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Hello there,
Please can you help me?
A freind of mine would like me to put some super 8 together and play it on a loop for his club nights.
I've thought about how to do it and haven't a clue.
If you have any suggestions i would be very gratefull.
If you know please give me a shout, you can mail me at [email protected].
I would love to hear from you.
thanks
I would create this project from video based masters that originated on Super-8.
This is a situation where an Idea comes before the Horse.
Do you really want the responsibility of Projecting original Super-8 film...???
100% guaranteed the film will get damaged, or lost, and splices will come apart.
...and you probably won't have the correct audio interface to go from the film projector to the audio board and into the speakers.
If you have a $500-1,000.00 Budget...you could ask for everyone to submit their Super-8 Projects on BetaCam SP...and make a loop tape of the films by editing BetaCam SP to BetaCam SP.
Plan B would be to ask for everything on Mini-DV, Edit on a Final Cut Pro...and make a mini-DV master.
Although you are much better off with DV-CAM over Mini-DV
What does the $500-1,000 buy you if you choose Plan A?
It buys you knowledge and experience about the professional way to do something.
Plan B is the semi-professional "throw it against the wall and hope it sticks" method.
Which frankly is a little bit unfair to those who you have solicited copies of their film from.
Alex
Hey Alex,
Geez, you sure read a lot into that query!
/Pat
Guilty as charged!
You don't say how long the loop will be Hubba, and this is pretty important. For a very short passage I've simply run the film through the Super 8 projector and spliced one end to the other, as I wanted a shot of cowboys at full gallop charging towards the camera to continue throughout the party.
This worked well. There was a small jump cut as the splice came through the gate, but the tape held all evening with ease and the film was undamaged as it was in free air from the back of the projector to the front.
tom.
Alex what the f**k are you talking about??
I have done it like this: cut a piece of film you want to loop. (75cm or something, depends what kind of projector is used)
Run it thru the projector (well, half of it) and glue the end and the begining together with tape. Loop ready. And before spliceing you can scratch the film with knifes etc. and you can also draw on to film. I have made exelent loops like this.
M
What am I talking about?
I'm talking about a three-way situation.
The worst type of business deal imagineable.
Person A makes a request...Person B agrees to help Person A and asks Person C for Super-8 film footage.....
Person A is clueless as to the "Value" of the material he or she receives from C Via B, probably assuming it is a copy and not the original.
Person B sees an opportunity to try something new and probably isn't being paid
...so any effort they make seems heroic to themselves....
Person C assumes A & B will take great care of their Super-8 film.....
HA!
Person C will somehow get blamed for a poor show...even though all they did was just supply movie footage.
Even though C has done nothing wrong...C may be blamed for a....bad projector...bad projector angle....dim picture...Poor Audio....horrible screen....."ruining" the projector if it suddenly eats the film....the list is endless.
Even though it is Person C who will probably recieve their film back in no where near the condition they generously gave it to B in the first place....they will be blamed for a bad show...
...and get no credit for a good show.
If the use of Super-8 film has not been scripted for the club setting it is to be used in...
.....the filmmaker (C) will get burned.
These are the type of projects that give Super-8 a bad name...and delegate it to "home-move" status.
That's why I say project the transferred to Video Super-8's........
.....on video.
Seems to me....BEFORE ANY EFFORT IS MADE TO SEE THIS PROJECT TO FRUITION....YOU SHOULD TAKE A PRE-EXISTING SUPER-8 FILM PRINT...the kind of prints that were made in the 70's from existing Major Motion Picture releases...
....and go through all the necessary steps for showing it in a club setting...(of course, you cannot charge for this screening because it is a print of copyrighted material!).
...if this "test" Super-8 Screening goes over well....meaning you did every step correctly in putting on a Super-8 show...then consider doing a show for real...
However, I still think showing someones original Super-8 film without them being present is ill-advised.
Especially the first night out on a venture such as this.
If you successfully show a "Super-8 print" and you overcome all the technical issues....
and decide you still want to show Super-8 originals.....I strongly recommend you invite the filmmakers to be present.
Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited February 05, 2001).]
i've made lots of these loops. they break often and get scratched up over time, but generally, if you have a decent projector and some splicing tape you just do what the others have mentioned.
the only addition i would make is that you may need to erect some sort of path for the loop to follow--this is easily done with coat hangers bent in shapes that the film can drape over. you don't want the loop tangling on the machine or falling in front of the lens.
alex- i think you've got the wrong idea of what hubba is after.
Yes, I have hyper-extended the purpose of Huba's involvement simply because not enough info was given.
If you analyze Huba's post....it sounds like he or she does not want to even check back to this site...simply e-mail him or her with an answer and they'll be merrily on their way.
What I see is a curious person with enthusiasm and energy...who will learn by their own mistakes at the expense of other peoples films....
If they make it back to this site perhaps they will learn a lot more than they bargained for...what's wrong with that?
Alex
Whoa, Whoa. Hey Alex I know where you are coming from. However, it seems to me that you are a bit hot under the collar. I have agreed with what you have said all along. If I am wrong in my observation then I am sorry.
Actually, I was responding to Mikko...with my second to last post...my last post was a response to m. jeanes.
I'm passionate more than hot under the collar.
Alex
I agree with Alex if the footage is of "value". I have doen this for a party that my friend was having in a warehouse--I shot some film--Nothing that I knew I would cherish or really use for any other purpose. Then I just played it over and over again. I did not loop it because I didn't want my projector to overheat and blow-up. Good Luck
Thank you all so much for your help.
By the sound of your advice, i think i may forget about my idea.
It sounds as though i would ruin my film which i definately would not want to do. Instead i'm going to compile all my films onto DV.
A freind of mines has a desktop video thing and were going to edit the best parts and wap it toghether. It wont be ready for this friday but should be on the go soon after. Thanks again for all you help espacially Jeanes for your tips on BIG loops and Alex for your caution and advice on transferring to DV.
Thanks very much guys
love from
Hubba
------------------
Congratulations...You've graduated to learning how to preserve your Super-8 Films!
Now you will need to research the best way to transfer your movies to DV...and I strongly recommend DV-Cam over Mini-Dv.
Unfortunately, most DV editors use their Mini-DV cameras to load in their material for desktop editing...then record back to the same camera when they are done.
Mini-DV is a tiny format that I frankly don't trust. Tape Path Misalignment is an inevitability that can be masked by both recording and playing back on the same unit.
The standalone Full-Size DV-CAM decks start at approximately $ 1,000-1,500 and go way up from their.
See if you can get a DV-CAM deck, if not for the inital transfer....then as a back-up DV format when you are ready to copy your edited version from the computer back to Videotape....make a master to Mini-DV, make another master to DV-CAM...consider the DV-CAM as your Archive Master.
I recommend you look at the other discussions that have dropped down to pages 2-4 on this site about the different ways to transfer your Super-8 footage to Video.
Is a video projector against a wall really going to be good enough?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, I was wrong about you stopping back on this site...you did!....glad you came back.
Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited February 06, 2001).]
alex- nothing's wrong with wanting to help someone out... and you have a good point. my problem is that sometimes "the best" way to do something isn't nearly possible, and it sucks to kill someone's enthusiasm by telling them that they will be making a mistake by doing a certain thing another way.
the same kind of thing happened to me when i asked here some time ago about making duplicate super 8 prints. people kept telling me just to bump it up to 16 mm. i don't have any 16 mm projectors, and i mentioned that, so for my purpose, that suggestion was futile, but it popped up more than once.
the point was, i realize projecting 16 mm or video would be BETTER but that's like telling me i should be driving a porsche instead of my geo metro. the video transfer or 16 mm projection would do me no good... i've got 5 super 8 projectors but nothing else.
i saw this post as something like that, cause i do the exact same kind of thing-- loops to play in a club for ambience. sure, it'd be nice to have 3 digital projectors rated at X number of lumens a piece to show my loops in a club but...
the fact remains that super 8 is the poor man's film and that doesn't give it a bad name, it just gives broke people with an idea a way to execute. if it means cutting up your only copy of a print and looping it with coat hangers-- more power to you.
you know?
matt
Actually, I have regret at the Time-Lapse shots that were beautiful as just one long piece, that I was forced to cut-up with my movie-viewer and splicer before the days of video editing....
Time-lapse Shots that were beautiful as just one long piece....
I look at most Super-8 I have shot as liquid gold...it has a value because I took the time to go to a location, shoot, develop the footage, transfer to video, and edit.
The beauty of film is that as video improves...so does the look of film on video.
I believe it is "worth it" to show your Super-8 originals ONLY if you are there, you know the projector that is to be used, the projector has been cleaned and checked...and that whoever is running the projector truly understands the importance of "monitoring" the projector and the film to make sure the projector is not damaging the film.
......And hopefully, your film is the center of attention instead of a side-show background mural type thing.
Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited February 06, 2001).]
hey, i'm all for perserving that which should be preserved... and if a person has a distinct attachment to their film stock, then they ought not to farm it out for people to make loops from.
but a piece of film, super8 or otherwise, isn't necessarily a keepsake or a rare commodity. instead, it may be a very fleeting, ephemeral, physical manifestation of someone's creative moment, and we should respect people who want to use it as such.
i loved watching negativeland destroy their 16mm film fame by frame by pausing it long enough for the projector to burn it because it reminded me how much importance people put on the object and how little they attach to the idea.
and for god's sake, if someone wants a film to be the flickering background visual wallpaper in a club, then let them do it. every piece of film isn't worthy of being the center of attention, in fact MOST aren't. most developed film is crap, which is why no one ever sees it. (and as movie-goers we get to see lots of crap on top of that!)
let's remove the notion of the ego of the creator from the equation and let the work speak for itself. if it's a really amazing film, it'll draw attention to itself; if not, and it blends nicely with the music and other ambience, then it's served a noble purpose.
diy is the essence of super8. i've got tons of 2-5 ft scraps if anyone wants some for loops. mostly b&w, just nice grainy traintracks and such.
huba, if you're still reading this, good luck with your project.
Bonfire of the Vanities! Now I understand what that means.
Ephermeral...I'm adding that to my vocabulary...I heard it, said it (maybe) but I have never used it for writing.
I still think part of what you are saying gives super-8 a bad name. Running the super-8 in film loops reminds of grating cheese.
DYI....Destroy it Yourself.
A video image of the super-8 original isn't such a bad thing...although it does add expense if done properly.
But ultimately...your philosophy of just letting it go is important,....otherwise you become a pack rat like me.
-Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited February 09, 2001).]
Back to the initial question:
There is a loop projection unit for 50 ft S8-film at ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI....tem=1408932925
Pedro