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Hey everyone, I went to the track this weekend for the first time this year. My best run was [email protected] That was with slicks with too much air in them and full interior with the 6psi pully.
I would have been able to go quicker but I think my walbro pump(not high pressure) is not doing a very good job. At about 6k in 4th gear my car would struggle terribly, it felt almost like I was hitting the rev limiter. I would have to let off and just coast through the traps.
Anyway, I think I need a bigger fuel pump, and I was wondering what you guys would recomend. Im not to happy with walbro pumps right now. Is my only choice the endyn one, or is there another brand (cheaper) that could push enough fuel pressure to do the job?
Thanks
Mike
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Nice time!! Have you looked at Holley fuel pumps? I don't know anything about fuel pumps, but I know they make 'em.
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the endyn one is only 210. Not a bad price for a pump that works so well. You can also try the High Output High pressure Walbro, but if you pay a little more you could get a reliable pump that will never need replacing. It also isnt that hard to install in tank. This is the slightly smaller bosch pump that i have, not the one that Endyn has sold for a year. They recently started selling these. Sorry i dont have the part number, i forgot to write it down, doh'
Steve
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Im not worried about install.. On Endyns site it says that the pump is 275, thats a little pricey for me. If nothing else is cheaper I just may end up getting the HO walbro I guess.I just need something that can handle pressure's around or over 110 psi with out fizzling out. If I cant find anything I suppose, Im gonna need to get larger injectors instead, but I really dont want to spend that kind of money right now. Im too cheap!
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at 8psi I'm really wishing I had larger injectors...if you really plan on running 10psi, you BEST get yourself some bigger injectors...depending on how big you go on them, you may lower the fuel pressure enough that you can still use the pump you have...think the one you have takes a dive at about 85psi, with 310cc injectors you can back the pressure down to about 75psi...help me out here Lundgren...
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1998' 4dr GSR, 8psi JRSC w/hand ported plenum, Walbro HP fuel pump, valves set to .005i/.006e, MSD BTM, B&M CommandFlo regulator(working it out), stock intake w/resinator cut off at fenderwell for "cool air", Greddy sp exhaust, Tokico Illumina 5-ways, Neuspeed springs(sux!), Skunkworks 22mm rear swaybar, ES motor mounts and front swaybar bushings, Yokohama AVS 205/50/15's, Metal Master brake pads(KVR Carbon Fibre pads sitting on work bench) ,B&M fuel pressure gauge, Autometer sport comp A/F gauge in dimmer location...
YLW 00' ITR #00-1011 with AEM CAI and 143db triple air horns
Honest officer, I had no idea how fast I was going...the speedometer only gos to 150...
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Hey, what other mods do u have to go along with the 6 psi setup if u have any. Cuz I need more stuff to go along with my setup because I wanna beat up a cobra and Z-28.
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Im not running 10psi.. Im only running 6, I need a pump that can sustain 110 psi fuel pressures without dying on me. The reason my fuel pressure is so high with 6 psi is because I'm running Nitrous too. I realize I can lower the fuel pressure with larger injectors, but Im looking for a more cost effective solution right now. Thanks
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Tell me if I'm crazy here but isn't 110psi a little extreme? I thought the idea was to size injectors so that your fuel pressure should be in the ball park of 50 psi. I understand not having the cash for larger injectors but won't running such high pressure destroy your existing injectors eventually?
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Im also running a 25 shot. I know all about injectors, regulators etc. so telling me that I need them is a lost cause, I already know this. Plus, Im broke so that it not really an option at the moment.
Yes 110 fuel pressure is high, but it is what the 8-10 psi guys are running all the time I believe. The only time I need that kind of pressure is when Im at the track running the NOS. Other then that I just run the basic 6psi setup the rest of the time. So its not like I see fuel pressure that high on a daily basis, more like once or twice a month!
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BigKat, you mentioned getting an OEM pump from a different car.. Makes me think If I could get some larger injectors from another OEM car like prelude/DSM/Chevy etc. whatever. I dont mind doing some splicing, if that would work and wouldnt cost me an arm and a leg I may go that route. Does anyone know if any other larger OEM injectors are compatible with ours?
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Yeah you don't want to hear it, but running 100+ psi of fuel pressure is insane. Injector longetivity is a problem but the last thing you want to happen is for them to freeze up during one of your WOT full-boost track runs. Bye, bye engine. And that's probably what's happening when you feel your car losing power. Your fuel pump's providing the pressure but the injectors lock up so you're not getting the fuel flow you need. Like some people suggested, swap in some larger injectors and back off the f/p.
And as for other injectors fitting on your car, I have a 93 Civic and am running oe GSR injectors. They were a direct swap. I also know for a fact that the Lude's injectors will also fit on my car with a little splicing. So it would reason that the Lude's injectors would also work on your Teg. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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GReddy turbo'd and intercooled D16Z6. Currently blown.
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Yeah, the '93 Lude injectors should be 310cc. I'm sending mine from my H22 hybrid to RC to be cleaned and balanced in a week or so. They might work with your Teg.
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'95 Civic EX w/ JRSC(6psi)& Nos 25 shot,JG TB, Stillen 4-1 header, HKS 2 1/4 exh., '93 Lude VTEC fuel pump,MSD 6 BTM w/ Blaster SS Coil,APEXi SAFC, Autometer Boost/ Air-Fuel gauges, Centerforce D/F clutch, Act lighten flywheel, Eibach Pro's,Tokico Illuminas,Tenzo Front/ Rear Strut tower braces Best et: 13.98@101mph w/NOS
IN PROCESS:1992 5g VX Hatch w/ 93 Prelude 2.2L Vtec(donor)
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I like that prelude injector Idea, I'll have to look into that for sure. Anybody know if they fit? and what cc's they were for different years?
Also, if I get the prelude injectors, do you think a fuel contoller like a v-afc would do the trick, or should I just go for a different fpr? Or better yet, is the jr fpr able to adjust low enough so I wont be running excessivly rich.
Thanks
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I was trying to get a straight answer on the prelude injectors myself, but could never get anyone to tell me for sure...RC danced around the subject as did everyone else that had something to sell me...guess I need to find someone who HAS used them. My thing is that I know they will physically fit(minus conectors) but will the impedance etc. be off...will they be compatible electronically?
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1998' 4dr GSR, 8psi JRSC w/hand ported plenum, Walbro HP fuel pump, valves set to .005i/.006e, MSD BTM, B&M CommandFlo regulator(working it out), stock intake w/resinator cut off at fenderwell for "cool air", Greddy sp exhaust, Tokico Illumina 5-ways, Neuspeed springs(sux!), Skunkworks 22mm rear swaybar, ES motor mounts and front swaybar bushings, Yokohama AVS 205/50/15's, Metal Master brake pads(KVR Carbon Fibre pads sitting on work bench) ,B&M fuel pressure gauge, Autometer sport comp A/F gauge in dimmer location...
YLW 00' ITR #00-1011 with AEM CAI and 143db triple air horns
Honest officer, I had no idea how fast I was going...the speedometer only gos to 150...
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ps I have some 370cc mitsu VR4 injectors that atomize very well but in the same boat as the ludes...
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1998' 4dr GSR, 8psi JRSC w/hand ported plenum, Walbro HP fuel pump, valves set to .005i/.006e, MSD BTM, B&M CommandFlo regulator(working it out), stock intake w/resinator cut off at fenderwell for "cool air", Greddy sp exhaust, Tokico Illumina 5-ways, Neuspeed springs(sux!), Skunkworks 22mm rear swaybar, ES motor mounts and front swaybar bushings, Yokohama AVS 205/50/15's, Metal Master brake pads(KVR Carbon Fibre pads sitting on work bench) ,B&M fuel pressure gauge, Autometer sport comp A/F gauge in dimmer location...
YLW 00' ITR #00-1011 with AEM CAI and 143db triple air horns
Honest officer, I had no idea how fast I was going...the speedometer only gos to 150...
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What shot are you running? I'm running a 25 shot(NOS Sneaky Pete kit) on my SC'd D16z6 set-up. You may be able to find a 3000GT or Supra turbo Fuel pump cheaper. But as Zeus has said and others will tell you, upgrading your injectors to 310cc and adding a Cartech FMU will help out your fuel pressure delima. A few are having success with the above set-up. Good luck
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'95 Civic EX w/ JRSC(6psi)& Nos 25 shot,JG TB, Stillen 4-1 header, HKS 2 1/4 exh., '93 Lude VTEC fuel pump,MSD 6 BTM w/ Blaster SS Coil,APEXi SAFC, Autometer Boost/ Air-Fuel gauges, Centerforce D/F clutch, Act lighten flywheel, Eibach Pro's,Tokico Illuminas,Tenzo Front/ Rear Strut tower braces Best et: 13.98@101mph w/NOS
IN PROCESS:1992 5g VX Hatch w/ 93 Prelude 2.2L Vtec(donor)
[This message has been edited by Bigkat (edited May 03, 2000).]
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Bigkat and revHigh- do you see boost pressures rise or detect detonation while using the gas? With your times being so dan low when on the juice if I can get low 13's on my setup now (not sure yet but track opens in the next two weeks) I could lay down some serious maybe mid 12 passes http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I can get the setup for low buck and with the new fuel upgrades coming I can take care of the a/f situation. The reason I asked about boost pressure rising is because I guess you would either have to crank the fmu up at the track (run richer then usual) or the fmu would raise it accordingly. Also, where is your jet located at? right behind the filter or further up the intake stream? Thanks for the help.
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98 GS-scR w/ 8psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Airmass header, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S safeguard, Ground Controls and KYB AGX's, and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down and soon to go on a Carbon Fiber diet,RC 310 steriods,and new sticky foot wear of the 555R type
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Mr Rogers - I've have yet to have any real problems with running NOS. I think my old pumps were being over worked in my set-up. I noticed that I was running a little lean above 5000rpms. Since I installed the Lude pump, I have not used NOS(too lazy to refill bottle). I have the 1st gen Apexi AFC that I normally use to make my fuel adjustments. It helps out a lot, though there are probably some spots that are running lean that I can not adjust(rpm increaments are too large). Hopefully, I will pick-up the new version soon.
Oh yeah...... my jet is located about an 3" away from the filter. Some people run it directly at the filter, but I personally have had better results allowing air to get moving in the intake.
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'95 Civic EX w/ JRSC(6psi)& Nos 25 shot,JG TB, Stillen 4-1 header, HKS 2 1/4 exh., '93 Lude VTEC fuel pump,MSD 6 BTM w/ Blaster SS Coil,APEXi SAFC, Autometer Boost/ Air-Fuel gauges, Centerforce D/F clutch, Act lighten flywheel, Eibach Pro's,Tokico Illuminas,Tenzo Front/ Rear Strut tower braces Best et: 13.98@101mph w/NOS
IN PROCESS:1992 5g VX Hatch w/ 93 Prelude 2.2L Vtec(donor)
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It's probably over-kill for most of us, but my brother will soon have a Direct Port Wet Shot NOS system with RPM controller and jets to switch from 50-100 shots.
It's mostly un-installed, but not quite ready for sale.
Greg
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Ive been talking with Jerome Soh, and he says that 95 prelude injectors will work, but I do have to splice them in. These injectors are either 290cc or 330cc supposedly, I havent gotton a straight answer on that. I wish someone new what size injectors the prelude ones were! I may end up getting the injectors and being a ginnie pig I guess. Im gonna go to the track again tomorrow I think to make sure that fuel is my problem. I was also real low on gas at the time of the run so there is a chance that I was just running out of gas, but I want to make sure.
Mr. Rogers, I was running 13.5 without the nitrous, but I know I can go faster then that for sure. I would have had a lot better time with the nitrous if I wasnt having fuel problems. I picked up 2mph using the NOS so I can definetly go faster then 13.4. You shouldnt have to raise the pressure on the JR FPR. I have a NOS FPR that raises fuel pressure only when the nitrous is running.
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How do the NOS FPR work? The JR unit soon to be replaced nd the Cartech work off of the vac. and pressures seen in the manifold. If the NOS riser does the same thing then I would be in bussiness, but do the "BOOST" pressures actually rise? Thanks again guys http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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98 GS-scR w/ 8psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Airmass header, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S safeguard, Ground Controls and KYB AGX's, and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down and soon to go on a Carbon Fiber diet,RC 310 steriods,and new sticky foot wear of the 555R type
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The NOS FPR blows air into one of the Vacum lines that goes to the regulator. When the regulaor sees this it thinks there is more boost, effectivly raising fuel pressure.
Of course you dont want to have your boost gauge tee'd into the same line or it will read really high.
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Cool, so the must haves to run it is the kit, proper jet, microswitch and/or push button, and the NOS fpr? I think I might do a purge kit too just to intimidate those Domestic guys at the track http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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98 GS-scR w/ 8psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Airmass header, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S safeguard, Ground Controls and KYB AGX's, and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down and soon to go on a Carbon Fiber diet,RC 310 steriods,and new sticky foot wear of the 555R type
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revHIGH, I do believe that the injectors on the 95 VTEC preludes are 330cc...matter of fact, I think that was about the only thing I did get out of RC...I'm thinking of trying them also if I can find a set I can afford after all I've bought as of late...
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1998' 4dr GSR, 8psi JRSC w/hand ported plenum, Walbro HP fuel pump, valves set to .005i/.006e, MSD BTM, B&M CommandFlo regulator(working it out), stock intake w/resinator cut off at fenderwell for "cool air", Greddy sp exhaust, Tokico Illumina 5-ways, Neuspeed springs(sux!), Skunkworks 22mm rear swaybar, ES motor mounts and front swaybar bushings, Yokohama AVS 205/50/15's, Metal Master brake pads(KVR Carbon Fibre pads sitting on work bench) ,B&M fuel pressure gauge, Autometer sport comp A/F gauge in dimmer location...
YLW 00' ITR #00-1011 with AEM CAI and 143db triple air horns
Honest officer, I had no idea how fast I was going...the speedometer only gos to 150...
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by revHIGH:
Ive been talking with Jerome Soh, and he says that 95 prelude injectors will work, but I do have to splice them in. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have to intervene here, Prelude injectors will NOT work in integras or civics. Prelude injectors use Peak and hold injectors(characterized by injector resistor box). Civic/integ ones are Saturated. Also remember obd1 and obd2 injectors have different plugs on them. Jerome is wrong.
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Lude injectors are the same as teg's in regards to flow, they just have different pulse widths. With all the money we have spent on our rides, you would think another 380 bucks for injectors really wouldnt matter, he he he ;-)
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spent over $4k this year on cars...copper is starting to count...
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1998' 4dr GSR, 8psi JRSC w/hand ported plenum, Walbro HP fuel pump, valves set to .005i/.006e, MSD BTM, B&M CommandFlo regulator(working it out), stock intake w/resinator cut off at fenderwell for "cool air", Greddy sp exhaust, Tokico Illumina 5-ways, Neuspeed springs(sux!), Skunkworks 22mm rear swaybar, ES motor mounts and front swaybar bushings, Yokohama AVS 205/50/15's, Metal Master brake pads(KVR Carbon Fibre pads sitting on work bench) ,B&M fuel pressure gauge, Autometer sport comp A/F gauge in dimmer location...
YLW 00' ITR #00-1011 with AEM CAI and 143db triple air horns
Honest officer, I had no idea how fast I was going...the speedometer only gos to 150...
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So with the NOS fuel pressure riser, does it raise fuel pressure over and above the JR unit? The pressure is already up there and I don't know if it would "Really" signal for the JR unit to raise the pressure more. You guys know what I mean?
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98 GS-scR w/ 8psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Airmass header, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S safeguard, Ground Controls and KYB AGX's, and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down and soon to go on a Carbon Fiber diet,RC 310 steriods,and new sticky foot wear of the 555R type
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Actually, I know a guy running spliced Lude injectors on his Civic without any problems. If we were running high-impedance injectors using a low-impedance driver, there might be concern about damaging the ecu. But since he's running low-impedance injectors on a high-impedance driver, we figured there'd be no problem. And none so far except a really crappy idle which he plans to fix with the addition of a fuel controller.
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GReddy turbo'd and intercooled D16Z6. Currently blown.
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Mr Rogers,
yes it does raise fuel pressure above what it is with the JR FPR. But you need to set up the NOS FPR to"blow" into the OEM FPR for this to occur. Im not sure if it would work blowing into the JR FPR, but I know it works on the OEM FPR.
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Just to clarify...
'92-96 H22A (Prelude 2.2L VTEC) injectors are 330cc.
'97+ H22A injectors are 290cc.
They DO NOT plug into a Civic/Integra wiring harness. You must cut and splice in the Prelude plugs to your harness.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
