-
Only a day away now. One swift evening and one sacred night. Then will be our ultimatum to Saddam, and will be our boys marching across sandy battlefields. Saddam will not leave. He will sacrifice his own people for his own glory and to resist George W. Bush. President Bush will do likewise, to resist the lawlessness of the other and his regime. Soldiers will march, pilots will fly, bombs will drop, and people, men women and children, will be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and die.
Only a day away now, and the graves are waiting. Such is the history of mankind, and such is our legacy to our children.
Only a day away now, and the world will change. May we be brave in our duty, swift in our mercy, and steadfast in our ideals. May we leave the battlefields to be forgotten, the graves to be remembered, and peace to be treasured. May this as well, be our legacy.
May your family be unscathed; may your sons and daughters be returned to you from harm?s way, and may we each witness the swift futility of the tyrant, the hopelessness of terror, the darkness of those who harbor hearts filled with hatred.
-
"swift in our mercy"
What mercy? Sorry Lon, I just don't believe that the end justifies the means. I pray for all those young ones who will just be doing their duty, like all those before them in so many conflicts.
-
Spot on, Lon...
I only hope this will delay any major WMD detonation on the American continents.
War is hell on earth...
scratchin' an itch...
The Dog
-
.... let slip the dogs of war!
What did you do with your boys, Lon, when they continually lied and defied you?
Did you threaten them repeatedly or kick their butts?
-
Well, it looks like I must be getting better in my postings. In just one here, I get blasted for being a warmonger by Carol52, and for being a peace monger by Pammy.
Serves me right! I'm a classic hypocrite and fence-straddler.
I don't like the idea of war. I'm more of a "leave 'em the hell alone" kind of guy when it comes to the dirty laundry of others. I envision a day when our resources are spent on education, medical care, poverty, or any of the many social ills we face in our societies. I don't like my tax monies spent in misguided global manipulation (no one mentions the fact that the US first gave Saddam strains of anthrax)
On the other hand, I live a life of freedom which has been forged and defended, like it or not, by wars. I believe in human rights, and I despise the hard-handed rule of a tyrant, the aimless violence of the terrorist. I would fight if injustice was done to my family, and that conviction somehow constrains me to fight when injustices are done to others.
I, at first, did oppose war with Iraq. But my stance has been reversed in the last few weeks. I have read testimonies of Iraqi expatriates of the atrocities of Saddam, looked again at the open and breathless mouths of Kurdish children killed by mustard gas. And, although it may have been contrived, I have seen the smiles on faces of refugees leaving Iraq. Smiles- as though they have hope for the future, even as they leave their homes and put themselves adrift in the winds of war.
In the end, I guess I agree with the leader of Italy. He called the war a "necessary tragedy". The die is cast, the tanks are moving, the bombs falling, and the best we can wish for is the end of this particular regime, the beginning of something better, and a resolute message to tyrants and terrorists of the future.
-
The key problem is that Bush and his administration failed to come up with a consistent message in the months and months that led up to this war.
Bush: Let in the inspectors or we go to WAR
Iraq: Um..okay
Bush: Uh, well, don't hassle the inspectors or we go to WAR
Iraq: okay, sure
Bush: Uh..well...let them go anywhere they want anytime they want or we go to WAR
Iraq: We don't really want-- oh okay, FINE.
Bush: Damn, okay, we want U2 spy planes everywhere or we go to WAR
Iraq: Oh c'mon that's--oh alright, jeez.
Bush: Crap, now what am I gonna--hey, you got some long range missles!! Destroy them or we go to WAR
Iraq: No way! These are our only protection against--oh, man, for cryin' out loud. Okay okay.
Bush: Grrrrr......Okay, that's it. You and your family are out of the country in 48 hours or we go to WAR...
Iraq: You're nuts, dude.
Bush: ...and even if you DO leave, we're going to WAR.
Iraq: Uhh..
Bush: Okay, now you asked for it. We're going to WAR!!!
Plus we still can't find any weapons of mass destruction even with spy satellites and spyplanes galore. We march over to the UN with crappy blurry photos of buildings that may have at one time been possible locations of what we think may have been used to create what we believe to be weapons of mass destruction. We loudly blare that they have ties to Al-Queda, we just can't find them right now, oh wait, no nevermind about Al-Queda, no wait, they DO have ties to Al-Queda, no ummm..... no they do. They do. Really, we mean it this time.
Saddam is a psycho and a jackass. I won't lose any sleep when he and his sons get their "reward." But, really, couldn't they have done a more convincing job of drumming up some good spin? For pete's sake, Clinton got his weenie sucked in the oval office and they made him out to be Satan himself. They clearly could have done a better job here.
-
LOL, that is a pretty good rendition of the international dialog! It brings up another point as well- what if we find no WMD?
"Well, Jeeze guys, sorry for the bombs and all that. We THOUGHT you had WMD! You were SUPPOSED to have WMD. How come you got no WMD?"
Man oh man, there will be a line clear around the world twice, of the folks waiting to say "I told you so."
I've often wondered as this all unfolded, just why we even messed with the UN? It was pretty obvious that Bush was going to do what he wanted, regardless of international reaction or comment. Why didn't he just hit Baghdad, and call it a continuation of the war on terrorism, and move on. As we all learn, it is far easier to appologize than to ask permission. As it is, we have gambled quite a lot on Saddam actually having WMD, and given the world time to paint all sorts of "Yankee Go Home" banners.
Even if we do find WMD, we have set the stage for a global anti-American movement, even among such steadfast friends as the Canadians. The world will definately be a different place after this.
-
You know, I am *not* a George Bush fan. And 2 weeks ago, if you had asked (and maybe even if you hadn't), I'd have denounced a war with Iraq as a piece of Western meddling in a complex situation... and other stuff like that. Then I saw a documentary on CBC (also not Bush fans) about the history of the original decision to disarm Saddam, and what happened when the UN experts moved in to do that. Initially they met with a lot of resistance. That changed because the US told Saddam to behave, or else! Then the security council waffled on Rwanda, and allowed the massacre that happened there to occur without any hindrance. So Saddam decided they'd do the same with him. So he started first to deny, then to harass and finally injured a UN inspector, all without any hindrance thanks to waffling in the security council. At that point, the UN inspectors felt that without outside support, it was only a matter of time before things progressed from unsafe to deadly and they left, without having done their job, they were quite sure. So, maybe, just maybe force is the only language Saddam Hussein can understand, and is the only way to prevent another Iran/Iraq war or another war with Kuwait or an attack with outlawed weapons on Israel or any other nation that got under Hussein's skin. I'm very glad I am not in the position of US president and having to make the decisions he's made.
Oh, and about the French and Russian concerns? It has not been too publicly bruited that Saddam Hussein's regime owes both France and Russia money. Lots of money. It kinda changes the complexion of the "It's all just about money, power and oil, anyway" claim; the claim may be correct, but it's definitely not one-sided.
Too bad our prime minister doesn't have the guts to stand up against the polls like Britain's prime minister does.
-
Carol52, I guess I should have put a smiley face when I said I was blasted by you and Pammy. I come here to get the arguments and opinions of those I respect and consider friends. It would be very hard for me to be offended.
This war on Iraq (I don't call it a war WITH Iraq) has so many elements that I find interesting, depressing, repugnant and yet hopeful. Like you, I have considered the aspect of the Iraqi oil fields, and Bush's close ties to that industry. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the resources of the country will indeed be preserved and managed for the benefit of the Iraqi people.
It also occurs to me that this is kinda like a 21st Century cold war. It seems that the real battle is a war of politics between the US/Britain and the French/Russians/Germans, etc. The sandy farms and cities of Iraq are only the chessboard where we are "strutting our stuff", so to speak.
The mid east is once again the theater for stronger nations' power struggles. I suspect that the French government cares a whole lot more about the oil and money owed them by Iraq, than they do about the Iraqi people. The same could be said about the US; that we care more about possible terror within our borders than we do about the terror we bring elswhere.
I just hope we are all watchful, and that we demand that our war on terror continues to be just that. I fear the politicians and their "deals'" to supossedly assure our peace in the future. Lets remember that is was just that sort of thing which brought Saddam into leadership and provided him with WMD in the first place. I wonder at what price we will buy back some of our allies. I wonder how long it will take to heal the wounds.
-
Oh dear Lon I certainly didn't mean to blast you or imply you were a warmonger. I was just expressing my opinion. I'm very sorry if I offended you. I'm not the kind of person to blast anyone. I guess that's a problem with this media. It's not the same as speaking face to face.
I am really just a hypocritcal pacifist. I would kill to protect my own but I can't condone bombing the heck out of innocent people for any reason especially when you pick out one country from all the countries run by tyrannts or who pose some kind of threat (what about Nth. Korea?). I am a bit cynical about how much Irag's oil has to do with the current state of affairs. I guess only time will tell.
I also fear that if you poke a beehive often enough you will eventually get stung and it will be the innocent who suffer. I respect and admire all those young people who are away doing their duty and pray for their safe return.
-
P.S. It was a good topic Lon. It brought us all out to voice our opinions as only we who are lucky enough to live in democracies can.
-
Lon:
"(no one mentions the fact that the US first gave Saddam strains of anthrax)"
Now wait a minute Lon, you are entering my area of expertise. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
You, I assume, are talking about the Ames strain from the USDA laboratory in Ames, Iowa [that is what the press calls it, but there are, in reality, many Ames strains]. When you say that the US provided it; who do you mean in the US? Do you mean that the US [whomever that is, provided a weaponized version and the information to provide more]? You are starting to sound like some wastes of fixed carbon on TB2k.
In reality, these strains have been freely exchanged [for research purposes] around the world.
If you mean something else, please document it or you will be officially sent to TB2k for eternity.
Best Wishes,,,,,,
Z
-
Lon:
A final note: Why would someone have to send anyone Bacillus anthracis. Just go out towards the swamp and dig up a cubic centimeter of soil. You will have your own culture. Of course, if you plate it and grow a culture, you are in violation of the Bioterrorism Act of 2002 and could spend some time in Kansas.
The stuff is everywhere.
Best Wishes,,,,,,
Z
-
Let's see now, Kansas or TB2K for eternity.....such hard decisions. Actually, I've been ducking the Feds ever since I found that 2 month old feta cheeze sandwich in my tackle box last July.
Sorry, Z, I was just relying on my memory, but somewhere I read or heard that during the Iraq/Iran conflict the US backed Iraq with war machinery, including weapons grade anthrax. I could certainly be wrong, and will bow humbly to your expertise. Especially in light of the Kansas thing. (To be down-wind of that feed lot just outside Dodge City for eternity..... just shoot me now!)
-
Glad to see you still have your sense of humour Lon. BTW I reckon a "two month old feta cheeze" s/wich would be nearly as bad as a feedlot anywhere. It'd probably make good berley though.
-
Lon:
What Carol said [img]biggrin.gif[/img] The place in Kansas is not near Dodge City. It is a short piece up highway 73 from Kansas City; near the Missouri River. The wind whould blow from Oskaloosa. I think they sent Bob Best there.
I was asking for you source since most of the people who say this pull it off of some place like Rense.com. Was it done when Ronnie was Pres.? They did similar things in other areas. I don't know. Just wondered if anyone could verify this.
Best Wishes,,,,,
Z
-
Z
What do you think about SARS? Is it likely to be less of a problem after the winter cold season is over?
-
Helen:
You got me. I just returned from LA. I won't see my 1000 or so email messages until Monday. From what I've seen, there is still no agreement about the causal agent and definitely no demonstration of Koch's postulate. Based on the information presently available it is not easily transmissable or it would be in the exponential phase of spread at its center of origin. Mortality appears to be just a few percent [bad if you are one of those] but not high; because of the difficulty of diagnosis, the mortality rate is probably much lower [keep in mind one can't trust this kind of data from PRC]. We will have to wait and see.
Present dogma is that spread of contagious diseases no longer decreases in the spring and summer; at least in cities. That, of course, is based on the latest theories and could be wrong.
Best Wishes and off to sleep,,,,,,
Z
