-
Anyone else been having this problem?
We noticed awhile back when I went in the shop to dyno after driving around for a few months that my car was miss firing up top. What seemed to be happening was that from 7000rpms on, the spark would blow out causing the power to jump around. After a few runs making sure that it will keep doing it we decided to pull the plugs. They were totaly fried and black. So we popped in some new plugs and dyno'd. Immeditaly my power was back to normal and the problem was gone.
Here's a mini plot to show you before (bad plugs with the problem) and after (with new plugs):
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...8/fdf017c9.jpg
However today (1.5months later) I pulled plugs again and saw that they were all black around the edges of the plug and red/orange on the tips and spark area. I also think that the car is starting to miss fire again. Here's a picture of what the plugs looked like when I pulled them today. (note they are only 1.5 months old, with very few miles on them, and they are the NGK BKR7E-11 plugs which I always use. Also they seem to look like they are in the same condition as my plugs were awhile back which were a lot older!)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...c/fdf019f1.jpg
Do you guys think its time for a ignition system now to help increase the spark? If so should I get the 6AL ignition since a BTM isn't needed with my setup and stand alone.
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged w/260whp & 170trq
Member of the 12sec club!
12.9@108mph w/2750lbs (full street setup)
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to: http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
For for the best dynotuning check out: http://www.dynospotracing.com
[This message has been edited by Rboosted717 (edited February 12, 2002).]
-
You sure you're not just running too rich on the top end? You said that the spark area looked red/orange (good plugs are usually more "tan" from what I've seen), but from your pics they look pretty black to me. (although the pictures were a little small to see them really well).
I'm definitely no expert on the subject, but those new plugs look way too black for only 1.5 months . . .
------------------
Santa Barbara, CA
2001 4-dr GSR, 6psi JRSC, Comptech Icebox CAI, DC 4-2-1, Greddy exhaust, B&M FP Gague, JR BTC & MAP Controller, Cartech 2020
-
Anyone who could shed some light on this would be great because I've replaced my stock plugs for BKR7E-11's at around 28,000 miles and I'm already on my second set at 31,500.
They're not entirely black with soot but really brown and rusty lookin' especially at the tip.
------------------
'99 GSR, JRSC 6 psi., JR HO fuel pump, JR BTC, Cartech FMU, B&M Fuel Riser, RPS Turbo Clutch, 11 lb. lightened GSR flywheel, DC ceramic 4-2-1, Greddy cat-back, DC tower braces front and rear, Skunkworks 22mm rear swaybar, Koni 2-way adjustables, RS*R race springs, (and Octane Booster @ $11 a bottle...aaargh!)
-
One question that I've never got a satisfactory answer to is re: the preferred gap for the colder plugs in a GSR (which is gapped differently than other 'Tegs). Maybe this has something to do with your problem?
I just put in some BKR7EVX-11's (installed with the .044" factory gap) to replace my stock plugs about 3K miles ago without issues. Maybe I'll pull them this weekend to see how they look. Do you GSR guys out there keep the .044" (1.1 mm) gap?
------------------
Santa Barbara, CA
2001 4-dr GSR, 6psi JRSC, Comptech Icebox CAI, DC 4-2-1, Greddy exhaust, B&M FP Gague, JR BTC & MAP Controller, Cartech 2020
-
I've been going 5-8K miles between plug changes and haven't had any problems.
Same plugs. NGK BKR7E11 (or whatever...)
------------------
Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC @10psi, All the Goodies!
Best 1/4 ==> 13.356 @ 105.92mph (non-drag street tires!)
My JRSC Install Site
-
My air/fuel mixture is at 13.0-13.2 up top and solid. I think the problem is the car is way too rich at partial throttle and crusing around town. Also why is my car missfiring then?
------------------
Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged w/260whp & 170trq
Member of the 12sec club!
12.9@108mph w/2750lbs (full street setup)
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to: http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
For for the best dynotuning check out: http://www.dynospotracing.com
-
how's your gap, sir?
------------------
daily driven 96 turbo gsr hitting 11s. 315WHP 225WTQ on 91 octane pump gas and 15.5 PSI.
JRSC is garbage. I speak from experience.
-
Rich, way too rich.
------------------
-
13-13.2 up top in boost is NOT too rich.
------------------
daily driven 96 turbo gsr hitting 11s. 315WHP 225WTQ on 91 octane pump gas and 15.5 PSI.
JRSC is garbage. I speak from experience.
-
I actually gapped by BKR7E-11's too large (.045 mm). Oops. The result was surging and inconsistent power. It feels like your boost is bleeding through a big hole! Plugs had a white-ish blistering on the ground strap. My plugs are normally pretty black.
I re-gapped my plugs properly. . .and the problem went away.
------------------
6 psi JRSC GSR: 3" intake -> 217 hp/155 ft-lbs.
New: Endyn stepper, GSS342
-
Yeah. I thought 13:1 was pretty dangerously lean for FI.
I plan on aiming for 12.5:1 when I eventually do some dyno tuning.
------------------
Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC @10psi, All the Goodies!
Best 1/4 ==> 13.356 @ 105.92mph (non-drag street tires!)
My JRSC Install Site
-
I had the same problem for the same reasons and it was also solved by the guys at DynoSpot. Read my post and check out my dyno plots. When they switched out my plugs (only 7K miles old) I got a 30hp increase at the wheels and my power curve totally smoothed out. The colder copper plugs work great for about 5K miles and then the go south very quicly. I'm replacing mine at every oil change.
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/Forum40/HTML/009545.html
------------------
2001 GS-R, JSRC 6psi (215whp & 157trq), Kami Headers, AEM CAI, AEM Cam Gears, Tanabe G-Power Exhaust, H&R Sport Springs, Tokico 5-Way Adjustables, MufflerTech Custom Test Pipe, 17" 5-Zigen GT8 Wheels, Neuspeed Short Shifter, Neuspeed Front Strut Tower Brace, B&M FP Gauge, JR MAP Controller, Zip's O2 Simulator, Skunk2 Rear Sway Bar, Skunk2 Rear Strut Tower Brace
-
I just bought a box of NGK BKR7E-11's and when I measured the gap with one of those round metal micrometer's from track auto they all measured .038. Are these things worthless or am I doing something wrong?
------------------
JRSC @ 6psi
Custom Cold Air Box
Field SFC-VTEC controller
Nuespeed shortshifter
Thermal Exhaust (Stealth)
Kamikaze headers
Skunk 2 Cam Gears
Ground Control Coilovers w/ KYB AGX shocks
Random Tech. High-flow cat.
Coming soon to a street near you.....
9psi and Hondata
-
gap them all to around .035 and run em.
------------------
daily driven 96 turbo gsr hitting 11s. 315WHP 225WTQ on 91 octane pump gas and 15.5 PSI.
JRSC is garbage. I speak from experience.
-
But aren't they supposed to come with a gap of .044 or something out of the box? I wonder if I'm measuring them correctly, although it seems easy enough.
------------------
JRSC @ 6psi, Custom Cold Air Box, Field SFC-VTEC controller(soon to be for sale, let me know if you are interested)
Nuespeed shortshifter, Thermal Exhaust (Stealth), Kamikaze headers, Skunk 2 Cam Gears, Ground Control Coilovers w/ KYB AGX shocks, Random Tech. High-flow cat.
Coming soon to a street near you.....
9psi and Hondata
-
When I checked the gap on my plugs out of the box (same NGKs) they were somewhere around 0.040". I left them at that gap.
------------------
Black '00 GS-R
JRSC @ 6psi
Comptech Header / Comptech Exhaust
GC Coilovers/Tokico Illuminas
Comptech Front STB / Spoon Sports Rear STB
ITR Rear Swaybar w/ BSQ Mounting Kit
SSR GT1s / 205/45/16 Yokohama Paradas
-
We're talking about the stock gap because rboosted and one other person are running those plugs at the pre-set gap.
Somebody picked up 30 horses simply by swapping out their plugs.
------------------
Black '00 GS-R
JRSC @ 6psi
Comptech Header / Comptech Exhaust
GC Coilovers/Tokico Illuminas
Comptech Front STB / Spoon Sports Rear STB
ITR Rear Swaybar w/ BSQ Mounting Kit
SSR GT1s / 205/45/16 Yokohama Paradas
-
doesn't matter what they come as...all about your own application...plugs we choose to use on our FI applications weren't really made for our cars anyway.
Every setup is different. If i ran .040 gap, i'd never get past 4000 rpms in any gear without misfiring.
------------------
daily driven 96 turbo gsr hitting 11s. 315WHP 225WTQ on 91 octane pump gas and 15.5 PSI.
JRSC is garbage. I speak from experience.
-
217gsr,
Dude, take a look at my earlier post and check the link to my dyno charts http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/...0724&members=1 . You'll see the results of replacing bad plugs with new ones that were pregapped at 0.045 from the NGK factory. You can clearly see that my engine is very strong as a result of a good spark. If you can get your plugs to spark at a larger gap, then you will get a larger spark kernel. The only disadvantage is that your plugs will likely need replacing at every oil change. But it's not like the plugs are expensive or hard to swap out. Especially since you don't have to fiddle with the pre-set gap.
------------------
2001 GS-R, JSRC 6psi (215whp & 157trq), Kami Headers, AEM CAI, AEM Cam Gears, Tanabe G-Power Exhaust, H&R Sport Springs, Tokico 5-Way Adjustables, MufflerTech Custom Test Pipe, 17" 5-Zigen GT8 Wheels, Neuspeed Short Shifter, Neuspeed Front Strut Tower Brace, B&M FP Gauge, JR MAP Controller, Zip's O2 Simulator, Skunk2 Rear Sway Bar, Skunk2 Rear Strut Tower Brace
-
Basically the idea is, run the closest gap to stock as you can run smoothly throughout all the gears.
With anything above a .034+ gap on my setup, my car would misfire from 4000 and up on every gear after 1st. Just way too much air, and way too much fuel (i've been fine tuned on the dyno for A/F and have a strong aftermarket ignition system).
But come to think of it. When I was supercharged, I was able to run a .035 gap without any problems, even at 10psi.
------------------
daily driven 96 turbo gsr hitting 11s. 315WHP 225WTQ on 91 octane pump gas and 15.5 PSI.
JRSC is garbage. I speak from experience.
-
Your plugs show that the engine is running rich at idle and during normal driving. When the plugs get crudded up, they don't work at boost worth a fuck.
Buy the Bosch plugs that jeff sells. They will run forever and ever.
------------------
-
bobbrown:
I'm not sure if you remember an earlier post from me, but I gapped my plugs to .045 originally and the boost was blowing out the spark. JRCivic was the one who pointed this out to me. I lowered my gap to .038 and all the problems went away.
------------------
6 psi JRSC GSR: 3" intake -> 217 hp/155 ft-lbs.
New: Endyn stepper, GSS342
-
217gsr,
I guess that goes to show that all engines are different. That's why cam gears require dyno tuning. Also, I'm sure the age of the car has a lot to do with what gap you can get away with. The older your car gets, the more wear there is on your cap,rotor, and plug wires, which can also greatly affect your spark. My car is only 1 year old, so my cap, rotor, and wires are in good health.
------------------
2001 GS-R, JSRC 6psi (215whp & 157trq), Kami Headers, AEM CAI, AEM Cam Gears, Tanabe G-Power Exhaust, H&R Sport Springs, Tokico 5-Way Adjustables, MufflerTech Custom Test Pipe, 17" 5-Zigen GT8 Wheels, Neuspeed Short Shifter, Neuspeed Front Strut Tower Brace, B&M FP Gauge, JR MAP Controller, Zip's O2 Simulator, Skunk2 Rear Sway Bar, Skunk2 Rear Strut Tower Brace
-
Actually that's a really good point. My wires are less than a year old, but my cap and rotor need to be changed. I need advice about that though. . .
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/Forum40/HTML/009702.html
------------------
6 psi JRSC GSR: 3" intake -> 217 hp/155 ft-lbs.
New: Endyn stepper, GSS342
-
Trust GS-R:
Why would you suggest to run a .035 gap rather than a .038 gap. I've heard that anything in between that range would work well. But then again, if you can sustain a higher gap, wouldn't the arc be stronger (if it weren't blown out)? I'm basically wondering whether I should gap my plugs down to .035 from .038.
------------------
6 psi JRSC GSR: 3" intake -> 217 hp/155 ft-lbs.
New: Endyn stepper, GSS342
