questions

1. how was a plane able to crash into the pentagon an hour after the WTC towers were hit? shouldn't someone have thought to watch the radar for other planes making u-turns?

2. why would the terrorists leave so much evidence in the airport parking lot? the attacks were planned so well, it seems odd that they would forget to hide the evidence.

3. isn't it odd that almost immediately the attacks were said to 'look like the work of bin laden'? with all of the evidence quickly falling into place? we are not talking a parcel bomb here, nor even some fanatic driving a car bomb into a restaurant in jerusalem.

4. why were so many people allowed to make phone calls? did the terrorists just not pay attention?

5. what are the new actions taken by the airports doing to stop anything, i mean, what does a ban on curbside service have to do with stopping any of this?

wait, wait, i'm sorry. i don't know what i was thinking. of course bin laden's men did it. why would the pentagon expect to get hit? the attacks were in new york! yes, it all makes sense now. i was wrong.
yeah, those bin laden terroists were good, but they were no lee harvey oswald.

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the one who believes he is free, is bound by the strongest cage.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>wait, wait, i'm sorry. i don't know what i was thinking. of course bin laden's men did it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a maze, Gnosis. But there is no need to be sorry for anything you said. Neither do you please nor upset anyone by saying that bin Laden did it or not.
Your doubts are reasonable. But before burying these doubts, think about what you do this in favor of. I can understand your need, anybody's need to feel certain about who did it, in order for one to take action. But if one convinces oneself of someone else's guilt (despite the lack of unquestionable proof), then the case is not retaliation.

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Never onlyne

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gnosis_within:
wait, wait, i'm sorry. i don't know what i was thinking. of course bin laden's men did it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, I thought he was being sarcastic here.

And all the points are valid ones.

The question is... am I paranoid to believe what gnosis seems to be implying?

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Give me an edit button, and I'll moderate the WORLD!!!

The Neil & Neal Show

That's our eris! Shy, reserved, prone to pounding helpless arachnids... ~ 5Cats

Surely, this is not the place to discuss these matters. But I am sure you're sure what gnosis is implying. We all remember that the Arab perpetrator in Oklahoma turned out to be McVeigh. But of course Gnosis doesn't point out a 'militia' paranoid. Actually, he doesn't point out anyone. With so many US agents all over the world (also inside the US), it's hardly feasible to point out anyone.

...caddies in action


[This message has been edited by pplaverita (edited September 15, 2001).]

This is obviously more of a political discussion than a philosophical one but that really doesn't mean much. Over on The, which is allegedly a sports board, topics that aren't WTC related are being marked as such and there aren't that many of them.

That said there are philosophical issues related to the incident as well as to the issues of trust and distrust.

But the biggest one that comes to my mind is "What would you die for?" These were suicidal hijackers. I'm not saying people haven't died for this country but it just seems like a stretch that it would be done in this manner.

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[This message has been edited by Thread Killa (edited September 15, 2001).]

i have to agree that the fundamentalistic islamitic community still holds the monopoly on suicide attacks.
but they didn't all have to be suicidal.
take one or two per plane, with the rest holding the people in the back of the plane.


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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

btw, if you're really interested in history, take a look at the hashishi (or however you spell it) modernly named "the assasins".
that should give you an idea for the possibilities.

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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

I reluctantly have to agree with dumbass (gnosis_within) on this one. Things just don't quite add up.
I am quite well versed on this topic, so if anyone has any questions just jot them down in a post on this board. I will be sure to answer them ASAP! You can ask questions to Gnosis.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The Washington Post reports the Federal Aviation Administration alerted the national military air defense command that a hijacked jet was hurtling toward the Pentagon 12 minutes before the plane hit, but apparently no one relayed that message to Pentagon security so they didn't evacuate building.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i wonder who didn't relay the message, and who ordered them not to.



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the one who believes he is free, is bound by the strongest cage.

according to local and international news services, some of the terrorists took flying lessons in florida, where a dutchmen owns a flying company.
According to an interview with this man by dutch national television they requested emphasis on the flying itself, not the take-off and landings. Furthermore one of the two, who presumedly was the person behind two of the airplane hijacks and crashes had a real problem with authority etc..


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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

last friday i was listening to NPR and they mentioned:

since the oklahoma city bombing, the pentagon has been renovating its structure to prevent similar things from happening.
the reason why the pentagon didn't collapse like the WTC is because the area the plane hit was in the process of being renovated...whereas the rest of the structure had already been.

...interesting....




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General Philosophy

at least one of the 'terrorists' on board of the airplane was the father of several kids.

i wonder if some of them didn't know the full extent of the plan.

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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

Gnosis,

That was my bad on relaying the message...I had to pee really bad, sorry for any inconvenience my error may have caused.

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-- A defense official said two suspects may have attended U.S. military-run flight schools in Texas and Alabama.



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the one who believes he is free, is bound by the strongest cage.

oh lord...

(unfortunately?) i have to say that was funny.

to the gallows with me.

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General Philosophy

i was saving them for this occasion :P

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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

your mom's birthday is TODAY?!?!?!?!



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General Philosophy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>-- Saying associates of last week's hijackers may still be at large in the United States, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced Monday that federal agents would fly on commercial airlines, and repeated his plea for Congress to give law enforcement agencies expanded powers to tap phones, conduct searches and seize assets..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i read a book once about a government that had the power to do things like that....now what was it called?



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the one who believes he is free, is bound by the strongest cage.

when asked why men that were on a list of possible terrorists were able to do all of this fbi director, robert mueller, said,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is very difficult, quite often, to find somebody once they're in the country<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
why were they allowed in the country in the first place?
why didnt the fbi keep and eye on them?
there have been reports that some of them even went to u.s. military run flight schools, how could they miss that? doesnt the government pay attention to the names of
people that it is training?

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the one who believes he is free, is bound by the strongest cage.

my prof. said:

if bush is so damned christian, why wasn't the first thing out of his mouth,

"what would jesus do?"

it took 15 minutes for the class to settle back down.

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General Philosophy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
why were they allowed in the country in the first place?
why didnt the fbi keep and eye on them?
there have been reports that some of them even went to u.s. military run flight schools, how could they miss that? doesnt the government pay attention to the names of
people that it is training?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

manpower? too much trust in humans in general?
These guys lived in the us for about 4 years. Fully integrated, kids, wife, neighbours, car and a house in suburbia.
why watch those if you have other crimes to solve?

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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

I'll bring the rotten fruit http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

[This message has been edited by zelazny (edited September 17, 2001).]

so THATS whats been hidin' under your bed...

i know you talked about a funny smell...

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General Philosophy

it is against islamic* faith to kill innocents.
it is also against islamic faith to betray your guest.

funny...

guess taht shows which is more important in morality.

---------------------------------------------

*any?

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General Philosophy

hmm, now THIS is interesting
apparently someone has been speculating on the european markets just before the crash.
apparently using a technique called "going short".
It works as following.
It allows you to make high profits when there are spectacular drops by 'loaning' shares from someone. Then selling them on to someone else. As soon as the shareds plummet, they buy them back and return them to the owner.
On both the dutch and the german stock market there has been a huge huse of these around the crash
(like a tenfold of the amount of stocks in klm, the dutch airtravel company)


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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

i am not sure how to apply this information.

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General Philosophy

neither am i
but i get the strange idea that this might not have been purely religious, but it's all about the money.
Some bastard is probably counting his millions right now, laughing his ass of while he sees how mad the US is at arabs.

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Sure the universe is a great place, but if it wasn't here, no-one would miss it.

1. how was a plane able to crash into the pentagon an hour after the WTC towers were hit? shouldn't someone have thought to watch the radar for other planes making u-turns?
---well, it was able to crash because it had already taken off. the flight pattern did show up on a radar screen, but the u-turn was so fast that the flight tracker couldn't have done anything about it. basically, it crashed because it was just too late.

2. why would the terrorists leave so much evidence in the airport parking lot? the attacks were planned so well, it seems odd that they would forget to hide the evidence.
---well, you have to remember that they knew they were going to die, so it is not like any of it really mattered to them... who cares if they found out who did it...they were gonna be dead! besides, they left evidence behind so they could be implicated. they WANTED us to know they did it...i believe it was a deliberate act and a declaration of war.


3. isn't it odd that almost immediately the attacks were said to 'look like the work of bin laden'? with all of the evidence quickly falling into place? we are not talking a parcel bomb here, nor even some fanatic driving a car bomb into a restaurant in jerusalem.
---no...and fingers were pointed becuase bin laden has been so outspoken about his thoughts and actions. everyone knew he wanted those buildings down...everyone knows he hates us. of course people are gonna point right to him...and he knows it.

4. why were so many people allowed to make phone calls? did the terrorists just not pay attention?
---like i said, what did they care. they knew there wasnt enough time to actually stop the planes, so all the phone calls didnt matter. they knew the people were going to die...they knew they were going to be idenitified..and the phone calls just garunteed more publicity.

5. what are the new actions taken by the airports doing to stop anything, i mean, what does a ban on curbside service have to do with stopping any of this?
-well, when you curbside check in, your luggage does not get screened nearly as heavily as it does when you check in at the airport. stopping that is a big help. air marshals are supposedly on board (Although in civillian clothing)...cockpit doors are locked and many are planning to make them bulletproof and gernade proof in the next year. x-rays are much more complete (new machines at 150,000 a pop are being installed) and i.d's checked more often and thouroughly. there are tons of things they are doing right now.

wait, wait, i'm sorry. i don't know what i was thinking. of course bin laden's men did it. why would the pentagon expect to get hit? the attacks were in new york! yes, it all makes sense now. i was wrong.
yeah, those bin laden terroists were good, but they were no lee harvey oswald.
---that wasnt their objective.


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