cooling JRSC

How do I go about cooling my JRSC water injection? nitrous which is the best way to go?



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95 Civic Coupe b18c5
JRSC

Import Specialty Automotive (253) 473-2606

a 25 shot of n2o would cool without any power loss (will only add power). water injection is a good way to help cure detnation , but it will rob a little power . the issue with n2o is the $$ of bottle fills .

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99' GSR / JRSC @ 6psi
-JR MAP & BTC
-Walbro 342
-Comptech exhaust & intake/icebox
-Comptech/Koni coilovers
-Mugen 22mm rear sway bar

tell me more about the nirous what kinda set up would i use. dry I'm assuming way down intake pipe? and what kind of activation.


derik

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95 Civic Coupe b18c5
JRSC

Import Specialty Automotive (253) 473-2606

klintman,

Explain to me why you think water injection robs power.

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I'll give it a shot....

The "extra" water (mist) from the water injection will take up space inside the combustion chamber therefore reducing the amount of air coming into the combustion chamber. Less air means less power. How'd I do with that explanation?

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95 EX Coupe w/SC'd JDM B16 @9 psi
http://community.webshots.com/user/hybridex

I thought it was opposite-- the water cools the air therefore allowing denser air into the chamber. Thereby increaseing power...

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it takes up a certain volume in the intake stream . a volume that cools , but wont combust like air/fuel . the same principals that help it to control detnation will retard combustion slightly . just think about it your adding water to fire . i think it was aquamist's web site that explained this . the loss in power is minimal though (less than 4%).

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99' GSR / JRSC @ 6psi
-JR MAP & BTC
-Walbro 342
-Comptech exhaust & intake/icebox
-Comptech/Koni coilovers
-Mugen 22mm rear sway bar

Acutally the main thing I hate about the H2O injection is how it will rust your head after time which could ruin you engine. How do I know this, a friend with a 97 R what was done by JR had all that stuff in his car. After wondering why the car was running bad we pulled the blower and head and noticed rust which appeared to be coming from the H2O injection. When the car is off and sitting the H20 sometimes drips the left over water into the engine!!!!

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Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged w/255whp & 166trq
Member of the 12sec club!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
For for the best dynotuning check out:
http://www.dynospotracing.com

think of your car running in a climate of 85 to 80% relative humidity all the time . maby you get the idea . i know having had a really agressively modified motorcycle (a yzf 600 ;porting , fcr down draft carbs , vance&hines power ing, yoshimura cams , ect cetra) in florida for 2 years + how realitive humidity can effect an engine . the diffence of a dry day to a humid one was imediately obvious in a mechcanical ignition carbureted vehicle . after a certain point humidity robed power . the differance could be as much as 10mph on the top end . if anyone can chalenge this with logic, reason or science go ahead .

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99' GSR / JRSC @ 6psi
-JR MAP & BTC
-Walbro 342
-Comptech exhaust & intake/icebox
-Comptech/Koni coilovers
-Mugen 22mm rear sway bar

[This message has been edited by klintman (edited November 17, 2001).]

this is good stuff so otherwards nitrous would be the best way to cool intake charge but can't this harm the engine as well. by raising temp and pressure in the cylinders.

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95 Civic Coupe b18c5
JRSC

Import Specialty Automotive (253) 473-2606

this is good stuff so otherwards nitrous would be the best way to cool intake charge but can't this harm the engine as well. by raising temp and pressure in the cylinders.

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95 Civic Coupe b18c5
JRSC

Import Specialty Automotive (253) 473-2606

Yeah nothing worse than a rusted aluminum cylinder head.

???


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My questions would be... where is this thing mounted? On the intake, after the TB, where? Someone mentioned on the intake? Where on the intake? Closer to the filter or to the TB?

Thanks!

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"En su vida, un hombre puede cambiar de mujer, sus opiniones politicas o su religion pero no su equipo de futbol." Adreano Galleani, Uruguayen poet.

http://www.bocajuniors.com.ar/escuani.gif
http://www.c-speedracing.com/Images/C-speedbanner.gif

What I would like to know is how that "one person" got aluminum to rust?

Also, the only water that can drip into the intake manifold is what's left over in the tube between the pump and the injector. There is not enough water in that small tube to hydrolock your engine.



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as far as i know aluminium doesnt rust!!!( and im Canadian)
as for the water dripping after you shut off the engine, it must be because your water tank is higher than your outlet(T-B or intake tube( its called GRAVITY!!!!!!)
i have water inj. for 4 years with no probs( 2 years with straight water and 2 years with alcohol)

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d16z6 ,JRSC 10 psi, spearco water injection,8:6 to 1 CR
energy susp bushing ,Gude 4-1 headers,
PRM CAI filter,ground control,tokico 5-way...
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/album...3754&a=9349695

Actually if you have read my post correctly, Jackson Racing installed the water injection kit on my friends car. Therefore if, you knew your stuff; you would realize that Jackson uses the stock windshield washer reservoir as the water tank and not a separate tank per their instructions. Therefore, the water tank would be below the manifold. In addition, the proper way to hookup the kit is to tap off the manifold after the charger, to cool the heated air that the blower causes. You state: ?outlet (T-B or intake tube? in your post. However, that?s the incorrect way to hook it up. That would cool the incoming air going to the blower and not the heated air the charger blows into the JR manifold. Cooling the incoming air to the blower is fine and should be cooled, which a cold air could help with. However, the main problem is cooling the heated air that the blower causes when spinning it in the charger and then sending it into the manifold. Therefore, the way you have hooked yours up is incorrect per the JR instructions. That is also, why your engine might not have rust in it. Why? It would probably just drip water into your intake or throttle body which might not be as bad, also the misted air would evaporate so quickly once it reaches the screw in the charger it wouldn?t cause any real problems. So in a sense your way is better in its own way, however it still wouldn?t help with the real heat problem that the charger is causing in the manifold.
And, yes the engine showed rust/particle build up inside it! Why would I make something like that up! lol
When we pulled the blower off and the head off to do a head gasket swap we saw buildup marks which appeared to come from the blower. Then when we looked into the JR manifold, we saw that it was coming from the port where the H20 was hooked up by Jackson Racing. We sent the head to Portflow to get the build up removed and cleaned the manafold.
Anyway, next time attack someone's comment that really is bullshit. I?m not here to play the cyber BS game and post crap that?s not true. Moreover, no I'm not attacking you, I'm informing you of the misinformation that you have.
We've done tons of testing on the JR products in dragging, track, and autoX. We've seen the blower & parts installed by JR and others as with some cars that were said to be "graced" with the touch of Oscar himself. We are not doing testing to put down people's parts, companies, or idea?s that they represent. We are just doing testing to get the best, most reliable setup that someone can get out of these crazy kits and parts.

Oh yeah, whoever mentioned anything about hydrolocking the engine? I'm talking about the H2O causing damage to the head and manafold after time which had to be taken off by Portflow.
Anyway, enough said on this. Time to eat! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif


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Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged w/255whp & 166trq
Member of the 12sec club!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to: http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
For for the best dynotuning check out: http://www.dynospotracing.com

[This message has been edited by Rboosted717 (edited November 19, 2001).]

Let me just add that kameleon's water injection kit is not the JR/aquamist kit, I believe it is the Spearco kit. I did some research on the two kits and the main difference in the two kits is the pump. The Spearco puts out about 20psi and the JR/aquamist kit puts out about 100psi!!!

What this amounts to is that the JR/aquamist kit atomizes the water more effectively than the spearco kit. For this reason the Spearco kit should be placed BEFORE the throttle body and the JR/aquamist kit can be placed AFTER the TB in the JR manifold itself.

Rboosted: You mentioned water dripping into the manifold and head after the car is off and sitting there. That should not happen at all!I would inspect the port, checkvalve, and the adjustable boost relay switch.

AL

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12psi SOHC

[This message has been edited by BlownSOL (edited November 19, 2001).]

yes we did that as with JR did also. What we found out is thats its said to be a common problem with the kit activating when it shouldn't be, etc... Various people I've met in CA with the JRSC and the JR H2O kit, as well as a few out of state all have reported this problem. On guy in around here was using methynol in the kit and it kept activating when it shouldn't be which led to the seals on the engine to start to fail.
Anyway people can go ahead and use this kit, all I'm saying is that I wouldn't use it do to the problems that people I know have had. And most of them talked to JR checked everything, however most of it came out OK. Its just that sometimes problems will happen I guess. To me thats a BS conclusion, which is why I just tune around that problem and not use it.
Yeah I saw that he uses a Spearco water injection. What I don't see is why he would relate his Spearco H2O injection to the JR injection. They are two almost totally different things. Yes they both are water injection, however they both work totally different. Its like compairing the Vortech supercharger to the Jackson supercharger.

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Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged w/255whp & 166trq
Member of the 12sec club!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to: http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
For for the best dynotuning check out: http://www.dynospotracing.com

[This message has been edited by Rboosted717 (edited November 19, 2001).]

Quote from HybridEX :

"The "extra" water (mist) from the water injection will take up space inside the combustion chamber therefore reducing the amount of air coming into the combustion chamber. Less air means less power. How'd I do with that explanation?"

Hmmm, airfuel ratio is 15 to 1 by weight, or 900 to 1 by volume, and water to fuel use is typically 1 litre water injected for every 10 litres of fuel, so you are trying to say that 1 part water to 9000 parts air is going to rob power ???

Also, whoever it was that mentioned high humidity robbing power from there motor bike : this was in Florida (!?), where humidity is caused by *high ambient temperatures*. I suspect your car is suffering from 'low' air density, not high humidity.

The whole Aquamist thing.
Jackson racing use the Aquamist kit because 2 guys in the UK sat down and wondered how the JR kit could be improved. The two guys were the then UK importer for Jackson - Doug Sharp, and myself. Oscar was asked for his oppinion, and somewhere on my old PC is the E-mail where Oscar says it wont work. Doug bit the bullet, and ran water injection, reporting that there was a real improvement in power, in fact he estimated that it gave him what felt like 10% more power. You want to say this is BS ?, feel free, there has been so much BS about this topic already. The reason for the extra power : the water was injected imediately behind the TB, and this improves the rotor tip seal on the blower, and consequently raises boost by a little over 1 psi (from 9 to 10), the rest came from the cooling effect of the water.


So why did Jackson specify that the jet be tapped into the manifold ? the full story is that Doug left his car in his garage while he took a two week vacation, and the rear bearings in the blower corroded, causing the bearings to crap out. Doug thought that he had not left enough time between running at boost, and stopping the car. That there was water in the bearings was not a problem day to day. Its just that it was left for too long. Another problem that has not been mentioned, is that periodically, the filter screen mesh would get resticted by green scum from the water tank, if it is left to go stale over a long warm period, another excuse to add Methanol http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif

IMHO, to run water injection, it should really be injected at the throttle body, for optimum cooling, mixing, rotor sealing and cylinder share. My new set-up uses a 'Spa design' pressure / temperature gauge with an adjustable set point 'control' wire to run a second solenoid controled jet. The stock JR switch is set start the pump and inject into the manifold; the Spa controller runs a second small jet (both .4mm) at the TB, at full boost only. Also, the water does not drip when the system is off boost, as there are 2 check valves to stop water being sucked in under vacuum, so no "rusty" engines - we can all sleep safe in our beds.

Result so far ? : with a single jet, ass dyno says it workd fine, especially looking for elusive top end power. With the new set up : the car is in my garage, undergoing a major rebuild. Rest assured that I will post dyno results on this board when I have them.

Just a word to the wise : dont try to push the envelope of a Roots blower without using some sort of charge cooling. It took me a long time to realise that what I was trying to do was impossible. You cant fu*k with the laws of physics, despite all the BS you hear on the web. Go nitrous, water, intercooler, whatever, or go broke and frustrated wondering why.


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"Green Neons,Like the Fu*kin' script writers have a clue..."

Very, very nice.

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94 Civic Coupe/LS Hybrid
JRSC@6psi
Turbo Convert
Import Specialty Automotive (253) 473-2606

Mike,

Was your friend using DISTILLED water ???
I didn't think that there was any particulate material to make a rust/sediment deposit in distilled water. Is this incorrect ???


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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph

yeah he was using that good old distilled water. He even tried different brands! lol
Once he got the head back, etc... he just kept the unit off and sold it.

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Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged w/255whp & 166trq
Member of the 12sec club!
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
For for the best dynotuning check out:
http://www.dynospotracing.com

In an old issue of sport compact car they put W/inj on a JRSC Si and Lost 4 hp w/ timing @10 degrees. then they said with the added cooling effects they cranked the timing back to factory 16 btc and got 18whp. does water inj work? HELL YEAH. I went from 10degrees timing to 18degrees(approx) injecting 30% water and 70% isoprople(spelling) alcohol and I have no det what so ever. thank you!

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JRSC 6psi(soon to be 8) water inj, jr map mod, vpac, JR BTC, dcsports 4-1, apex-i N1 catback 2.5", stock cat(my bad), J&S safeguard, (JR 8psi upgrade), fuel pump, aluminum fly(6.5)lb, center force dual friction clutch. A/F gauge, FP gauge, boostgauge. and big old crappy Konig rated "R" 17's this thing is sure to be slow

Good topic guys. I'm going with nitrous personally b/c 1) its colder than water and will cool the blower more 2) it can only add power. We'll see how it works.

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David Lee -South GA Performance
2 Jef Rd Statesboro, GA 30458
(912)631-1070
[email protected]

nitrous express, greddy, wings west, apex-i, injen, carbon fiber hoods, dc sports, eibach, and much more

kameleon
I just purchased the spearco water inj. did not want to fork out the money for aquamist I am curious on where you mounted your tank and injector before the TB or manifold and also what type of alcohol you have been running. I recently dyno'ed no tuning just got a 6psi base line, 218WHP. If posible I will do it again with the inj to see if there is HP diff.

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GSR, JRSC @ 6PSI,Walbro HO fuel pump,spearco water injection, JR map mod, DC HEADER, RSR CATBACK, CLUTCH MASTER ALUMINUM FLYWHEEL AND STAGE3 CLUTCH, ES BUSHINGS FULL KIT, CROSS DRILLED BRAKES, SS LINES, COMPTECH REAR SWAY BAR, STILLEN FRONT END, ANDYS COMBAT REAR &SIDE SKIRTS

jdr , what was/is your timing at for the 218hp ?

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99' GSR / JRSC @ 6psi
-JR MAP & BTC
-Walbro 342
-Comptech exhaust & intake/icebox
-Comptech/Koni coilovers
-Mugen 22mm rear sway bar

JDR: if you take a peek just behind that yellow adapter between the air filter and the chrome intake pipe, youll see a chromed rectangular tank( thats my Water tank)and on the intake pipe you can see the hose where im injecting ...
im injecting 70% isopropyl alcool( somtimes in its pure state, but on colder temps i run a 50/50 mix)

http://public.fotki.com/kameleon/civ...mportnite.html

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d16z6 ,JRSC 10 psi, spearco water injection,8:6 to 1 CR
energy susp bushing ,Gude 4-1 headers,
PRM CAI filter,ground control,tokico 5-way...
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/album...3754&a=9349695

Thanks kameleon for the info I will give that a shot. I can get pure isopropl at work. klintman My timming was at 16 degrees, I have always had my timming set at 16 there is over a 105,000 on the motor and 37,000 of it is SC. I know alot of you will disagree with this but I think you can safely run at 16BTC if you tune your motor right. My conditions: It never gets hot up here avg temp in summer is 65f, run rich, pvc and crank breather, valves tight about 003 and 0004, very open exhaust, cold plugs, CAI, and a bunch of other little stuff to keep detonation under control. I have never heard any pinging. Have even run at 18btc with octane boost.

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GSR, JRSC @ 6PSI,Walbro HO fuel pump,spearco water injection, JR map mod, DC HEADER, RSR CATBACK, CLUTCH MASTER ALUMINUM FLYWHEEL AND STAGE3 CLUTCH, ES BUSHINGS FULL KIT, CROSS DRILLED BRAKES, SS LINES, COMPTECH REAR SWAY BAR, STILLEN FRONT END, ANDYS COMBAT REAR &SIDE SKIRTS