELIEVABLE!!
If u r a VC fan & u don't have this 1, GET IT, & FAST!!!
In the words of another poster in the past [after hear'g/see'g Bill Stewart]: "I'm gonna go burn my drumkit" [because i just saw VC burnin his!!]
[PS - El Negro & Band smoke on there AW; & Bill Ward gruvs his butt off, too]
[** - the only exception being PL, of course [img]wink.gif[/img] - i knew i'd getcha goin, PL [img]tongue.gif[/img] ....]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 21, 2002 12:59 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
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The Karizma performance on the MD 2000 concert is amazing. It's so cool to see I'm Tweaked performed live. It's interesting how his playing changes on this song once he gets the drum levels up in the monitor mix (drum amp anyone?). I've been following Vinnie since '85 and it's impressive the way this guy keeps coming up with those great musical ideas and rock solid time.
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Yeah - any drumstick/kit Vinnie touches turns to white-hot gold....
Another BAD-Mamma-Jamma is that mp3 of him play'g w/ Alan Pasqua that Steve [Holmes] so graciously has "posted" in the "VC sect'n" of his HOD site...absolutely STOOPID soloing on that 1, a' la' Vinnie....
& 1 more last thought -
DONATI is [also] ABSOLUTELY KILLIN / SMOKIN / SMOLDERIN on the Mod Drumr Fest '97 vid - some really SCARY shtuff on there, he's on Vinnie's heels conceptually, & WAY better than most [if not ALL] on double-kix [includ'g Vinnie!!];
also, Horacio H ["El Negro"] w/ Patitucci...MORE stoopidity goin on there, aw....
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i have the video with vinnie and karizma. i bought it when it first came out very exited to see it becuase the only stuff i had seen of vinnie before was the buddy memorial concert which was awesome. however i was dissapointed. sure theres no doubt hes an amazing player but on this he has to beat the shit out of the drums cause hes got tiny sizes and thick heads (and they sound awful too) and he looks uncomfortable. hes soooo busy and over the top......i do anjoy watching it occasionally because he does do some nice things on there.......such as the two fills on "im tweaked" that are next to each other (roll round the toms backwards and the fill between left hand and bass drum) and the accompanyment to the bass solo is very very good!!!
however weckl is more tasteful and forgiving to the music and doesnt even break out a sweat......vinnie is dying!!!
(by the way has anyone got the modern drummer festival weekend 1998....sunday with dave weckl......i cant find it.....is it any good?
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hmmm.... I have to agree it's not one of my favorite Vinnie performances but not for any of the reasons you mentioned. [img]wink.gif[/img]
I actually like the drum sound, at least the toms and cymbals. The snare doesn't do much for me but it doesn't bother me at all. Also, ambassadors are not really thick. They're the same heads Weckl usually uses nowadays. (or clear emperors)
In any case, I don't think he overplays. For Vinnie that's actually holding back believe it or not! [img]eek.gif[/img]
There's a video floating around the bootleg circuit of Vinnie with Karizma in Europe that is a much better representation of Vinnie with Karizma. I know for a fact Vinnie didn't want to be taped at the MD festival and I would not be surprised if that affected his performance. (I could see how he might not be that inspired given he's so against being on video)
anyway, just another opinion.
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Wow...it's funny, i've never even paid attention to the drum sounds - i was too busy tryin to 'hear' all of the unbelievable phrasing going by! [img]eek.gif[/img]
& DDF's right - it's a li'l 'tame'[?!] compared to some of the other Vinnie stuff [img]wink.gif[/img] ["Vinnie Lite," any1?!] - but "that don't mean there ain't some SERIOUS smokin' goin on in those 3 tunes" on there - he smokes on EVERY 1 a' those suckers...
AFA sweating, well, he's always done that - "he's a 'sweater'," - it's a 'high metabolism' thing. I'd be sweatin too if i played like that...those 'stage lights' can get pretty 'warm'...i don't think he looks THAT uncomf, tho...
"Busy & over-the-top" - it's a Drum Fest, 4 cryin out loud [img]wink.gif[/img] ...
However, he does appear to be "beat'g the drums" @ certain points throughout, & mainly in the begin'g of the 1st song ['Toast 4 Eli'][maybe LP's gettin a "wrong 1st impression"!] - but a lot of the stuff he plays on there - he's not beat'g the tar out of, because it'd be physically impossible to pull off that stuff technique-wise if he was...
AFA the "MDF WkEnd '98, Sunday" w/ the DW Band, I have the VHS & it's great, of course. He does 3 or 4 tunes on there, 2 of which r live versions of 'Access Denied' [off of 'Rhythm of the Soul'], & 'Tower '99' ['Tower of Inspiration 2,' off 'Synergy']. Both r BURNING. The other 2 titles escape me right now. As i recall, all r great.
JoJo Mayer is on there too, he's got some kewl shtuff goin on; EBayers, too; cool gruvin mod-country stuff AW....
Also have 'MDFWE'98-Sat.' w/ WILL KENNEDY & 2/3rds of the YELLOWJACKETS [Ferrante & Haslip] - KILLER!!! Also w/ Rod Morg. & Jordan Rudess - hip AW! & JEFF HAMILTON's on there - a VERY KILLER, & VERY MUSICAL, underrated jazz-monster [my old drum teacher knows him & hipped me to him & Joey Barron back in the 80's - I think he just finished play'g some dates out there in LA - i wouldve gone]...
I lucked out & bought both these vids @ Mars Music bankruptcy close-out 4 only $10 bucks apiece - even tho i'd rather have 'em on DVD; but @ that price, i couldnt argue....
Derek - is that Karizma boot "Live @ the Club Fabrik, Hamburg, Germany?" If it is, I have it... [img]wink.gif[/img] It sounds like much if not all of it was recorded directly thru the board w/ 'factory reverb' going [exactly like '5 Storks' sounds off of SteveH's HOD site - except that '5 Storks' isn't on my copy of 'Fabrik'....
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 19, 2002 07:55 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
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Vinnies drum sounds on the MD 2000 performance?
I thought the drum(tom)sounds were bad until I hooked a small sub woofer to my TV system. Then the low end popped out and the toms sound great!
The same thing was true for the Zildjian Days tape with Vinnie.
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I've heard the audio one you're referring to Fuse. I'm referring to a VIDEO of them. There was a brief clip of it on Landau's old site. I'm sure someone here can hook you up with it.
the 5 storks was done with a stereo mic onto minidisc by a friend of mine.
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Duh - my bad [img]confused.gif[/img] - [too many coals in the fire/stuff goin on] - u DID 'say' that [img]eek.gif[/img] ...
- that's even better yet [vid]...
For a boot, that '5 Storks' is killer. Double-duh: i'd 4gotten - that's from a show in LA [not Germany] - minidisc w/ stereo mic is the way to go - thanx go to u & your friend [awa SteveH 4 post'g it]...VC plays some of his killer classic metric-modulation on there....
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 19, 2002 09:14 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
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weckl's MD '98 video doesn't compare with vinnie's MD 2000 video. i don't know why you keep saying vinnie over plays. and who says playing a lot of notes is bad? if you can do it, do it. i've seen vinnie and dave tons of times all over the country and trust me, they both play a ton of notes. dave does it his way, vinnie does it his. i have the drum solo section on i'm tweeked as a mpg. if anyone wants it let me know. plus i have the clip of the entire trio solo on the brms video.
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ok.....u guys(and the rest of th figgin drum world) just arent going to give in! never mind.
let me put it another way......vinnie on the MDF 2000 perhaps didnt overplay but he seems to play big fills too often and the ones he plays sometimes dont have anything to do with the tune???? he does this alot on the unreel album by randy waldman.
however the stuff on mike sterns new album "voices"....vinnie plays beautiful....tasteful musical and almost perfect!!! why cant he do that more.....ok Karizma is supposed to be busy as is the dave weckl band(its pretty much just a platform for dave to blow off) but if u look at dennis (who is a master at this) he just lays down a fat fat groove that just makes u laugh and he wont play anything for ages and then suddenly he lets loose this explosive fill that makes u jump out of ur seat..........(check out "uncle moe's space ranch). if a fill is done more tastefuly and at the right time and less often it has far more effect......this doesnt just apply to groove drummers......a drummer is a drummer!!!
ok weckl sure does play a lot of notes......when i saw him with mike stern and victor wooten i did think he played too many notes......but what he plays doesnt interupt the flow of notes.
on the steve smith dvd he looks like he is trying too hard and like 4 bars before the next section in the song he does a massive 4 bar fill that has no relation and while uve got baron browne (who is such a groovy bass player) is still groovin'......NO NO NO!!!!
why can vinnie play more like he did on the mike stern album!!!!!! and because for th most part he played so little it means that on a couple of tracks he did go over the top it wouldnt matter!!!
has anyone seen lionel cordew with mike stern??? what did u think?
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also....does anyone have "The Zone" by dave weckl??? is it any good? worth buying? r the band sections good? apparantly they play "angels flight" but that aint on his albums???
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I thought Vinnie was holding back a bit on the MD2000 video. Even at that, he was still awesome. Bought the MD2K Sunday tape to see Vinnie, but I was most blown away by Akira Jimbo!
Shed -- I'd like to hear that trio mpg. I have the BRM tape, and that's my fave part. Please email me about a trade: [email protected]. Thanx man!
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geeze it sucks being a drummer, it doesn't matter what you do, someone always has an opinion of how to do things better.
as far as the drum sounds of anyone on any of the festival or buddy memorial videos. i would venture to say that any of the drummers playing have little or nothing to do with the tone and sound of their drums except how they play them.
they are not the live sound engineer, they are not the mix engineer and are not present during mixdown. as well most of them don't set up or tune their drums.
they all have cartage and techs.
what they are good at is playing the snot out of them
for that i'm gratefull
chris perra
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Chris they do have some input on their drum sound its not all down to the engineer.
What people are expressing here chris, is their opinion on a product which they brought with their own hard earned money, just as you are.
Personally, I found the 2000DVD to be dissapointing or perhaps my expectations were too high before i saw it.
I thought that it would be a bit more Imformative than it was, considering the available space on a dvd.
I found the Tony Medirous part and, that little guy to be pointless. Tony looked like he was packing shelves in walmarts..... just exercising because he can. The little fella michael? Yeah he has facility but whats the point in wasting video time on these guys? I dont mean this to be disrespectful but I wanted some Meat for my money!
I have seen Akira in clinic and theres a world of difference when you see him live, Its awesome. But I enjoyed the performance though.
I got More from the Billy wards part which was informative AND musical and, was impressed by Hilary jones who actually played Rhyhmically and musically compared to medirous and the little fella.
dave lombardo *yawn*
Don Brewer ok
Horatio.AWESOME....i love that guy he $hits music!
Paul Leim Ok but I felt his explanation of the nashville system was not explained enough. I guess thats what premature ejac is like! It was over before he started!
Vinnie? if vinnie was anymore retrained he would have been static. The thing i liked though was, its as if he WASN'T showing off for the cameras and, approached it musically not technically (my opinion).
It was great to see Pizza being played live... was it not? Infact, just seeing vinny on film is great, I even noticed he had the new DW pedals from the camera view! Cool.
Not enough of the vinmeister as far as i was concerned on that product.
I still came away learning something from it though, which is what i bought it for.
I hope that video Derek referred to is the Document gig because that album is the biz. We'll have to wait and see.
As this was the first time i have seen vinnie apart from a sting documentary i noticed how stiff he looks when playing compared to weckl, who flows. Neither are a better player than the other but its good to see anything as near as live as you can so, money well spent.
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Whoever has this VC vid, i would be absolutely MORE than willing to arrange a trade or whatever!!.... [img]cool.gif[/img]
PS - i dont care HOW 'stiff Vinnie looks' - he can still play/scare 99% of most others right outta their Tommy Hilfiger boxers/Michael Jordan-Hanes/Fruit of the Looms....
He makes 99% of the other guys out there [my humble self included, not that i COMPLETELY suck or anything!! - but that's ANOTHER matter of opinion!! [img]wink.gif[/img] ] look like pozer-creampuffs [altho I'm not NECESSARILY talkin about the DWs/VDs/DCs/RGs/GNs of this world....] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Just my humb opin [i cant help it if it's on the side of what's RIGHT.... [img]wink.gif[/img] ]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 21, 2002 05:29 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
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I should explain what i mean by vinnie being stiff.
Watching weckl on video/dvd whatever, i cant feel or see when he intends to throw in a 16th or 32nd. Its almost like a martial art movie, its effortlessly smooth, BANG... done.
Watching vinnie, was like, I could grab his stix and help him execute it.
Like watching something in slow motion, You could see him tense up slightly before he executed.
Maybe i mean, "anticipate" whats coming?
And No, I am not on medication! (well not yet anyway... am i doctor) [img]smile.gif[/img]
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What video are you talking about D?
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The one of him with Karizma in Europe from late 2001. I figured you'd have heard about it since you seem to be current on what's out there in the boot scene. There used to be a clip on Landau's old site.
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There are a few videos from those shows, I have 1. Those were some serious playing. If you have ever heard the boots from thos eshows then you know what I mean.
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nicely put Me2.
The video is from the tour in Europe a year after Document. Vinnie plays his ass off on it though. evern moreso than Document I'd say. The arrangement of I'm Tweaked is pretty ridiculous. (Vinnie plays straight over the loop in this arrangement and lets the loop do the displacement)
Maybe Randy has heard of this or seen it? I would ask him.
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to me2
maybe you should write to the organisers of the md 2002, or 2003 festival and put in a request form for what you want to hear from each drummer. that way you will get your moneys worth.
chris perra
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LOL @ CP,
didn't wanna reply, but boy that was phunnie...
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor=""><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by chris perra:
to me2
maybe you should write to the organisers of the md 2002, or 2003 festival and put in a request form for what you want to hear from each drummer. that way you will get your moneys worth.
chris perra</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good idea chris i might just do that. Perhaps we could have an anti-badmouthing drummers chapter on the said dvd?
First person to keep a clean sheet at the end of the yr gets a florence nightingale dress.
Guess were all out then! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
erm....My post clearly says..I got my moneys worth. Doh!
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 22, 2002 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Me2 ]</font>
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BOYZ! BOYZ! [img]smile.gif[/img]
That was some darn funny 'dialogue', tho [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Nothin like a good, flamin laff!!
Ummmm...it's kinda funny [about the "VC looks stiff" thing, again!] - funny how the eyes will play trix on us, 'cuz...when I listen to his playin, i don't "see stiff" at all [img]wink.gif[/img] ....
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needs more meat though... eh?
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Money well spent but hey, would you complain if ya got more vinnie than the shelf stacker?
Right, wheres the vegetables section? [img]wink.gif[/img]
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i give up me2
you are right,
i am wrong.
that is all.
you've shown me the way
maybe we can design a scorecard so we can all be clear on how much everyone sucks.
presentation
tuning
time
attire
interpretation
colour of drums
too many toms
too few toms
too many fills
too few fills
too easy to figure out where beat one is
cymbals not shiny enough
hardware too bulky
carpet has too plain as design on it
what do ya think?
chris perra
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Fuse... after my convo with chris i now run the dvd at its normal playback speed.
Vinnie looks alot more fluid than at the Slow motion playback speed that i've been watching it at for the last month but, i kinda feel short changed and casseroled (not enough meat) that, the dvd is over in a couple of hrs instead of the normal 8hrs i'm used to getting out of it.
Oh well, i mustn't grumble.... [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]
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Hey everyone!
I think Vinnie's playing on the MD2000 Video is excelent. What matters is what YOU like and what YOU get from the video ie. a general statement such as "he is over playing" or "Its not choppy enough" is only valid to a degree of just stating YOUR opinion. What criteria do we use to rate drummers performances? did they score enough points? who made the rules of the game? Wheres the music cops?
The important thing is how great the music is as a whole NOT just the drumming. Ie.look at landou's creative solowing and the interaction of dynamics and all of their abilites to play time perfectly. Can you play 16th note subdivisions (without reading) in time to a sequencer and have it recorded for an audience of thousands.
Also when considering whether the "Choppy" tracks were held back or not, just look at what i think is behind the playlist included:
1.Toast for elli- previously unrecorded .i.e something fresh or perhaps Vinnie thaught it a great take.
2.Im tweeked- markets his solo record.
3.E-minor shuffle- markets document.
Just an opinion,
Jesse
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Jes, Jess - JES!! [Yes!] [img]wink.gif[/img]
The bottom line, I guess, is that music is still "objective," at best.
Oh, & Me2 - your last post - good one - [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 24, 2002 02:48 AM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
