Thoughts on Coaches

With a grand total of 128 picks to do and no deadline to make them, it's possible that we'll have pay coaches for a long time. If you sign a coach for $100,000 and the draft takes a month, that's $3,000,000. For those hoping to get a top-notch coach, the outlay could be significantly more.

I understand that some people want to get a coach before their players so they can work with his strengths. Others just want the best coach they can get, but want to pay him for as short a period as possible before games begin.

Here are a couple of suggestions we can discuss:

We can have "live" auctions for the coaches on here with a deadline of say, the end of the first round. Then people would know who their coach was soon, and how much they're paying, but without having to pay him throughout the draft period.

We could have a voting thread for when to take the coaches off waivers. Rather than vote for a particular date, all the votes would say, "I'm ready for coaches to come off waivers." As soon as 17 people responded, they'd come off waivers.

To even out the costs of coaches somewhat, we could sign them, and then when the draft was done, we could ask Scott to add $X to each team -- something along the lines of $150,000 x Number of Days in the draft.

These are just some thoughts for discussion, but I think something ought to be done if we're going to have to pay coaches for a while because I'm not sure people took that into consideration when voting on how much cash to start with.

why don't we keep it simple and have the bidding on coaches start at the beginning of draft round 4 or half way through round 4 . that way they are in place for a minimal period but should be in place by end of draft so that it does not delay the start of the season

Tex, that defeats the purpose of wanting to build a team to a coach's strength

I wanted to add some argument to the auction idea:

I very much dislike the way bidding goes for coaches in Franchise Basketball. The problem is that you can only bid on a single coach, meaning you may miss out on the entire top batch of coaches if you lose the single coach you bid on. If you could bid on multiple coaches I wouldn't have much of a problem with it.

I think a better way can be done by having our own auction, and I think I know the best way to run it. A Dutch auction is one where the price decreases and the first person to "jump in" gets the item at that price. What we do is start the bidding at $1,000,000 per day for all the coaches. (If someone might actually bid that high, then we'd need to start higher.) Each day we lower the price by a set amount, and the first person to post with the coach they want gets him at that price. Here is how the auction might go.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">code:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><pre>
Day 1: $1,000,000
Day 2: $900,000
Day 3: $800,000
Day 4: $700,000
GredelKhan selects Ralph Bear
Day 5: $600,000
FastTracker selects Bart Mickell
4Horseman11 selects Luthor Carrejo
Day 6: $500,000
Day 7: $450,000
and so on.</pre></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

The result of this auction would be GK paying $700,000 a day for Bear, and FT and 4H paying $650,000 for their coaches. The auction would continue down to about $75,000 at which point it wouldn't matter. Obviously you'd still have to pay at least the minimum the coach demanded.

Here are the advantages:
1. Each person gets the coach they want at the price they're willing to pay as long as it's more than anyone else is.

2. We don't need to have a separate thread for each coach or deadlines or sealed bids. We just agree on when the price drop takes place and then we hardly even need someone to "run" the auction since everyone knows what the appropriate price is.

3. All the coaches get auctioned off at the same time. Given the following progression, we'd be all done in 35 days.

Disadvantages:
1. There's no way to bid at intermediate values. If you want to take a coach at $750,000, there's no way for that to happen.

2. There is a slight advantage for people who are available when the increment drops. If two people both intend to take a coach at $500,000, the one who jumps first will get it.

3. It does require people to be available and have internet access at the time they want to bid. While the draft will pause and wait for someone who's having problems, this auction will continue merrily on.

<font color="#000002" size="1">[ January 30, 2005 06:16 PM: Message edited by: TuringComplete ]</font>

Here's the suggested progression referred to in the preceding post:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">code:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><pre>$1,000,000
$900,000
$800,000
$700,000
$600,000
$500,000
$450,000
$400,000
$350,000
$325,000
$300,000
$275,000
$250,000
$225,000
$200,000
$190,000
$180,000
$170,000
$160,000
$150,000
$145,000
$140,000
$135,000
$130,000
$125,000
$120,000
$115,000
$110,000
$105,000
$100,000
$95,000
$90,000
$85,000
$80,000
$75,000 </pre></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

MY 2 CENTS:


1. I am not for signing coaches now! Only because I know how important a coach can be to your team and will be willing to pay a good amount as I know other teams will do as well.

The only problem with this is that some teams could be paying over 500K a day and we have no idea when games will start .. sure other teams will say "Well thats your fault" ... but again im just saying why i think its a bad idea to sign them now

2. I hate the way a coach is bid on! Only one at a time and its really just a guessing game.

EXAMPLE:
10 guys want one coach

the highest bid is 250K but i dont know that and really want him ... with ten guys i think its prob higher so i go for 500K and get him. Sure im happy but 250K a day more add up and is really stupid in my mind.

3. If this is our league and we have this forum would anyone else be up to an idea like TURINGs where we bid on coaches here.

We see what everyone else is willing to pay and if someone is willing to pay more than you then they get him however in the end everyone prob wont have to OVERPAY. this can work because like other rules of ours its our own GMs that maintain the peace and trust within the leagu.

You dont sign him till the games start but you will at least know he is yours ... and everyone agree's not to try and sign him when the time comes

Anyone up for something like that

how about letting everyone bid on coaches. in order to pay them, everyone starts off with a large amount of money to be able to cover any expenses. once the league is ready to start, reset everyone's bank account to $55M, thus erasing the daily salary. also, everyone must avoid advertising, buying contracts and stadiums. everything can be reset to 0 afterwards as well and to the lowest stadium. and maybe set training to 0 trains per day to avoid letting people get a head start. i think i covered all ways to spend money.

what the above does

1. you get your coach to build around but arent paying for it right now

2. you arent over paying in the long run

3. you actually see what others are willing to pay ... if you want to pay more thats your choice

4. its rather simple and we have the time to do it while the draft is going on ... allows more activity within the league

thats a lot of stuff for Scott to have to do llfalcon ....

plus no on says you have to buy merch/pro/conc or stadium upgrades right now nor do you have to trian if you dont want to

the only thing i can see is people of course buying ads for their fame rank's which is all on you and your money

...........................

ads will cost in the long run dont get me wrong but a coach could be far more expensive especially when he is doing nothing for you but sitting on your roster

I think I have a pretty good idea. We can PM Scott our bids on each coach. That way no money is taken away from the winner of each coach until the draft is over. Scott can give us the next couple of days to PM him (HostBoard PM because he's not in L40) our bids. He announces who the winners are Wednesday morning, and then the draft immediately begins.

I posted that before I realized that we're going to start making money off of revenue tonight. Forget about what I said. If you run out of money it's your own damn fault for spending unwisely. Don't buy and expensive stadium, ads, and contracts if you're going to also be hiring a coach. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

what revenue are you making ... without games being played how are you making money

second that would be way to much work for scott ... and without even asking him yet i know his answer will be NADA just from some of the other things i tried asking of him

Nevermind. With all that money in our bank accounts I thought events were going to start running tonight. I want to make some money!

I still would really like my coach before I start drafting.

i know man i really just dont know why we cant do it on this forum if everone was up for it

i mean if i said i wanted COACH A for 350K and no one else wanted to pay that then i get him

if someone else is willing to pay 750K then I have to ask myself is 800K the way i want to go

Please put this open biding method to vote for the league. It coudl easily be handled here in the forum.

We DID start making money last night! I think we should open the bidding for coaches AND start paying them right away. This would prevent guys like FT bidding $350,000 on a coach since he knows he doesn't have to pay him until after the draft. Now I know why he wants to wait to pay! Paying coaches right now will keep costs down, and save us ALL money ini the long run. If you don't want to lose your coach due to insufficient funds, then you better spend wisely.

Of course I would love to bid half a million dollars on a coach and then get to wait until after the draft to pay him. That would be great for my bank account. I also think it is having your cake and eating it, too. I want to get the best coach possible without having to worry about losing him. Waiting to pay him $500,000 will accomplish that.

However, I strongly encourage everyone to consider how much it will cost you in the long run. At the moment, the most I think I would bid on a coach is $200,000. If I know that I don't have to pay for him right now, I'm going to bid AT LEAST $500,000 for one of the best coaches.

One thing to take into account -- if we start paying for our coaches now, there's an incentive for people who didn't get a good coach or didn't get one at all to delay the draft as much as possible so that the guys who got the good coaches have to dump them before the draft is over.

I think it's just easier to leave the coaches until we're just about to start games, because otherwise the guys who have expensive coaches are going to be getting pretty angry if the draft takes a long time. No sense creating an environment where some people can't just relax and enjoy the draft.

I actually like Tall Texs idea of opening bids on coaches at the start of Round 4 in the draft. Anything else sounds like too much work for Scott and doing it through this board would only work if we could be sure that every GM was able to check in each day. If someone had to go away for the weekend they could get screwed on their coach of choice. Lets just do it through the game mechanism sometime towards the end of the draft. I realise some people want to get a coach and then build a team around him but that's stil possible, you just need to make doubly sure you get the guy you're targetting. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I think we have had a lot of discussion about changing a lot of things. The discussion is good but why not go with the format we have agreed upon and see how well it works before we make more changes.\
If we go with the existing system with a specific timetable and someone is going out of town, they can still get a bid in on the coach they like.
Starting half way or 3/4 way through the last round may even work. That way we have coaches in place before free agent bidding.
It is a long term commitment in this league so someone would have to be very lucky to get a perfect fit for their players and coach any way.
Unless of course you have a plan for the players and a plan A and B for coaches that would fit.

Or their eye on Bear, who any player will fit.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

I have to agree with Stumps, Let's say Coach X is outbidded on me by Z's 200k salary (which I refuse to pay any coach) - and since there are no time limits. I could "punish" Z by drawing out my picks - you cannot make enough in Merch. contracts to keep your salary up forever.

I will favor, at the earliest, coaches being open to bidding in the final round.

Scott probably couldnt do this But maybe he could change the formatting of the coaches page for this league to bid on multiple coaches. Lets say you bid on 3 10 coaches and won the high bid of 3 a message would tell you which 3 you won and you have 24 hours from the time the first day of bidding ended to respond which 1 you wanted or all 3 went back into the pool

Towwb has offered to be the auctioneer for a multiple sealed bid auction. How it would work:

Towwb would set up a hostboard account called L40Auctioneer.
By a certain deadline each person submits their bids by PM to L40Auctioneer.
The bids could be for as many coaches as you wanted to bid on in order of preference. For example:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Sylfaen, Verdana, Helvetica">code:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><pre>1. Bear, Ralph $450,000
2. Carrejo, Luther $355,000
3. Kassner, Fermin $155,000
and so on.</pre></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
Towwb would resolve the bids.
He would then post the results and open up the L40Auctioneer account for inspection.