Pair Altec 411 8A Woofers Speakers | eBay
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it would be interesting to see how it pans out.
ot; how accurate do you think that speaker chart is?
Well, I wrote a fairly informative post, but hostboard saw fit to delete it, so the short answer is that it's best overall not to use it.
GM
Can you elaborate on this please... I never heard of Hostboard purposely deleting posts before.. :confused2:Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
Thats a job for the moderator not Hostboard and this is the first I have seen this thread..So it wasn't me.. I need details so I can investigate this.
When I clicked to post it, I got the 'hostboard busy' message, so clicked the return arrow and the message was gone...........
GM
I have learned to select everything, right click, and save everything before hitting the post button.
Like Volvo says.....Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
Yup I have encountered that myself many times and it is very frustrating when that happens.. The board is supposed to have an (auto-saved) feature that somehow doesn't work with the server too busy message.Whenever you write a lengthy post I recommend you highlight it and copy before hitting that post it radio button.So you can save the post if it happens again..Then you can just post it into notepad or something and save it for later and then post when the server works again.It seems to me to be ridiculous to have to do that and Hostboard is the only place I have ever encountered this problem.
Steven tells me he upgrades the servers all the time but it keeps happening time and time again with the servers being overloaded.:confused:
Those were my 411's. I am using the proceeds of the sale towards having a set of 421-8H's re-coned as 416's by GPA. I am attempting to morph my Santiago's into Model 19's.
I will need to enlarge the opening in the motor board slightly as these two speakers are different diameters. I will either go with the GPA crossovers or attempt to fabricate my own.
Any assistance on porting would be appreciated.
i almost bid. but i have a pair i got from AB. the next project after my little boat is painted, is to tune a pair of cabs as low as i get with them.
i can't believe they went for 170. 2 pairs of those would have made a decent sub. :D
I normally do whenever I post and recommend it when appropriate, but I'm always in a hurry these days with little time for the forums, email, etc., and forgot to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
GM
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These are the same size as the 846 Valencia, so somewhat smaller than the M19 with its simple reflex vent, ergo use the 846's dual 4” i.d. x 6” long pipe vents if you want Altec's 'West Coast Sound'; otherwise experiment with a bit longer vents for a more 'accurate'/'dry' presentation and/or will be corner loaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by TubesNhorns
GM
But your pair are pristine as they have just been reconed by Bill at GPA... Yours are ready for another 15-20 years.. :cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-G
yes they are and yes they will. and i have place for them. :) but two more would have been twice the power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
Agreed ! That's why i'm a big fan of dual woofers..If you have the room go dual woofers...IMHO I think they just sound better...Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-G
i want to try two in each sealed box. a guy named stan told how he placed the woofers rim to rim to aid coupling. like a jbl 4842 does. i wonder if it would make any difference?
Depends on how high/steep you XO them. For best coupling they need to be within a 1/4 WL, so with a 16" c-t-c the upper limit is ~13560/4/16 = ~212 Hz, but our hearing is such that up to 1 WL apart is acceptable, so what is normally used for MTMs or up to ~848 Hz, though this high it would normally be at least the -6 dB point and preferably -12 dB.
GM
I will need to read that another couple timesQuote:
Originally Posted by GM
Yeah, it's a bit much to 'swallow' and really needs a drawing.
GM
yep, GM reminds me of several collage professors I had that would only offer enough information to pick your interest and make you research your own questions to find your own answers. :( :) :)
Yet another thread that shows why I love this forum. Warts and all.
Decided to go with the flared ports (4" x 6"). Turns out, they wouldn't fit in the space reserved for the ports, go figure:rolleyes:
Removed the 811 horn and made a new motor board that retrofits into the horn's space. I'll put the ports where the horn was.
I will build a separate cabinet for the 811's that can sit on top of the 'bass bin'. I already have a set of 511 horns mounted this way and now I can swap/interchange the 811's with the 511's much easier.
My 821-8H's are at GPA being reconed as 416's. Think I will initially bi-amp using a Rane 2-way but am considering the GPA Model 19 crossover.
I am curious to see what type of gains I will see in efficiency over the original Santiago configuration.
FWIW, flared vents of the same length, base diameter as an un-flared one will be acoustically shorter, so will tune it a bit higher, sometimes enough to be audible. Also, the polar, roll off patterns of the 511, 811 are different, so the M19's XO may not work well with the 511 plus the bass bin ideally needs to be inverted to get the woofer closer to the horn regardless.
GM
GM, I thought that might be the case with the flares on the tuning and figured you'd set me straight.
From available graphs, I can calculate the required port area in square inches. However, calculating the depth of the port remains a mystery. How do you do it?
I calculate the internal cabinet volume at 6.2 ft^2 (woofer only, no horn or CD). With a resonance frequency of 25 Hz on the 416-8A, port area appears to be 30 in^2. I can fabricate a second 'port board' as these bolt into the cabinet in-lieu of the horn. I will make a rectangular port that can be 'shimmed' to change the port area.
I was thinking of starting with a 7.5" x 4" port. Does the aspect ratio (W:H) of the port have any influence? Would a wider shorter port make a difference? Would the depth of the port be the same in any instance?
I will invert the bins to place the woofer closer to the horn. Thanks for the advice.
This looks familiar, didn't I already answer this on another thread/forum?
GM
packages arrived from Bill at GPA. Literature indicates that the 411 and 421 share the same bolt configuration. Mine are the Series II and are different. Cork gasket on outer side indicates mounting behind the motor board.
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So, the 411's sold cheap. Also sold a set of 511 crossovers and used the proceeds to upgrade the 421's to 416 spec. Inverted the Santiagos and installed new risers. Installed the horns on top. Left room in the new horn enclosure to go to a larger CD as previously the 806's were right against the Santiago backside.
Too heavy to move into the garage so the final fitment and refinish were done in the living room. Wired to bi-amp. Almost ready to fire them up (finally).
Vintage Altec Lansing 416 8c Low Frequency Loudspeaker Woofer | eBay
this loooks like a 416 reconed 421. yea or nay?
Looks like a flat magnet(circa EV junk) version 416-8C to me, black spider and all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-G
+1 Look familiar? Electrovoice Model 815 9997 15" Speaker Fresh Recone | eBay
GM
the back looks just like the 421s i have without the label. that speaker has vents front and back.
Do a google image search for 416-8C. You'll see a lot of examples where the foil cal has been pushed into the vent void.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil-G
On at least the early runs there would be a metal plate glued to the front of the pole piece blocking the vent passage to the rear. You'll find fellas here who encountered them when they fell off creating some fairly unpleasant sounds.
While quite similar, i'm not sure they are the same magnet structure as the 421, i think there is a difference in gap/plate depth. There are fellas here who know better than me, hopefully one of them can explain.
The "good" 416-8C's will have a slightly rounded, and bolted magnet structure.
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../07/1.fs=20000
"the back looks just like the 421s i have without the label. that speaker has vents front and back."
Let's hope not or it won't perform as it should in either a vented or sealed cab. The point I was trying to make with the link is the lack of quality in the EV's casting compared to Altec's more machined looking finish.
GM
I forget what my C's look like. They were the orig in my 19's. re-coned with GPA parts.
I have 411's re-coned by GPA in 8 cu/ft ported boxes. They work quite well as subs. I no longer use them though.
I also have a pair of alnico 420-8A biflex. They actually sound pretty good when I put them in the 19's. Prob something no one else has ever tried.
I listen to my 19's daily. Paired with the 8184 subs, they jam big time.
Haven't been on here in awhile. Good to see you all still around.
Tubesnhorns, nice job on the speaks. How do they sound?
My rig is powered by PP 300B home brews. 300B are getting a bit hard to find!
Ron
Had some time to listen to my modified Santiago speakers. I kept the original crossover but added in a Parasound R/EQ-150 equalizer.
The bass is tremendous. More efficient than the original sealed 411's. These hybrid 421/416 drivers thrive on big watts. They gobble them up and ask for more. Loud but clear and clean.
Next upgrade will be the GPA Model 19 crossovers.
The original 806/811's can't keep up with the low end when I really crank them. They aren't bad, just not fully up to the task. I have some indecision on going with GPA 802's or stepping up to a larger format driver. Are they really that different in a application such as this?
I am in no hurry because I am enjoying these speakers so much the way they are now.
Had to park the 2A3 amp. Using an Acurus 100x3 just now to get enough grunt.
This is will be on my list.Quote:
Originally Posted by TubesNhorns
806 to 802? Yes, especially if it's an 802G with tangerine phase plug. Stepping up to a 288/511E, Mantaray or multi-cell requires a complete redesign and still leave some wanting more HF.Quote:
Originally Posted by TubesNhorns
811 to 511 would be a personal preference plus polar responses are different enough to ideally require a lower XO point.
A good reason to bi-amp..........
GM
how would 802Gs do with a mr994a? http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/vint...spec_sheet.pdf
Never got around to trying this combo, but I'd be surprised if it was much different to the 909 based on how it performs on the 511.
GM
when i get some xlr cables and time i can do a side by side and at least give it a listen.
The 802 will probably have the smoothest throat transition. I think 909 will have a 7/8 inch aperture, and leave a ~1/16 wide step at the junction where it meets the 994's 1 inch throat. It's probably a mostly inaudible issue since the step is facing the load rather than the driver. But, i know it's a no no in the horn theory textbook, and a mismatch at the horn/driver junction would keep me all kinds of awake at night.
BT, your memory's getting to be as bad as mine! :( http://www.hostboard.com/forums/f700...over-freq.html
GM
History has taught me to assume very little with Altec, and to be careful about posting assumptions. In all fairness, i've never had a 909 in my hands long enough to put the ruler across it.
I want to assume that a 902 and 909 use the same motor assembly. Maybe a member who has one easily accesible would measure one for us
...................... and yes, my memory and my eyesight are not what they used to be. I expect it's a downhill run from here.