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Ok guys, a friend of mine is going to get me rollin in this class, he and I are going to work something out, he is starting a shop this summer and he already has a name for himself, he also wants me to get you guys in on some crazy ass deals!!! I'm talking super cheap deals, I can't let the cat out of the bag for quite a while, but look for me running low 12's this summer, perhaps 11's in my teg, and ruling super 4 this summer!
Man, and I have a definite "evil grin" as I am writing this post!!!!!!!
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Ruling Super 4 CROM?? Hmmmmm maybe I haven't been posting enough bro http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif How about some really kick ass competition in the Southeast http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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13.24 on a smokin' motor can't be bad!?!
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Dont forget you will also be running against the motor swaps also....If im not mistaken Mark Brauning is in the 11's with his Civic Hatch...I know there a few other really fast all motor cars out there...this will be a lot of competition in this class..the motor swaps will be tough to beat!!...especially with the weight advantage over the Integra
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John
B18C1 powered Civic EX Coupe
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Not against hybrids http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif Super 4 is original motor with a charger. Hybrid is considered Power 4 because it includes a engine swap with a charger http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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Cars with just a motor swap are allowed to compete in this class as well.
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Marc
1997 Civic EX, Supercharged
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1fstGSR...I was talking about cars with just motor swaps...not motor swap and charger....check out the NIRA rules again and you will see that you will be running up against the cars with a motor swap....there are a number of guys that have just swaps and are very fast...like Mark Brauning with his ALL MOTOR civic that runs 11's....there will be alot of competiton in that class
....you will have to run with these guys
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John
B18C1 powered Civic EX Coupe
[This message has been edited by CivicR (edited February 24, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by CivicR (edited February 24, 2000).]
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the Super 4 class is for all (streetable) hybrids or s/c cars.
hmmm, maybe they think the s/c cars are slow ... j/k
Power 4 is for anythign with turbo/4 cyl and/or NOS
11 sec Integra, I'm yet to see one, thats a very big challenge, it would be nice to see it though.
Greg-
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94 Civic FROG
435HP/289 lb-ft. torque.
11 Second Club.
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Hey Greg. What about Tony Fuchs. He is in the 10's. He runs a G2 Teg. And what about the Skunkworks Teg. All motor 10's. Or the Rev-Hard teg in the tens. What about my 91 teg in the nines. Oh wait that's just me imagining things again. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
We are looking to hit 11s this summer in the ol' G2.
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91 Integra JG Pro Series B18B(new turbo soon)
Speed Tek Motorsports Wichita, KS
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Look like if endyn can get their shit together they can put some pretty competitive cars in that class. Maybe this will be the encouragement they need.
Adam: you really think you can touch 11's on street tires man? You're gonna need some special street tires or you'll be spinning the whole way down the track!
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I HAVE SPECIAL TIRES ALREADY, HE HE HE HE HE!!!!!!!!!!! Dont worry, I will hit 11's!
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Super 4 is regulated to Supercharged, same motor same year cars, or Engine swapped cars with engines only available for cars that came with that engine, so that means Supercharged Civic Si's, GS-R's, Preludes, etc.....OR All motor Civic Si's, GS-Rs, etc.....and you are not allowed to strip your car, gut it etc...this is a completely street legal class, NO SLICKS!!!!!!! [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes you can have a motor swap in that class...such as a B18C1 powered Civic...that is legal...read the rules completely!!....Greg(The Frog) and I have already stated that!!
As posted on the Nira website:
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Engine: Reserved for 4 cylinder entries equipped with a motor swap or with a supercharger, not both. A "Motor swap" is defined as any motor that was NOT in the vehicle as delivered by the factory or available as an option on US sold vehicles&?;.engine size and combination must have been available for that year, make and model of car.
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John
B18C1 powered Civic EX Coupe
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tyler,
Tony Fuchs, Skunk, Chris Rado and all the "Integ boys" never actualyl drive their car to the track, run 11's then drive back home, i.e. they're full race cars ... similar to what most of us do ... so my point was more or less seeing a guy with an 11 sec street Teg, thats all http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
It's very tough when you consider a street teg with a weight (w/ driver) or around 2700 lbs... assume about a good 115-120MPH trap for consistent 11 second runs, so thats about a 350HP car ... although it's very possible, I've hardly seen one thats all, I know one person who ran an 11.9 about a year ago but never ran again and thats about it.
Then there is the traction issue like Phantom and CivicR is saying ... figure street drags will buy you a 2.0 60' time ... that would have to give you a 450HP Integ to run you an 11.9 e/t ... the FWD issue is just a big drawback, thats all. Turbo Tito at least has RWD, engine sititng onthe rear wheels and Nitto street tires about 3 feet wide (sarcastic) so he gets traction ... too much traction with those 3 gear wheelies he pulls.
Greg-
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Do you guys ever read? And besides, Mark B is the one who told me about super 4(last night by the way)....He is in a class of his own, Super 4 is regulated to Supercharged, same motor same year cars, or Engine swapped cars with engines only available for cars that came with that engine, so that means Supercharged Civic Si's, GS-R's, Preludes, etc.....OR All motor Civic Si's, GS-Rs, etc.....and you are not allowed to strip your car, gut it etc...this is a completely street legal class, NO SLICKS!!!!!!! So, no my friend Mark B isnt in this class, besides this isnt one of the big pay off classes, his class is all motor whatever the fuck you wanna do class, which means run what ya brung, ALL motor of course......We shall see WILL, I have plans! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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A "Motor swap" is defined as any motor that was NOT in the vehicle as delivered by the factory or available as an option on US sold
vehicles&?;.engine size and combination must have been available for that year, make and model of car.
The engine had to have been available for that car, so a B18C was not available for a Civic. So you can't have a B18C in this class, just B16A2 etc.....
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CROM: I think you're missing the point. You can have a supercharger OR an engine swap, but not both.
So a b18c powered Civic is legit in this class. A b18c supercharged Civic is not.
Greg Holden
BTW: Where does "CROM" come from?
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Thank you Holden.....I have been saying that the whole time
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John
B18C1 powered Civic EX Coupe
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Hey guys,
CROM is definately right on this one. The same type of races in the V8 classes defines the same type of thing. No 351 windsor motors in a stock GT class body just the 302 stock motor or the V6. If you take a 92-95 civic body and ask all the different available motors that came in the car in those years the best motor available is the SOHC 1.6l motor with 125 HP. When they say you can swap the motor they mean if you had the dinky 102HP CX/DX motor in the car you can swap it for the EX style motor that was available in the SI. If you think I am wrong ask anyone in the NIRA rules committee and they will tell you the same. besides you said it yourself "engine size and combination must have been available for that year, make and model of car"
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13.24 on a smokin' motor can't be bad!?!
[This message has been edited by 1fstGSR (edited February 25, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by 1fstGSR (edited February 25, 2000).]
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So then if thats true...all the guys with GSR motors in there Civics will have to run in the Power4 class...thats crazy!!...if thats really the case NIRA will be losing alot of entries at all of there races...because nobody is going to want to race againt a turboed car with a swap? there has to be more to this whole class...??
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John
B18C1 powered Civic EX Coupe
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On a re-read of the quoted rule, I must admit my stupid mistake. I was sneaking peaks at work http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif and didn't read it well enough.
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THANK GOD, you guys finally realized your mistake, and remember, I could have flamed the hell out of you guys for saying I was wrong, when in fact I know that it was right, but I am a nice, mature guy! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
THANK YOU WILL http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
Not that my friend isnt good buds with the NIRA president or anything.....
And you wonder why I called you amateurs ;-)
And no, hybriders with integra engines in their civics can not run this class!!!! So needless to say, Supercharged cars should rein supreme!
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That is why it is called the "Super 4" series, not the hybrid 4 or the All-motor 4 http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif Anyway I just want all us boys on the board to really kick butt when next season starts http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif Hey its all about goin fast and I'm for more speed for everyone http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Will
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13.24 on a smokin' motor can't be bad!?!
[This message has been edited by 1fstGSR (edited February 25, 2000).]
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whats this, i see no west in ur post jrcivic, is this a plot against the west??jk jotech took the fastest unibody from us. that would be dope though a 11 sec daily teg, its going to be butt hard, but good luck.
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im with greg on this one, good luck on a daily driven 11 sec integra SC, the only 2 people i knew of with 11 sec daily driven tegs were nathan and the turbo mags gen2 teg. by the way they were both turbo, striped, and making over 400 at wheel
[This message has been edited by gsr98 (edited February 26, 2000).]
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I want all of you doubters to keep one little word in the back of your mind... so when you see 11 second timeslips from a daily driven Teg begin to appear in the East, the South, and the Midwest... it will remind you !!!
The word is "BLACKBIRD"...
The plan is 11 sec. or die !!! I will accept nothing less.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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I hate to spoil it, but there is a daily driven 11 second Integra, with a fully built, turbocharged B18C in Houston. Full bottom end with a GTP Race Head (GTP = Galant Technical Performance of Houston). Full bodied. It's been around since late '98. I saw it run last Spring.
Probably wasn't all that fun to drive around town, the turbo had a 4" inlet! Mad lag. But it was really fast. Complete 3.5" exhaust.
Stuff kept breaking through... Nothing to serious, had to get new axles/CV joints, etc.
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Ryan Earl
'99 Turbo SH
NTPOG - North Texas Prelude Owners Group
My Page
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out here on the west coast there are many daily driven 11sec. full interior Integs. Alot of them you don't read too much about because there are so many fast cars running at the races that 11's are nothin now. I was at a race in Pomona and the cutoff for the quick XVI was 11.0sec! In our car club we have 1 gen2 Integ runnin high 11's and he drives his car everyday to and from work. He doesn't compete in the quik 8 or quik 16 because his car is too heavy but he is making alot of power. I too will be doing 11's this year and I won't be guttin my interior.
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Yup... 11 second Integra is definitely doable and has done many times before. I hope to hit 11s sometimes in the next two years (shortly after I graduate http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif). I don't know of any daily driven 11second Preludes. In fact, there are only a hand full of daily driven 12 second ones (at least 5th gen) that I know of.
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Ryan Earl
'99 Turbo SH
NTPOG - North Texas Prelude Owners Group
My Page
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Fellas, you are missing the real "Headline" here... there are many 11 sec. daily drivers around this country... and as stated, have been for some time. All of these cars have one thing in common: it is called a TURBO !!! We will be doing this feat with a SUPERCHARGER, and that is what will set us apart.
The reason that we will be focusing our appearances on the East Coast is that we do not get the recognition over here that we deserve in this industry... Cali and Texas seem to get all of the attention. I want people to know that there are good tuners on the East as well.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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Where are the races going to be at? I live in the Northwest area and would like to go to one of theses events but do not know the dates and place?
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Heretic,
The 11sec teg you are talking about is/was the gold colored one...the guys name was something Williams I think? Yes/no.
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1998' 4dr GSR, 8psi JRSC w/hand ported plenum, Walbro HP fuel pump, valves set to .005i/.006e, MSD BTM, B&M CommandFlo regulator(working it out), stock intake w/resinator cut off at fenderwell for "cool air", Greddy sp exhaust, Tokico Illumina 5-ways, Neuspeed springs(sux!), Skunkworks 22mm rear swaybar, ES motor mounts and front swaybar bushings, Yokohama AVS 205/50/15's, Metal Master brake pads(KVR Carbon Fibre pads sitting on work bench) ,B&M fuel pressure gauge, Autometer sport comp A/F gauge in dimmer location...
Honest officer, I had no idea how fast I was going...the speedometer only gos to 150...
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JRCivic: Speed is speed. For some reason you have a hard-on for superchargers and want to do it a harder way, whatever, more power to you. SCs are inherently less capable than turbos and the fact that someone might be able to finally build an 11 second street Integra with a SC sorta just begs the question, "Why bother playing catch up if you can't pass?" If you built a 9 sec supercharged race car, that'd catch my eye since you've effectively used FI technology 30 years less advanced to do it.
The ultimate form of FI ever was back in the mid-80s when 1.3L F1 engines were making in excess of 1500HP. Guess what these unrestricted engines used?
Zeus: It might have been. It was the Apex Racing one. They ended up going out of business though I think. Too many suits or something. LOL. Kept breaking shit. So hard to find a good performance shop huh? I think that car might have hit high 10s too.
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Ryan Earl
'99 Turbo SH
NTPOG - North Texas Prelude Owners Group
My Page
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to Zues
"Speed is speed. For some reason you have a hard-on for superchargers and want to do it a harder way"
Isn't that one of the reasons we have 4 cylinder cars???? So when we go fast it is because of good tuning and product selection.
Otherwise....we could all just buy big v-8 monsters and get crazy amounts of horsepower out of them...
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Less advanced technology??? Heretic is under the assumption that any of this technology is old. Most of the stuff we deal with on a daily basis is less than 125 years old. Fine, call the gasoline powered internal combustion engine old tech and get something new. People have played around with belt-fed and exhaust-fed compressors for almost the same amount of time. A turbo is not higher tech than a supercharger. These are the kinds of arguments that don't solve anything, arguing over which type of forced induction is "newer technology". Both types have their benefitsd and their detriments.
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I am making $150-200 a month, just for surfing the net!!!
Find out how you can do the same at VTeCno's Get Paid to Surf Site!
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Heretic, I think that I speak for most of us here when I say that we built these cars to be different... as you said "Why go through all of this trouble to play catch-up". Well, if we all thought this, we would build a really fast Z-28 or Mustang for a whole lot less money than we spent on our Imports. I like the "underdog" ideal... David beating Goliath... and being different is what sets us apart from the rest.
Now, be honest. Do you think I will get more people to pay attention to me by running in the 10's with a Turbo FWD car or with a JRSC car ???
Setting trends brings you the spotlight.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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Heretic, keep in mind Endyn and Magneson are working on SC's that rival the efficiency that Turbos have. We can generate boost with less heat although we have to give a little power to the parasitic drag. I'm just tossing out some information.
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Silvino Orozco
'97 Integra GS-R w/JRSC (8 PSI), DC 4-2-1 Ceramic Headers, Walboro 255lph High pressure fuel pump , AEM Cold air intake, Powerstop rotors/Axxis Metal Master brake pads, A'PEXi Dunk Exhaust, J&S Safeguard unit,NeuSpeed rear Swaybar, Eibach Springs, Clutch Masters Stage III clutch (installing soon), AEM cam gears (installing soon), Energy Suspension motor mounts (installing soon)
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i have a few comments on this thread.
1. taking out 4-600lbs by doing a hybrid is just a good as having a power adder and adding a turbo or SC to that application would put you out of Super 4.
2. The SC (at this point) can't compete against a hybrid application(in my opinion) in Super 4...and it eliminates you from comp 4.
3. This last part of the thread about the SC being different and thats why your doing it...reminds me of the SC is the cheaper option over NA. Guys...the SC at this point is stuck in the middle between 2 other options at the tracks...and i could be wrong...but i don't see it winning the Super4, Pro 4 or non stock Autox/road racing courses. please tell me i'm wrong...i'm open to comment.
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Lip
94' GSR-R?, low 13's NA and counting down. 12's in da Spring or bust!!
[This message has been edited by Lip (edited February 29, 2000).]
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But in Super 4 the supercharged cars will rain supreme, I have never seen an all motor anything run 12's(or low 13's for that matter) without slicks, so those all motor guys are screwed, and besides they have their cars gutted and are illegal in this class. The only cars that will come close are some preludes and tegs that have tons of motor work done, one guy comes to mind in a prelude that runs low 13's, high 12's but I am not sure if he is legal or not.....this class will come down to a supercharged car that is not very streetable but looks it and is running 10 psi of boost or more. I say if you can run consistent 13.1's or high 12's you will kick everyones ass in this class. Actually, I am pretty confident I can run mid 13's with my new DOT Racing Tires and my straight pipe, I just need headers, the PMS tuned, cam gears, and that should get me even lower, but we shall see....I should just go 10 psi and try to hit mid 12's that ought to be fun fun fun!!!!
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CROM....I definately think you should do better than a mid 13 with that setup...In a friends Teg with full interior(including sub box)...with just the JRSC with a stock pulley and bolt-ons and a stock suspension...in 2 runs...I ran a 13.8...that was on Nitto drag radials...with more runs I could have probaly easily hit a mid 13....you should hit that easy....check out the MT ET drag tires..they are DOT aproved...they look like they will be the ticket to getting around the no slicks problem....by the way are you going to come down to Moroso in West Palm Beach for any of the races??
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John
B18C1 powered Civic EX Coupe
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Crom? your not going to be running against me(even though i'll be running 12's all motor)...super 4(once again)is SC vs hybrid for the most part. you really think you have a shot against a 1900lb crx with a B18c1, c5 or H22a? hahah...good luck. they run 12's all day every day. sweep? ain't happening bro...good luck.
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Lip
94' GSR-R?, low 13's NA and counting down. 12's in da Spring or bust!!
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Now that i read it again....they don't conclude what motorswap really is. first they say its anything that didn't come from the factory...or an option...then it says make, model and year appropriate. huh?
here it is:
>>A "Motor swap" is defined as any motor that was not in the vehicle as delivered by the factory or available as an option on US sold vehicles&?;.engine size and combination must have been available for that year, make and model of car. <<
person that wrote that was high. also...anyone notice the classes change daily? this is like the 3rd of 4th change i've seen.
also....why is the SC not competing against other FI applications? some handicap or something...i don't get it. that makes zero sense. turbo and NOS can be bolt on applications as well.
[This message has been edited by Lip (edited February 29, 2000).]
