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does anyone know how to shoot 3-D.
i want to shoot a 3-D horror movie. I know of the two cameras side by side thing. but i was wondering if there was c-mount lense that could take care of this. and also is it anaglyph or polarized. or are there some plug ins for adobe premiere or final cut. ANY tips would be greatly appreciated
thanks!
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who let the pigs out? who? who?
No special lenses that I know of, though normal to slight telephoto look the nicest to me. Personal preference, perhaps, but I find wide angle pushes all the detail too far away. Half the fun is inspecting all the nooks and crannies of the scene.
Premier already has a BLUE/RED filter for 3D built in. Look for it, it's there.
For some anaglyph information and other 3D stuff, check out this guy's site. He's great.
http://www.sci.fi/~animato/
Roger Evans
PS: How do you plan to keep your cameras synchronized? Crystal?
Just curious....
thanks roger,
yeah, sync was gonna be another problem.
i thought about getting two of the exact same camera. but even then they'll be falling in and out of sync i bet.
or dare i say using two DV cameras instead of super-8?
hey in premiere is it the "color offset" filter?
thanks again,
will
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who let the pigs out? who? who?
I wonder if there could be a way to do it with a double super 8 camera.
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PRM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 8th Man:
I wonder if there could be a way to do it with a double super 8 camera.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That would be ideal. I have helped build a 3D rig using a 16mm camera where the images were side by side and reduced. Basically, the end result was the size of two super 8 frames, side by side with a LOT of black above and below. Using Double Super 8 would be better use of the film volume since you could put the images side by side and just never split the film after processing. However, I know of no Double Super 8 projectors, so it looks like you would have to use a couple of Eumig double band projectors with the film spit between the two.
Roger
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 56films:
thanks roger,
yeah, sync was gonna be another problem.
i thought about getting two of the exact same camera. but even then they'll be falling in and out of sync i bet.
or dare i say using two DV cameras instead of super-8?
hey in premiere is it the "color offset" filter?
thanks again,
will
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Crystal synch will work to a degree but the images could be out of phase, meaning that one camera could have its shutter open while the other has its shutter closed. They would maintain that relationship as long as they were running, but the phase difference can sometimes look weird, from what I've seen.
All video cameras will run in perfect synch, so the miniDV would work just great. Viewing is another story, unfortunately. There are some low resolution "I-Glasses" made for 3D viewing but they depend on using the interlacing of the video to carry the dual images, which cuts the resolution down even more. Two LCD video projectors with polarizers and a reflex screen work perfectly, but a little pricey. Plus, you need a way to start the video sources at exactly the same time. You could probably find a used video edit controller that would do the trick and would be accurate to within a frame, which is plenty close enough, since you'd be working in video and not film.
No the Premeir filter is pretty much marked "3D" or something obvious like that. I don't have my system fired up or I would go look for it. I do know it is a render only filter. Now the red/blue thing can work just great if you get the filtration and color adjustment on the TV set right. I saw a laser disk of "Creature from the Black Lagoon" and the 3D was perfect.
Good luck!
Roger
Canon does sell a 3D lens for the XL1/XL1S. The cam is about 3000-4500. Depends if used or the newer model (XL1S). The lens itself is about $4000 (i might be off). That would bring your equipment cost to around $9000. Many here do not like DV. I do. Amer Cinematog did test the lens with a DP a couple of issues back. YOu may want to check it out. Either way, I am sure many of us would like to read your production notes on this one (website?).
Good luck and keep us posted.
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> All video cameras will run in perfect synch
i'm not very experienced in video, but it seems like unless you had a proper genlock/tbc/whatever/and so on setup, video cameras would have basically the same phase problem. slightly less obvious due to the 100% duty cycle, but still...
/matt
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mattias:
> All video cameras will run in perfect synch
i'm not very experienced in video, but it seems like unless you had a proper genlock/tbc/whatever/and so on setup, video cameras would have basically the same phase problem. slightly less obvious due to the 100% duty cycle, but still...
/matt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi, Mattias!
Yes this is true about the phase issue. However, my experience has been that the most they would be off would be no more than a 60th of a second (for NTSC) or the equivelant of one field. That is so negligable that the eye doesn't perceive the effect, though it no doubt can be there.
When I was speaking about "perfect synch" I mean that the two cameras would not require special controllers to keep their running speed in synch with each other, even if the the interlacing of the two was slightly out of phase. If they were half a video frame off, they would maintain that relationship and the human eye wouldn't really notice it due to the 100% duty cycle, as you pointed out. It really looks very "live"; more so than film in 3D.
As I pointed out, the "I-Glasses" Virtual Reality goggles use interlacing to carry both the left and right image by sequencing the two images and splitting them up. Therefore, the left and right images are always out phase with each other by a 60th of a second, but it still looks fine due to the higher frame rate of video. Film shot at 24 fps that is out of phase can sometimes look weird. Not always, but on fast action there can be a perceptable "lag".
Roger
The other day, I found a web page that explains how to build your own 3D system for shooting Super8, but I don't remember the adress. I'm looking for now... Stay tuned
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hello all,
i've been meaning to post, but a truck took down a telephone poll and various lines on friday thus keeping me from connecting both at home and work (i live next door to my work) all weekend (boo-hoo)
couldn't i just optically print the same footage and then offset the image and optically print both rolls (original and copy) onto one roll. and then just project that - no hassle of two projectors, sync would be perfect...
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who let the pigs out? who? who?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MovieStuff:
However, I know of no Double Super 8 projectors, so it looks like you would have to use a couple of Eumig double band projectors with the film spit between the two.Roger<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think that is similar to the way Lenny Lipton did it in his book. I have the chapter on it in case anyone wants a xerox copy. It looks like a real pain but if anyone wants to do it the "old way" more power to you!
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> couldn't i just optically print the same footage and then offset the image
yes you could, but why would you? :-) adding depth to a 2-d image doesn't make it 3-d.
/matt
well then how do the filters work in adobe premiere?
more and more i realize this is to big for me to deal with in super-8. i love super-8 but i think minidv is gonna be the easiest.
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who let the pigs out? who? who?
OK, guys... Here's the link you need:
http://www.steve-spicer.com/Filmstuff/3DFilm.html
Hope this helps ;-)
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I just remembered there is another way you can do achieve 3D using only one camera. It's called the "Pendulum Effect" and requires that the camera always be moving in the same direction (either dollying left or dollying right).
Here is why it is called the "Pendulum Effect": If you take a pair of really dark sunglasses and pop the dark lens out of one side and view a pendulum swinging back and forth, after a second or two, the pendulum will appear to be swinging in a slightly oval fashion. This is because the dark lens on one eye, believe it or not, actually slows the transmission of the image along the optic nerve by as much as a 10th of a second, which is a lot. Therefore, as the pendulum swings, one eye is seeing in "real time" and the other eye is seeing in "delayed time". This difference will be heightened when the pendulum swings one direction and lessoned when it swings the other direction, resulting in the appearance of it being closer then further away as it alternates directions.
Now, how do you get 3D out of this?
Well, if you have a camera constantly moving, say, to the right, that would make the scenery constantly move to the left hand side of the screen. More importantly, the perspective will be constantly changing, as well, with the camera seeing around objects in its field of view. If you view this footage with a dark filter covering your left eye, then the image will appear in perfect 3D.
Why?
Because the left eye is seeing in "delayed time", meaning the signal it sends to the brain is of the perspective from a few frames back (before objects were "uncovered" due to movement). The right eye, however, is seeing in "real time" from a totally different perspective AFTER objects had been uncovered. The difference in these two perspectives combine in the brain to make up a perfect 3D image.
A really fun experiment to do is to take some objects like chess pieces or small dolls or a toy car and put it on a "lazy susan" or an old record player on the slowest speed or even turning by hand. Shoot some video of this from the side view. Now view it with the single filter over one eye. If the foreground objects were moving screen left, then cover your left eye. If they were moving screen right, then cover you right eye. After a few seconds of constant viewing the image will suddenly become perfect 3D.
The catch is that when the movement stops, the 3D stops, as well! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
In fact, the effect is so lifelike and stunning that I am surprised a line of adult porno tapes with a babe on a rotating bed hasn't ever been made. It would sell like hot cakes. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Anyway, I digress.
As a side note, air and sea rescue workers in helicopters often cover one eye with a dark filter to heighten their sense of depth so that objects floating on the surface far below will stand out more. If the scenery is passing to their left, then they cover their left eye, etc.
Anyway, not the same as using two cameras but it will work with any moving medium. Try it! It's fun!
Roger
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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html