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OK, it has opened, and I really want to talk about it. I know that putting spoilers in the topic when we basically all know how it "ends" from the books it a little weird, but:
1) I guess not everyone has read the books.
2)I want to really talk about the specifics of this movie. What worked. What didn't. What I would have done differently. Etc.
So, let's begin.
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OK, me first.
I actually took a day off from work yesterday. No, it wasn't just to see the movie. I had to go into the city to get my student ID for the grad program I am starting in January, the ID office is only open during business hours, and I work during business hours. But that was as much an excuse as anything else. I really wanted to see this one. And I had one day of vacation left anyway this year.
I went to the second matinee at 2:00 PM. The first one was at 10:00 AM. Let me specify that I may have missed some stuff because there was a woman with a 4 year old uninterested child sitting right next to me. I consider this a mild form of child abuse, never mind rude, but that is not what we are discussing.
I really liked this movie. It worked. The story was there. It was not turned into some absurd allegory of anything. It was a little rushed, but what do you expect when you compact that much into 3 hours. I do have a few complaints. I'll limit myself to 3 of them here.
1) I don't like the implication that it was Arwen who is pushing Aragorn to live up to his potential/greatness. It is totally unnecessary. It is like trying to stick a "behind every great man there is a good woman (and a surprised mother)" into the mix. Arwen is an inspiration to Aragorn, as he fell in love with her the moment he met her on the same day he discovered who he was (the heir of Isildur), and Elrond wasn't willing to lose his daughter to any less a man than the King. But really, the movie makes it sound like he was messing around with his Ranger buddies and wasting his life until she gave him several shoves in the right direction, like a frat boy who was redeemed by a new girlfriend. Yuch. This aside, I wasn't much bothered by the extra stuff Arwen was given to do. I thought I would be, but I wasn't.
2) The elves have way too much architecture. I can't imagine them using that much wood. I could have imagined them encoraging trees to grow naturally into useful shapes. And I know that there are wooden beams in Rivendell as Frodo stares at the carvings when he wakes up, but all those gazebos? Again in Lothlorien (and more so because of the place) way too much architecture. Those elves are much too fond of trees to build that much. Besides, they don't sleep. What do you need so much indoor space for?
3) I missed that all the poetry was cut, except, I guess for the "one ring" verse. I didn't want much, just a little. Maybe the "Search for the sword that is broken/ In Imladris it dwells /There shall be counsels taken/..../and the Halfling forth shall stand" (approximate) verse. It would have been easy enough to bring up. And I really would have liked to hear the elves sing the one stanza of the one about Elbereth, "A Elbereth Gilthoniel...."
Anyway, that is me. But in general, I liked it. I will go again. Do you think I could avoid small children by going to the 10:00 AM show on Christmas day? Shouldn't be too many around at that hour, should there? http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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http://www.fjordstone.com/trailer.html
This is a link to see a list of the theaters that will be showing the Legend of the Rangers trailer before showings of Lord of the Rings starting December 28, 2001.
I'm amused that both these movies are known by the initials LOTR. :-D
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MightyLady of the Flame Red Hair
Every time I push the envelope, I get a paper cut.
Okay - other than the heathens (sp?) laughing at events such as Legolas leaving no footprints on snow, I was allowed to watch on Wed 19th almost uninterrupted.
I enjoyed it immensely - in fact I almost cried through the whole movie. Waiting for bits I knew to show themselves.
Film itself - okay Arwen was way overdone from the book version, but I don't think the film lost anything from it.
The thing I miss most actually, was Tom Bombadil - he saved their lives twice in the book, and supplied their swords in the process - during their travel from the Shire to Bree. Of course, I still haven't been able to work out what kind of creature Tom was???
Okay.... who wants to see Ents.....?
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There is no fate but that we make
[This message has been edited by ianviking (edited December 25, 2001).]
Ian, I laughed when I saw Legolas walking on top of the snow, but it was laughter of delight. I thought it was a wonderfully droll touch.
Now, you knew someone was going to do it. So here it is.
Fellowship of the Ring Personality Test
Go ahead, find your match! No-one can be more surprised than me that my match is Aragorn! I'll have to try it again when I'm in a different mood. (But I won't change my answer to the question of hairy feet. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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MightyLady of the Flame Red Hair
Every time I push the envelope, I get a paper cut.
Ok, I went back and tried it again... this time I match Samwise Gamgee. A better match, don't you think? Not the brightest bulb in the string, but loyal to the end in spite of being afraid of the dark. :-D
[This message has been edited by MightyLady77 (edited December 29, 2001).]
Oh, my God ! I'm Frodo!!! LOL! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/cool.gif
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Well, Fan...you're definately in good company. I ended up being a Frodo as well.
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
I got Aragorn.
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Nommy
Gandalf.
That's a little wierd.
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I be Gandalf. Queen GOP was Sam. She feels gipped and wants to redo it.
I loved the movie, seen it twice. Good stuff.
Off to thehot tub.
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Hi Fan,
I was Frodo also. How come I didn't come up as Gandalf? Do feathery feet count as hairy feet?
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Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
Hubby and I went to see it last night. He hasn't read the books, so I explained a few things along the way. He still enjoyed it.
I thought it was a terrific on-screen translation of the book. They left things out, which is necessary unless you want a 48-hour movie. It's a shame about Tom Bombadil and Shadowfax, but so it goes. The special effects were marvelous, I especially enjoyed how they managed to depict hobbits as so much smaller, even though all the actors were normal-sized people. How do they do that? The waters Arwen called up to take out the Nazgul were nifty, with the horse shapes in them. I pictured the Nazgul as more spectral, but that's a minor quibble. Showing what things looked like to Frodo when he had the ring on was fascinating. And the change that came over Bilbo and Galadriel when the ring was within reach (and in Galadriel's case offered to her) was riveting. I was surprised all the way through on how much I remembered (and also how much I'd forgotten, although I don't know if they changed other events and I just don't recall how the book went, it's been 25-30 years since I read the trilogy). I don't remember Gandalf bumbling around inside Frodo's house running into the lamp and doorway, though.
I want to go to New Zealand. I can't imagine anyone who lives there ever wanting to leave. It's gorgeous.
And I want to get my hands on the soundtrack. I loved the music.
There was (at least) one cretin in the theater who didn't realize it was a trilogy. When the screen faded to black on Sam and Frodo walking on alone, he yelped, "What?" I felt like walking over and slapping him. Obviously he never read the books.
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I saw a post on another board that included this item. The post I saw was a cut and paste from something called the Ironic Times. Not much about the terrorists makes me laugh, but this one did:
PEOPLE
Bin Laden Granted Asylum in Mordor
"He is evil," says Lord Sauron, "but I have no problem with that."
Also, there is a site called movie-mistakes.com that has a list going for Lord of the Rings among others. Nothing so far about the continuous changes in status of the ring on its chain and the state of repair of the chain, but I wouldn't want to waste time enjoying the movie to take notes.
Happy New Year to all.
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Most "mistakes" in the film are deliberate, to allow for time.
I have bought the soundtrack, and it's quite good, but not great.
I'm waiting for the DVD now.......
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There is note fate but that we make
By the way, I'm another Aragorn http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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There is note fate but that we make
Ian,
These aren't mistakes that are just variations from the book because they didn't have time to fit everything in. This is stuff like seeing a car pass through the background of a scene or a shot of Frodo wearing shoes. Real continuity mistakes.
By the way everyone, I came out as Gandalf despite admitting to hairy feet.
I've only seen the movie twice now and I'm not sure I would go again in the theater. The talking in the audience really bugs me. I will enjoy being able to watch it at home whenever it becomes available.
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Talking in the audience? - decapitate them!
I had some laughing at that which the inferiors sis not understand. That was all, they were generally well behaved.
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There is note fate but that we make
Queen GOP was Sam. She feels gipped and wants to redo it.
Why???
Sam is the true hero of LOTR, he transcends himself as no other does, he is loyal more than any, strong when carrying Frodo up Mount Doom, he saved Frodo soo many times............
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There is note fate but that we make
Ian,
I don't see Samwise as the hero of the book. I think that honor has to be split between Aragorn and Frodo. At the end of the story, Aragorn is King of the remaining peoples of Middle Earth, especially of Men. He is the King of Men at the beginning of the Age of Men. And without Frodo and his willingness to take on the quest (none of the powerful trusted themselves to take possesion of the ring at all), Sauron's victory would have been assured.
But Sam does have something that nobody else has. He is immune to the corruption of the ring. He carries it, becoming a ringbearer, but never lusts for it. Bilbo and Frodo are not immune. It may be that Sam didn't carry the ring long enough to be affected by it, but that was never my interpretation.
Sam is a little like Galahad in the Arthur legends - incorruptible, except Sam isn't too good for the world, he is ideally suited for the simple pleasures of the world. Sam is also the only ringbearer to have a normal life. He goes home, marries Rosie, has children and continues on as before.
None of this makes him an epic hero, but being able to go through all the worst horrors your world has to offer, never stray from the path of perfect loyalty, and come out unscathed on the other side isn't too bad.
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In the books, Frodo has the ring for 17 years before he starts his quest. That gives it some time to develop some pull over Frodo. Bilbo has the ring for 61 years before he parts with it. I do not think Frodo was more suseptable (sp) but that the ring knew it was going to Mordo and hence its control over Frodo increased as the distance decreased.
If I am remembering the book correctly, Sam carried the ring for a couple of days. That did not give the ring time to develop any real influence over Sam.
Sam is very much a hero. He accompanies Frodo willingly and refuses to leave Frodo's side. He shows a loyalty that is rare. The same can be said for Pippen and Merry. Had Merry and Pippen had the chance, they would have gone with Frodo. They were not given the oppertunity. Arguably, the only Hobbit that does not rise to the occassion is Frodo. In the end, he tells Sam that he would not have been able to destroy the ring. Gollum's taking the ring lead to the rings destruction. It can also be argued that the fact that Frodo did not kill Gollum or allow Gollum to be harmed by anyone else shows Frodo's true nature and thus he is a hero because in not harming Gollum, Frodo established the conditions for the ring to be destroyed.
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i've also always seen sam as a hero, althought maybe not THE hero, because he exceeds expectations. his loyalty and friendship for Frodo come before everything else--he's willing to face his worst dreads and confront almost hopeless situations, even overcome the lure of the ring, because Frodo is more important to him. out of all the characters, he seems to have the noblest motives (he would have passed the vorlon test, being willing to sacrifice himself for just one other person).
that's one reason i was disappointed in the movie, which really gutted the scenes when Samwise's true nature really shines--he has some terrific scenes in the book, scenes when he is revealed as Merry and Pippin's key spy about Frodo's plans, the scenes in Bree where he confronts Strider, another at Weathertop, and finally his talks with the elves, in which they instruct him not to leave Frodo alone. None of these made it into the movie.
Sam is also the major counterpoint to Gollum--the person who stands between Slinker and Stinker and the ring. I hope this comes out strongly in the next two films, and Sam isn't just presented as sidekick.
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"Close your mouth, Michael, we are not a codfish."
Starting Chapter V: "A Conspiracy Unmasked"
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Nommy
LOL Nommy, don't read too much in here. (grins)
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Jeez Nommy, once I knew LOTR was due in the cinema I managed a personal record of reading the book in 13 weeks.....work was damn quiet at the time though LOL!
Silmarilion retry next...... eek!!!
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There is no fate but that we make
I fall I asleep too much reading it. Sometimes there is simply too much detail
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Nommy
Geez, nommy, you haven't figured it out yet.
You only read every third word.
Tolkien actually only wrote one book. But his publisher's wanted a trilogy. So he had to pad. He just went back and added in two words between each one he'd already written.
iz
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"Close your mouth, Michael, we are not a codfish."
In general I enjoyed the film and was overwhelmed by the special effects, the battle inthe beginning, the sorcerers' duel. I really liked the hobbit houses. In the end I thought I couldn't remember from reading the book that the protagonists cried so much (which my son who just read them confirmed). And I had the feeling that the hobbits were not only smaller in height, but that there were belittled in the plot of the film. In some scenes they were just standing or even worse being carried around like some cuddly pets whereas inthe novel they have much more selfcontrol.
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I'm another Aragorn, my sons are Legolas and Frodo - what a family!
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I saw the movie a couple of weeks ago....I loved it....Can't wait for it to come out on video....My only complaint was the sound...I found it a little too loud and couldn't make out some of it...I'm hearing impaired and can't handle loud noise but this was one movie that just had to be seen on the big screen...The friend I went with agreed with me on one thing only...I wouldn't mind having a protector like Aragorn...She is also one who has never read the books....When it finished all she said was "That's it???"
I took that test too....I'm Frodo....and I don't have hairy feet....LOL
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Nynaeve, is that really you? You've been MIA for so long that some of us wondered where you might be. Sycamore, in particular, was asking about you.
It's good to see you back! :)
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MightyLady of the Flame Red Hair
"Mobius strippers never show you their back side."
yes, it's me....The last time I was here this thread wasn't even here....or a few others....I could promise not to stay away for so long but I'm sure some of you remember hearing me say that before...LOL Unfortunately real life makes other plans for you occasionally....I'm a year into that new job I posted about way back when....It's going well...I really like it but.....unfortunately we are short staffed so we are all more than a little overworked...That should change in April when one of the maternity leaves comes back.
I will try to be around a bit more....Like I said though, no promises but I will try....From what I've been reading so far I've got a lot more to do to get caught up....
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