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I hear a Palestinean Woman berate the International News Media claiming that the death of a Palestinean is treated with indifference compared to the death of an Israeli.
It is this lack of "parity" that seems to drive the Palestineans into a frenzy.
For this Palestinean point to have validity, should not the Palestineans disavow and condemn all suicide bombing?
Until the Palestineans stop suicide bombing, how can the world take seriously the claim that a Palestinean death is treated with indifference compared to an Israeli death if the Palestineans blow themselves up.
If the Palestineans ceased suicide bombing, the international support for their "cause" would equal that of the Israeli's.
The ball truly is in the court of the Palestineans.
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Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited February 27, 2002).]
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i'm sorry...
when you use the term 'trump card', alex,
what the hell do you mean?
if you are suggesting the (played out) yin-yang
game of 'whos-got-the-upper-hand-now?'
so what?
i am not sure why you are concerned here.
yeah...i suppose that is what i am asking.
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Why am I concerned?
Because two adjoining groups of "religious" people seem to want to kill each other first and ask questions later.
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Alex
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so why is that a concern?
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So if it doesn't touch your butt, you shouldn't be concerned?
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Alex
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do you enjoy adding extraneous stress to your life?
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well, i have these nasty things called ideals that tell me they shouldn't be allowed to do so.
sigh.
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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.
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WOW!
then you are no different than the people in the
subject post.
ideals...brave new world in hypocrisy. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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zelazny was probably trying to agree with me, but as Shatouska has pointed out, you can't "make them" stop suicide bombing.
The best that can happen is for foreign dignitaries to publicly state that there can never be any chance of peace if one side fervently believes that suicide bombing is an honorable thing.
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Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited March 05, 2002).]
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So, the purpose of this post is to give you an advanced reasoning technique to use in regards to the middle east...
Until both sides agree that suicide bombing is APPREHENSIBLE...there can NEVER BE PEACE.
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Alex
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i believe suicide bombing, whilst not a good thing, is an honorable thing.
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PostModern Pollution
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There is honour in death.
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PostModern Pollution
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...or humor in it...
*feels obligated to note that when i first
read soulfilms post, i had originally thought
she had said 'humor'*
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by soulfilms:
i believe suicide bombing, whilst not a good thing, is an honorable thing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would say it's a desparate thing.
An unnecessary desparate thing.
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Alex
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why 'unnecessary'?
should people not die?
should people not choose when to die?
is death, either in suicide or other, 'unnecessary', alex?
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will you ignore my post(ings) for a third time?
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you know what...
forget that last post i made concerning the
'ignoring' thing...
you'll prolly just misinterpret my post anyway.
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well soulfilms...it's clear to me.............................(pauses to see if the S person is peeved)
Shatoushka, what the heck are you talking about? (the ignoring thing)
As for dying....do people have the right to wreak havoc on others by means of suicide???
Suicide is supposed to be a personal thing, not one that involves others.
Plus, by killing others via a suicide bomb, you deny them their right to be "saved" by God.
What a fucking selfish religion.
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Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited March 07, 2002).]
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all religion is self-serving.
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Personally, if I was gonna blow something up, I'd wanna live to see what damage I caused. The people that do suicide bombings are just looking for attention. *_*
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"God is dead." -Nietsche.
"Nietsche is dead." -God.
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They're looking for their 72 afterlife virgins that turn into new virgins every day.
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Alex
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SHATOUSHKA:
all religion is self-serving.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So, would the world be a better place with no religion? And why do you approve of one person killing others?
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Alex
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i don't "approve" of suicide killings but i respect them for the notion that they believe in their cause enough to kill themselves and others. Such blind faith is not easily found in the majority of the western world.
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PostModern Pollution
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So, would the world be a better place with no religion?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i think the correct grammar is:
'would the world be a better place without religion?'
yes.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And why do you approve of one person killing others?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
why not? we all do. i just happen to admit it freely.
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why bother correcting grammar when you have developed a whole in your head? (ooops, make that a hole, er, I mean just hole)
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Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited March 08, 2002).]
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<font size=300>LMFAO!!!</font>
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i used to think that the day would never come,
that my life would depend on the morning sun
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alex:
They're looking for their 72 afterlife virgins that turn into new virgins every day.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
huh?
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PostModern Pollution
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For soulfilms: I'm not sure if Alex is using hyperbole here, or if he really has the scoop on Islam, but there are rumors about some of the more radical sects of Islam that tell their faithful that if you die for your religion (i.e. through suicide bombing) you get a free ticket to heaven and a bunch of virgins. This is commonly sited as the reason a lot of Muslim radicals have the guts and conviction to do something like that, and whether it is truly what they believe or not, I don't know (haven't studied the subject enough).
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May The Bird Of Paradise Fly Up Your Nose
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As to ideals, here are my naieve views:
No one has the right to take the life of another - they did not give it, it does not belong to them (yes, even the mother is included here).
No one has the right to take their own life. When people are perfectly rational and decide there is no point in living, then maybe, but as long as we are ruled by emotion, never. There is never anyone who is so worthless, even to their own self, that their life is better off being extinguished - there are only those who mistakenly think so, and act wrongly because of it.
I cannot respect suicide bombing as a noble effort of a person with conviction. As children of Abraham, the Muslims especially should understand (in spirit, if not literally) that God has created all people in love, even if said people don't hold the same beliefs. Can you fault a person, like myself, who never had access to the Muslim faith as a child? Just as I don't fault those who were never given opportunity to hear about Christ for not being Christian.
And I have to agree with Alex's original point: it isn't right, but when the Pakistanis are sending off their own men to die, just for the sake of killing as many other people as possible, there is no way that the world is going to stop and look at the death of one of their soldiers with as much sympathy as in the case of the Israelis. Why? Well, honestly, I would find myself saying "well, there's one more who won't be killing ten, twenty, one-hundred people with the (particularly effective) tactic of suicide bombing. what a relief for myself and for others." Even if the typical person cares more about his own safety than that of others, you can pretty much guarantee that he isn't cheering to hear about mass death and destruction in any form - or at least I hope not. And the Israelis, who may be doing just as much killing, SEEM better in that they at least respect the lives of their soldiers and want to keep them around (I know the afterlife promises and communion with God are sought after because they are better than being in this world, but the Pakistanis still just look like they don't care about their own soldiers).
My (naieve) two cents.
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May The Bird Of Paradise Fly Up Your Nose
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Most religions offer a reward after you die if you comply now.
The promise of a reward in an afterlife pretty much dilutes our actions here on earth to nothing more than a quid pro quo.
I may want an extended life guarantee, I just don't think doing the right thing now should be coaxed from humanity via the sugar coating of afterlife bliss.
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and now the thread comes full circle (IMHO) back to how all religion is self-serving.
thank you, alex.
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Ah, but it is self-serving for a greater good, the preservation of our species, kinda sortof.
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alex....
i haven't insulted your intelligence...
so why do you do it to yourself?
if all that were true, would it really be 'self-serving'?
c'mon.
you know better than that.
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Isn't it possible that without religion there might have been a scant period of time in our history where civilization might have died off without it?
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no.
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i'm with shats on that one.
no.
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PostModern Pollution
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*and so, she turns the page*
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I think there may have a moment in time where without religion civilization might have been threatened with extinction.
And some radical sects of Islam claim that if you die honorably, vis a vie suicide bombing, you get 72 virgins who turn into virgins at the start of every day.
Luna, did you mean Palestineans rather than Pakistanis?
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I read an explanation of why the Palestineans are suicide bombing, it is in the current issue of Time Magazine.
The explanation has to do with the concept of shame. Palestineans feel shame when they see Israel Tanks and the Israeli military with dominion over them, occupying land that they consider their own homeland.
I was still left unconvinced for the following reason. Tell me how a Palestinean life is thwarted and subverted from what it should be. Tell me how you are discriminated against.
Without evidence of discrimation or repression, the "shame" argumment becomes suspect. Nothing more than an excuse to not try to improve ones lot in life...
...it's as if their world would magically be a better place if instead of Israel military in their midst, it was corrupt government officials "governing" them.
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simple....
shame is a result of slave morality.
slave morality is the consequence of religion.
thus...
no religion...no shame.
