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Ah well, Lennier had a shot at removing Sheridan from the picture early on and blew it. Instead of doing the right thing, ie not figuring out what was happening and forcing Sheridan off the station, Lennier solved the mystery. (sigh)
Granted, he did try to make up for it later but by then it was too late.
A place to discuss all things Babylon 5. At least, until the topic gets to confusing and then we can branch off if needed.
If you ahve not already seen all 5 seasons of B5 there could be spoilers in here
Well, Babylon 5 on the Sci Fi Channel, what can I say but thank god I can watch the show on tv again. The Videotapes are great, but there is something about watching a show on TV, with commercials and all that is more appealing to me.
So last night we got to watch Chowderhead be, well, a Chowderhead. I so enjoyed groaning throughout the episode (evil grin)
Hey Crash...Garibaldi had a chance to get rid of Sheridan and blew it, pulled Captain Chowderhead's butt out of the fire by pulling him in before he went beyond the rim... Explain that! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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- "How do you know the chosen ones? No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his friend. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame... for one person. In the dark. Where no one will ever know or see." - Sebastion, Babylon 5
- Really I am a woman...honest!
- Resident KiSA (Knight in Shining Armor!)
- I believe trust is more important than monogamy (Savage Garden - Affirmation)
- Namesake of AsIs the kitten!
- Member of the *Save Mary Beth* Club!
Garibalid has a lapse of reasoning and did somethign stupid (grins)
Book III in the Legions of Fire series is out. I just read it, and re-read it, and re-read it...
The current triology, written by Peter David, focuses on Centauri Prime. It fills in alot of the gaps, with the thrid book introducing us to David Sheridan as he enters his teen years (grins). John and Deleen have some different ideas aout parenting but overall he seems to be a decent kid.
I will not spoil the book for you. It is well written and has soe great lines that are plays on some of the more popular phrases from the series. Vir is jokingly refered to as "?ur last, best hope for peace" Londo comments about how his life would make a great "Epic story" and misquotes the Vorlons on a regular basis.
We learn what happens to David keeper, what was going on in G'Kar and Londo's head in their last moments. My only nit pick is that Garibaldi and Sheridan seem to be best friends. The only reason I have a problem with this is because in the series finale, Garibaldi tells Franklin that he is going to go the Sheridan's going away party even though they have had some differences. The exchange left me with the impression that the relationship between Sheridan and Garibaldi was strained. That made sense to me, I assumed that by then Sheridan would know of Garibaldi's role in the telepath war and probably was a wee bit miffed at him.
That is not the case in the book. So unless something happened in the last three years of Sheridan's life that realy put what appears to be a very solid friendship on the rocks, the relationship in the book was a bit off.
Overall a great series that remains true to the series. I enjoyed it.
I guess I should get off my butt and read book 1 then, huh? http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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- "How do you know the chosen ones? No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his friend. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame... for one person. In the dark. Where no one will ever know or see." - Sebastion, Babylon 5
- Really I am a woman...honest!
- Resident KiSA (Knight in Shining Armor!)
- I believe trust is more important than monogamy (Savage Garden - Affirmation)
- Namesake of AsIs the kitten!
- Member of the *Save Mary Beth* Club!
Yup Azziz you should, I want to talk about it with some one. (grins)
I saw Thirdspace on the SciFi channel a couple of nights ago. I had only seen bits and pieces of it before.
I don't remember the original discussion on it when it first aired, but was anyone else as unimpressed with it as I was? http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/frown.gif
Hi PC,
I been checking Barnes and Noble for it since the 1st of November. I've read the first 2 and loved them both and have heaard the 3rd is at least as good. Let me know if you see it show up at Barnes and Noble. I can't do the Amazon.com thing 'cause the Credit card is still melted.
CT,
Yea, pretty much everyone had that same basic reaction as I remember. Me, I kinda like the openings of possibilities for the future events, but my opinion is that on it's own, it was the least impressive of the 4 movies.
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Kimball
[This message has been edited by sindatur (edited December 04, 2000).]
I wasn't impressed with "Thirdspace" either. I did like some of the special effects, especially the artifact.
I've watched all the made for tv movies except "The river of Souls" so if anyone knows of it airing please let me know. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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"Kinky is using a feather ? Perverted is using the whole chicken"
Hi Tan,
This is the schedule foir the rest of the movies on Scifi Channel
00/12/08 9PM TNTMoW3The River of Souls 00/12/17 7PM TNTMoW4 A Call to Arms
00/12/17 9PM The Gathering
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Kimball
Kimball, I bought the third book at Borders last week so I know it is in the book stores. You can probably ask the people working at the Barnes and Nobels in your area to order it for you.
Thirdspace was just a bad movie. Then again, we got to watch Sheridan nuke something again.....
How is it that he has yet to die from radiation poisioning? The number of times that man uses nukes as a solution is really very impressive.
I liked Ivanova in a nighty. But it is sort of a tie between her in a nighty and being dorky and Lochley in that oh scrumptious outfit even tho she is a hologram http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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- "How do you know the chosen ones? No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his friend. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame... for one person. In the dark. Where no one will ever know or see." - Sebastion, Babylon 5
- Really I am a woman...honest!
- Resident KiSA (Knight in Shining Armor!)
- I believe trust is more important than monogamy (Savage Garden - Affirmation)
- Namesake of AsIs the kitten!
- Member of the *Save Mary Beth* Club!
Thanks Kimball!
I'll try and catch River of Souls on the 8th http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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"Kinky is using a feather ? Perverted is using the whole chicken"
Third book.
Well, I must say that I rather enjoyed it. It still left quite a few loose ends, and in film terms I could easily see Vir being played by Bruce Willis somehow.
Still, it held its own in the realm of B5 books, and that takes a little bit of doing as far as I'm concerned.
The third book in the Legions of Fire trilogy was very good. Overall, the trilogies have been excellent. They do a nice job of filling in the 20 year gap and staying true to the characters that we all know and love.
Baisc Premise for Legions of Fire:
It starts in book one right as Londo is accepting his keeper. Vir becomes more capable throughout the series. The Drahk are shown doing things in the background that we didn't see in the series. It leads you through the internal changes on Centauri Prime during Londo's reign. That covers Book 1 and 2. Book three is supposed to finish Londo's reign and introduce us to David Sheridan (Although I haven't run across that volume yet)
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Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
OK, so can someone tell me the basic premise behind "Legions of Fire"? All 3 books?
I still havent bought the final book for the PsiCorps series. ;(
Are any of these books regarded by JMS as canon as ummm....don't remember the name, the one detailing Sinclair's time as Ambassador to Minbar?
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I don't need to drink to have a good time. I need to drink to shut out these voices in my head.
My understanding is that the trilogies are considered canon, as is To Dream in the City of Sorrows.
I know that JMS worked closely with the authors of the trilogies (The Centauri Prime trilogy, Legions of Fire, was written by Peter david who also wrote scripts for the series) and they are very true to the characters and the series itself.
Thanks all,
I shall DEFINATELY have to read this one
Just watched the War without End 2 parter again. Forgot just how much of a set up this was...In Valens Name! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
Well, I finally got the third book in the Centauri Trilogy Friday night. I'm about half through it and it looks to be everything I had hoped for.
Now Once I finish it, I'll be droolin' for the Technomage trilogy.
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Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
Questions about WWE 1 and 2:
Okay, guess I've seen these episodes 5 or 6 times now, and I still have questions:
(1) Where does Sheridan go the second and fourth time he disappears? When Sinclair, Garibaldi, and the station commander are grilling Zathrus, an officer runs in and says, "Sir, it's back AGAIN." They run out to see Sheridan concealed in spacesuit and Zathras hands him the time stabilizer. Then Sheridan disappears again, and reappears near the hatchway to the White Star, where Delenn finds him.
So--the crew of Babylon 4 have apparently already encountered someone in a spacesuit BEFORE Sinclair, Garibaldi, and the commander rush out of the session with Zathras. That implies the following chronology: Sheridan disappears (second time), goes back in time but remains on B4, then winks out again (third time), reappearing in the docking bay, then winks out again (fourth time), and the next time we see him is at the hatchway. Did JSM ever clear this up?
(2) Know it's been asked before but when OUT Sheridan went into the future to Centauri Prime, where was the Sheridan from that time period. He had to be somewhere.
(3) Does anyone know, was Kosh one of the Vorlons with Valen on the converted B4? And did Sinclair/Valen tell the Vorlons what he knew about the future Shadow war, so that the Vorlons had an idea of what would be coming 1000 years down the road? This would explain how the Vorlons were able to prophesize about the future.
Feel free to tackle any one of these--
iz
Iz, all I can say is time travel episodes make my head hurt!
E-Gads! Yup...that time stuff got me more confused for the 5th time around. We all really need to sit together and watch it AGAIN! But, I think you got it all right Iz. Write up a timeline chart and see if it all fits. LOL http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
As to question 2 .....
In the 3rd Centauri book it made it look like the existing Sheridan kinda went to sleep when he was replaced by his time jumping pal, and woke up on the way to a Centauri transport - not knowing where he was.
Question: What do you think the dream Kosh sent Sheridan meant? Who is the man in between? What does "I am the hand" mean? What did it mean for Sheridan to be in a Psi-corp uniform?
Merle--JMS actually explained all those images in yesterday's episode; the "man in the middle" is supposed to be Sheridan's opposite number with the Shadows, or the other hand. Sheridan in the psi cop uniform apparently was a foreshadowing of his cooperation with Bester.
However, an alternative (unsanctioned and therefore heretical) interpretation would be this: Most of the images refer to things that are still in Sherian's future at the time of the Shadow War. Sheridan in the psi cop uniform is a foreshadowing of his capture and interrogation by President Clark's forces, as engineered by the psi cop Bester. Sheridan essentially has to confront himself during the gruelling interrogation. The man in the middle who is looking for him is Mr. Garibaldi--the guy who gets used by Bester and is no longer trusted by his friends, but who is determined to find Sheridan and release him. The hand image is a reference to a prophesy the techno-mage once made to Londo Mollari--"I see a giant hand reaching out of the sky." Sheridan will eventually become the "hand" that reaches down to determine Londo's fate and the fate of the Centauri. The Shadows more or less tell Sheridan this when they acknowledge that he is a "nexus," a point around which events turn.
According to JMS, this is a complete misinterpretation of the images, and I now have to go into hiding or be burned for questioning the canon. I still think it's a decent interpretation, though.
(ligtning flashes, ZAP!!)
(ouch)
iz
LOL, what Iz said! Drat it all, he beat me to it! I think Justin was stated as the Man In-between at one point. But don't remember exactly. (Justin is Sheridan's Shadow counterpart)
But I also speculate that the man in-between is Lorien. After all, Lorien is in-between the Shadows and the Vorlons, whereas, everyone else is on one side or another.
This is what Lurker's has from just after the episodes first showing: This episode resolves, at least initially, most of Sheridan's dream from "All Alone in the Night." Sheridan is "the hand," one half of a pair of opposing forces. He wears the Psi Corps badge to signify their alliance with Bester, and his position as someone in charge of large numbers of telepaths. Ivanova's statement, "Do you know who I am?" refers to her latent telepathic ability ("Divided Loyalties.") However, it's still not clear who the "man in between" is. It's also not clear whether Sheridan's analysis, even with the help of Delenn and Ivanova, is actually correct.
Thanks, guys. Yeah, we'd watched the ep last night, and were wondering if their speculation was the final word on interpretation. I'd speculated last night that the man in between could be Lorien. My thinking, though, was that he seemed to be between life and death. Between Shadows and Vorlons works for me, too. I was not particularly satisfied with the speculative answers given.
Bmat,
Justin was the white haired guy Sheridan met on Zha'Ha'Dum when he went there.
OK, so what about the raven on Ivanova's shoulder? What was that all about?
The raven was supposed to symbolize her latent telepathy that was never really developed because Claudia left the show. So I think it would have become more clear what that symbolism was if she had stayed. But Sheridan doesn't find out she is a teep until after he has the dream for the first time.
Iz, Kosh was one of the Vorlons on Babylon 4 when it went back in time. Actually, both Kosh's on B5 were there.
In the remade The Gathering, Kosh greats Sinclair as Entil'za Valen, out of respect for the time spent together 1000 years ago.
As for who was in the Blue suit, I thought that Zathras handed the time stabilizer to Delenn in the Blue Suit and not Sheridan....
Keeping track of who is who and where they are is next to impossible...
Sheridan goes ahead in time and essentially enters the body of himself on Centauri Prime, I do not think that anything happens to the older Sheridan other then he is temprarily napping in his own body. In the third book of the Legion of Fire series, Sheridan comments that he must have just jumped in time and asks Delenn if anything has changed.
Good I love this show, even after it has aired, and re-aired, we stilla re puzzeling things out. (grins)
Well, I originally thought Zathras handed the time stabilizer to Delenn. But it seems to me that one of the next scenes shows Sheridan rematerializing at the hatch and Delenn finding him. It's then that she does the switch. After that, Marcus and Ivonova find Sheridan with a working time stabilizer (he says, 'This isn't mine, someone must have swtiched it') and Marcus asks, "If you're here, who's out there in a blue suit?". And then Delenn, in the suit, rescues Zathras, who is trapped under a fallen girder.
Sooo--I guess the sequence could be--Delenn trades places with John and gives him her time stabilizer. Then she disappears and eventually gets the "fixed" stabilizer from Zathras. And then goes and frees him from the girder.
If that's the case, then the question is, who was in the blue suit the first time the crew saw it ("Sir, It's back again.")
Iz, your hereticing works fine for me as an alternative, except I can't buy the PSIcop uniform bit, cause to me it represents a cooperation of sorts, not a capture. However, I could accept it for the Teepsicles in the Civil War back home at Season 4's end.
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Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
[This message has been edited by sindatur (edited January 05, 2001).]
Justin? Could someone remind me who that is? I can't remember him.
sind-wiz--
i don't recall all the psi-uniform images but i seem to remember sheridan being dressed as a psicop looking up at another image of himself in black.
that's where i got the idea about opposition. when sheridan is captured, his interrogator is essentially trying to convince him to confess because his actions were wrong, and counters all of sheridan's answers with an "opposing" philosophy of what is "real" and what is not. sheridan, to win against the shadows and against clark, has to use some of the methods that he detests in psi-corp: he uses Lyta Alexander to enhance station security, he sacrifices various telepaths in order to deactivate earth warships, etc. just recently we heard him say that to beat the shadows he has to think like them, and delenn is shocked. so maybe the image is a recognition of the fact that sheridan will act like bester if pushed, even though he hates what bester does and what he represents. sheridan has to come to terms that there a little bester in the best of us.
iz