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Is there somebody who can remove my doubt: if you want to make a movie and you have to shoot many cartridges in different situation of light (indoor and outdoor shootings with artificial light, with natural light, different kind of weather when you are outdoor and so on...) when you go for editing how can you be shure the different scenes looks similar in grain, contrast ecc... i mean, i'd like not to go crazy and spending lot of money in doing corrections when transferring maybe there are some rules you can use for this when you shoot (maybe trying to use always the same f/stops?) any idea will be very appreciated!
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this is a problem. It is the job of the cinematographer to try and get the colour/look the same, and a colourist to match the colours when creating a print. But to be honest I shouldnt worry about it, if you let this worry stand in your way you will never do anything. A film with colour matching problems is a million times better than no film at all.
You could always try using Black and White, which is much more forgiving, or keep the number of locations down to a minimum. Or dont be too ambitious with the look of the film - just get the story told.
I try and do everything in black and white and just try and get enough light for an exposure. Then at least you can tell the story. When you can afford a pro cinematographer then let him/her worry about it.
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by the way, it doesnt really show up mid scene - a scene shot at the same time tends to have the same sort of colours, its when the light changes that you have problems - such as between different scenes.
Take a look at 'Being John Malchovitch' - they must have used many different types of film stock in that. One short scene especially stands out to me, was in a car, suddenly the film looked horrible, really grainy and dirty, when I mentioned this to a friend of mine, he hadnt noticed it. If you get involved in the story you wont notice these things, unless you are really concerned about colour matching.
In which case try and film everything quickly and efficiently, and at roughly the same time of day - etc. Use the same film stock and filters EVERYWHERE, use extra lights indoors and so on....
BUt yeah its an issue
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You're perfectly all right... but i know i'll go on worring about it, i know myself...
Yo're perfectly all right the second time when you talk about the STORY, how said Samuel Fuller when they asked him: ?What makes a good movie?? and he answered ?The story?... ?And what make a good story?? Samuel ansewred again: ?the story?...
Hey! Do you know Nathan H. Schiff? I saw two of his movies (Long Island Cannibal Massacre and Weasel rip my flesh...) do you know if he shoot them with S8 or 16mm?
Thanks, ciao.
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I dont know.
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I learned the hard way on Lost Tribes.
Do not use different stocks.
I shot on K-40 & Ektachrome 160 & 125, and I had exactly this problem, grain & color are wildly different between K-40 & Ektachrome.
I suggest shooting all Kodachrome 40.
Always get the highest F-stop you can, if you want grain stucture to be similar (as well as sharpness).
So get as much light as possible at all times, although my extremely low-light scenes in my film, that wer shot on K-40 looks worlds better than the well-lit Ektachrome!
Matt Pacini
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Scene transition shots can mask grain differences from scene to scene.
If you end one scene with a close-up, then the way you start the next scene can either mask or draw attention to the grain and color differences of the film.
If you end one scene on a close-up, and start the next scene on a close-up, grain differences will probably be more noticeable.
Sometimes you want the grain to establish the mood of the scene!
So perhaps another question to ask, "Does my "look" (which has been created primarily by set, lighting, lens choice, actors wardrobe and film stock), complement the scene I am shooting".
If you follow that line of thinking through out your movie, the grain differences may indeed be lost because of the storyline.
-Alex
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Thanks to all!
Yes, i'm going to shoot only with K40. As you say, Alex, transition shots can be very useful and i'm going to shoot some close ups and details in every location at the end of every cartridges to have more alternatives when editing.
ciao
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jambu:
Long Island Cannibal Massacre and Weasel rip my flesh
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
If there is a movie called "Weasel Rip My Flesh", *especially* if it is filmed in super8, I have to see it.
I don't know why, I just think this is funny and I'm still laughing. "Long Island Cannibal Massacre" isn't a bad title either.
Scott
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex:
[B]
Scene transition shots can mask grain differences from scene to scene.
If you end one scene with a close-up, then the way you start the next scene can either mask or draw attention to the grain and color differences of the film.
(Matt Pacini responds):
Alex, have you actually done this or are you guessing?
Because I have done it both ways, and the look of the different film stocks is so shocking, that it is irrelevant what your transitions are.
If the stocks were close in grain & look, that would be one thing, but they aren't, and especially K-40, which looks completely different than any of the other S8 stocks, and has MUCH finer grain.
Again, anyone doubting this should get a copy of my film on ebay (sorry to plug, if I could afford it I would give them out for free), and watch it.
You will see completely different transitions between scenes, and similar ones: brightly lit outdoor scenes cutting to a dark, moody Temple Sacrifice scene inside of a cave, with deep blue light shining down on the cave walls, etc.
You can still see a huge shift in grain structure.
Yeah, stick to the K-40.
I've never yet heard anyone ever say they were sorry for having shot something on S8 K-40, have you?
Matt Pacini
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex:
Scene transition shots can mask grain differences from scene to scene.
If you end one scene with a close-up, then the way you start the next scene can either mask or draw attention to the grain and color differences of the film.
(Matt Pacini responds):
Alex, have you actually done this or are you guessing?
Because I have done it both ways, and the look of the different film stocks is so shocking, that it is irrelevant what your transitions are.
If the stocks were close in grain & look, that would be one thing, but they aren't, and especially K-40, which looks completely different than any of the other S8 stocks, and has MUCH finer grain.
Again, anyone doubting this should get a copy of my film on ebay (sorry to plug, if I could afford it I would give them out for free), and watch it.
You will see completely different transitions between scenes, and similar ones: brightly lit outdoor scenes cutting to a dark, moody Temple Sacrifice scene inside of a cave, with deep blue light shining down on the cave walls, etc.
You can still see a huge shift in grain structure.
Yeah, stick to the K-40.
I've never yet heard anyone ever say they were sorry for having shot something on S8 K-40, have you?
Matt Pacini
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm basing my experiences on editing over the last 8-10 years.
If you ever want to see grain reduction that I can do for you, send me one betacam-sp tape of an Ektachrome film transfer done via rank cintel...
...I'll send you back the original betacam sp and a re-mastered beta copy that looks marketedly less grainy.
-Alex
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex:
[B]
"If you ever want to see grain reduction that I can do for you, send me one betacam-sp tape of an Ektachrome film transfer done via rank cintel...
...I'll send you back the original betacam sp and a re-mastered beta copy that looks marketedly less grainy. "
What magic process do you use to get rid of grain?
In MY experience, grain is the most detailed thing in the image, it is PART of the image itself, and the only way to simulate it not being there, is to apply blur filters on it, which ruins the sharpness.
It also doesn't work if the grain is so large, that there is not much apparent sharpness in the image.
I would very much like to know how you do this, because I've got grain the size of freakin' hubcaps in my Ektachrome footage!
(Or more accurately, it looks like I shot through a glass box full of about 500,000 gnats attached to the front of my lens! Hideous stuff, that Ektachrome!!!! They should discontinue it at once!)
Matt Pacini
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I'd rather try it and see if you like it..rather than give away the recipe.
I tried the grain reduction on a piece of kodachrome that was ringing so bad from "sharpness" and grain, and I managed to get it looking very acceptable for someone...the transfer house shall remain nameless.
-Alex
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I would like to add to the "use transitions to hide grain" or whatever.
There are so many limiting factors when planning your shots, and then in editing, that it would be a bad idea to add another limiting factor to the mix.
In other words, maybe when you're editing your film, the best thing to cut to for the story, is not the best thing to cut to, according to your "transition formula".
The story should always win out, and I can't imagine, when storyboarding, thinking about what shot is best, based on how grainy & different the stocks are going to make my scenes.
There are just too many other factors imposing themselves on the process, without adding another one that has no benefit to the telling of the story.
Matt Pacini
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I am very glad to learn that K40 is better in low light, and Matt, the hubcap-sized grain in your Ekta rings familiar. I am very inclined to never use it again myself.
I have no film knowledge to contribute here, but I do happen to know that "Weasels Ripped My Flesh" is a Frank Zappa album, so you can probably find out more about the film by slogging through Zappa-history.
DD
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http://members.aol.com/shockcin/longisland.html
here' s where you can find a review of THE LONG ISLAND CANNIBAL MASSACRE (1983) by Nathan H. Schiff.
He made also a movie called WEASELS RIPP MY FLESH in the late '70s and that's the one i think shooted in S8.
However WEASELS RIPPED MY FLESH is also an album by Frank ?Broken hearts are for assholes? Zappa.
JAMBU
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WEASELS RIPPED MY FLESH has one of the best album covers too.... a classic.
Almost as good as Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica cover....
Matt Pacini
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