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Just wanted to know if the PMS system will make a difference on performance for JRSC B18B engines. Are they any good? A friend of mine is selling his to me. I heard that when you properly tune the PMS on forced induction cars, it will make a big difference. Is anyone using this type of system right now?
Any inputs on this guys?!
thanks
Defconsc
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yes the PMS is very good. if you read up on it you will see all the good features.
i love the PMS. if you buy it with datalogging it should come out to about $1000. the good part is that you dont need an upgradded chip(ecu), FPR, or even a fuel pump. if your car is running fine now then installing it wont efect anything but you could. it will be alot of help on the dyno and on the street.
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i can't wait to get rid of the JR EMS!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GSedanR:
yes the PMS is very good. if you read up on it you will see all the good features.
i love the PMS. if you buy it with datalogging it should come out to about $1000. the good part is that you dont need an upgradded chip(ecu), FPR, or even a fuel pump. if your car is running fine now then installing it wont efect anything but you could. it will be alot of help on the dyno and on the street.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Is it me, or was the Prelude JRSC kit the least thought out and least reliable JRSC kit out there?
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Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC @10psi, All the Goodies!
Best 1/4 ==> 13.356 @ 105.92mph (non-drag street tires!)
My JRSC Install Site
i suppose the electronics and fuel management are no worse than any of the other kits if you *added* the btc, map converter, and high flow pump to those kits.
however, i want more control! i don't like nonadjustable things that "remap timing and fuel curves..."
but to be fair to JR, except for running really lean my car has ran very well for many months.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holden:
Is it me, or was the Prelude JRSC kit the least thought out and least reliable JRSC kit out there?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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[This message has been edited by schwett (edited January 21, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by schwett (edited January 21, 2002).]
I was contimplating getting the PMS system as opposed to Hondata. It's still up in the air for now.
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99 GSR- DRAG III Turbo
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 228GSR:
I was contimplating getting the PMS system as opposed to Hondata. It's still up in the air for now.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i dont want to talk you out of anything but this is what i think:
they seem to have the same features but the HONDATA has the cool shift light(lights up the CEL to a set shift point, the full throttle shift feature, and the ability to move the vtec crossover point. good!
now the PMS can't do the shift light thing. also it doesnt say anywhere(manuals, instructions, etc.) that it can do fullthrottle shifts or move the vtec crossover but YOU CAN.
it has acc. ports where you can control NOS, vtec, fullthrottle shifts, etc. either by throttle position OR by RPM. the PMS gives you the the option of making three fuel/timing maps the you can switch to at any time(racing, fuel economy, city driving).
like i said this is what i think and i may have more info on the PMS because i've been using it. so if there's any other options the HONDATA has over the PMS please SPEAK UP.
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I had a PMS for a while and while it looks great on their website, it isn't the most user friendly system to try and go stand-alone with.
In order to use bigger injectors and stand alone you almost have to start from scratch on all the tables as it cannot re-calibrate the OE tables like the Hondata does. In fact some important features are not available on every application. Idle speed and Air/Water temp adjustments to name a couple. Yes, on my PMS for Honda it would not let me adjust the idle parameter which really sucked when using big injectors.
One main difference besides all the bells and whistles (that the PMS may be able to pull off with an ass load of relay work and electrical engineering using the Acc ports) is the fact that the PMS has no idea what VTEC is opposed to Hondata knowing, controlling, and fueling for the VTEC individually for both cams. Something PMS will always compromise somewhere for.
One other problem I had which could of been case specific was that I would have a data set that I was starting to feel comfortable with, and for no known reason, table parameters would change (be corrupted) without me doing anything, which could fry an engine quick.
I just didn't trust my engine to it.
Disclaimer - I have had numerous people who have had success with the unit tell me so. I also have talked to the biggest DRAG installer in town who had one and agreed with it not being up to par, said he killed multiple engines using it. Canned it and went ACCEL I think.
will the PMS make a noticable difference in power, and i guess be more reliable for the engine?
People here were saying that with larger injectors, the PMS won't compensate for that?
Any inputs on that?
Is it good to buy a used PMS system or a new one???
Oh BTW (ZIP) I'm going to purchase the O2 sim on importparts.com.
MY CEL has not come up as of yet though. ZIP does ALL GUTTED cats create a CEL light on?
Defconsc
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will the PMS make a noticable difference in power, and i guess be more reliable for the engine?
People here were saying that with larger injectors, the PMS won't compensate for that?
Any inputs on that?
Is it good to buy a used PMS system or a new one???
Oh BTW (ZIP) I'm going to purchase the O2 sim on importparts.com.
MY CEL has not come up as of yet though. ZIP does ALL GUTTED cats create a CEL light on?
Defconsc
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I think technically it could compensate for larger injectors IF you buy the Windows software to be able to run in "stand Alone" mode.
But then it's not like Hondata where you can just input what injector your changing to and it calculates the rest instantly. YOu would physically have to go in the the Stand alone tables and modify each cell which would need to be done with a wide band or dyno and lots of time.
The PMS does have an injector option in the software but it only works on mass air sensor equipped vehicles, not MAP like our cars. One of those options I said didn't work on our application http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
One reason I was looking into the PMS system was because then dyno I get my car tuned at carries and tunes PMS systems. I figure if you were going to get a standalone, get one that somebody knows how to tune.
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99 GSR- DRAG III Turbo
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 228GSR:
One reason I was looking into the PMS system was because then dyno I get my car tuned at carries and tunes PMS systems. I figure if you were going to get a standalone, get one that somebody knows how to tune.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You must go to Engineered.
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Yes sir!!!
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99 GSR- DRAG III Turbo
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Turismo:
I had a PMS for a while and while it looks great on their website, it isn't the most user friendly system to try and go stand-alone with.
In order to use bigger injectors and stand alone you almost have to start from scratch on all the tables as it cannot re-calibrate the OE tables like the Hondata does. In fact some important features are not available on every application. Idle speed and Air/Water temp adjustments to name a couple. Yes, on my PMS for Honda it would not let me adjust the idle parameter which really sucked when using big injectors.
One main difference besides all the bells and whistles (that the PMS may be able to pull off with an ass load of relay work and electrical engineering using the Acc ports) is the fact that the PMS has no idea what VTEC is opposed to Hondata knowing, controlling, and fueling for the VTEC individually for both cams. Something PMS will always compromise somewhere for.
One other problem I had which could of been case specific was that I would have a data set that I was starting to feel comfortable with, and for no known reason, table parameters would change (be corrupted) without me doing anything, which could fry an engine quick.
I just didn't trust my engine to it.
Disclaimer - I have had numerous people who have had success with the unit tell me so. I also have talked to the biggest DRAG installer in town who had one and agreed with it not being up to par, said he killed multiple engines using it. Canned it and went ACCEL I think.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
anyone wanna buy this shit from me?
im going to hondata's web site right now to check it out.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
p.s. i've had no problems yet and love this unit (PMS)
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I wasn't trashing it, just pointing out it's not so strong points.
I also said I've heard of many peeps running it with much success but no one in this area I've met has enough experience with it for me to feel comfortable with.
Frank has made a very important point/distinction in deciding which engine management system to purchase...
Go with the one that you get the most help with... from the people/tuners that make you comfortable.
If your tuner is NOT comfortable with a certain system... he cannot get its maximum capabilities out of it. Consider the ACCELLE DFI... it is an older system and is WAY behind the current wave of products... and yet people still use it. Why ??? Simple, because many tuners are proficient with it and can eek out every last pony that your motor has in it.
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Motorvations Motorsports
(205) 854-8458
'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
i'll be the first success story with PMS on this thread then.
I dont in any way claim that your results will be like those of mine. There are too many variables involved.
I do all the building, installing, and tuning on my own.. every setup is different.
I have a built 96 gsr running 15.5 psi daily on 91 pump gas (very well tuned). I recently put down my best numbers so far...
315whp and 225wtq at dynospot racing ..
this was my conservative safe setting. I take out vipers, sc cobras, z06s, 911TT like nothing.
I run EFI's PMS as my fuel/timing management...I have really no problems at all which are really worth complaining about.
No the PMS doesn't control vtec...but that's all my 100 dollar field vtec SFC does nowadays.
PMS sucks at controlling boost on Hondas...but my apex AVCR offers unparallel boost control that I would not want compromised for the life of my motor.
It's an overall good unit; especially for something that was made mainly for DSMs, muscle cars, and RX-7's. My thoughts.
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daily driven 96 turbo gsr hitting 11s. 270.6 WHP 218 Torque on pump gas and 13PSI. next dyno with crower stage 2 cams, 3 inch exhaust, and 16psi ;)
JRSC is garbage. I speak from experience.
i'll be the first success story with PMS on this thread then.
I dont in any way claim that your results will be like those of mine. There are too many variables involved.
I do all the building, installing, and tuning on my own.. every setup is different.
I have a built 96 gsr running 15.5 psi daily on 91 pump gas (very well tuned). I recently put down my best numbers so far...
315whp and 225wtq at dynospot racing ..
this was my conservative safe setting. I take out vipers, sc cobras, z06s, 911TT like nothing.
I run EFI's PMS as my fuel/timing management...I have really no problems at all which are really worth complaining about.
No the PMS doesn't control vtec...but that's all my 100 dollar field vtec SFC does nowadays.
PMS sucks at controlling boost on Hondas...but my apex AVCR offers unparallel boost control that I would not want compromised for the life of my motor.
It's an overall good unit; especially for something that was made mainly for DSMs, muscle cars, and RX-7's. My thoughts.
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daily driven 96 turbo gsr hitting 11s. 315WHP 225WTQ on 91 octane pump gas and 15.5 PSI.
JRSC is garbage. I speak from experience.
TrustGs-R
are you running the standalone setup?
if so how much dyno time did that take?
how long have you had it and have you had ANY problems?
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No i do not use standalone mode mainly because as annoying as they are, i still like to see CEL's come on when something is going screwy.
I've had really good results without the standalone mode, so i dont see myself running it since i'm basically done with this project.
i've run this PMS setup for about a year now.
no problems yet. People just need to understand that tuning it is not going to be completed overnight as it can be very precise.
I'd say with my tuning followed by lawrence's tuning...i've only spent about 3 hours and 10 runs on the dyno.
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daily driven 96 turbo gsr hitting 11s. 315WHP 225WTQ on 91 octane pump gas and 15.5 PSI.
JRSC is garbage. I speak from experience.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TrustGs-R:
I'd say with my tuning followed by lawrence's tuning...i've only spent about 3 hours and 10 runs on the dyno.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
is lawrence the dyno spot tuner thats really good at tuning honda's with the PMS or just one of the tuners there?
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He learned to use the PMS when I first took my car to tune on their dyno. I showed him the basic tables and such. He's best with Hondata programming.
He's a very good Honda tuner though. Especially integras.
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daily driven 96 turbo gsr hitting 11s. 315WHP 225WTQ on 91 octane pump gas and 15.5 PSI.
JRSC is garbage. I speak from experience.