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Subject: Re: jms update 12/07
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=yellow>Now, damn you, I have to start making monthly trips to the comic book store again. I though I left that behind with high school and persistent acne.</font>
While you're there, you may also want to check out my other book, MIDNIGHT NATION, which is actually my favorite of the two titles right now. There have been 3 issues out so far, and it's a very different kind of story.
It's all just for fun...the amazing thing is, if you do something for fun, doggone if after a while you don't start actually making a living at it.
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Re: Attn: JMS -- B5 Saboteur :-) at Las Vegas STAR TREK Attraction
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=RED>While in the waiting area, we noticed "evacuation instructions" painted on the wall. Step 2 of the instructions reads:
"ACTIVATE PROGRAM B-5."</font>
We've known about it for a while; one of the guys in the art department who did this added it as an inside joke.
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Re: JMS: Old and new
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>I haven't noticed a title on any of the first three issues of Midnight
Nation. Do they have titles?</font>
Yeah, they have a tendency to forget to put on the real titles, and make up just some *awful* ones for early solicitations.
1 was "Living in the Material World"
2 was "Falling Through the Cracks"
3 was "Wait For Me"
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Re: JMS: Old and new
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>I can't help but notice that you're still the authority on everything that
happens to B5 even this long after production. One couldn't really blame you
if you'd told everybody to just go bug WB or Sci-Fi over the letterbox thing-you've done your part long ago. It was great of you to step in the way you did to communicate on the fan's behalf.</font>
The thing I've had to learn the hard way is that nobody else will ever care as much about something you've worked on as you do. To everybody else, it's the Product, the bits of meat that come through the sausage maker and out, there to make money. If it ain't 100%, well, as long as it's okay, that's what matters. But we worked too hard on this show to ever let it be less than that.
<font color=red>I hope that constantly having to go back to straighten out snafus with the
'old' stories won't infringe too much on the new work you're doing.</font>
It's a time sink, to be sure, but not massively so.
<font color=red>So how are things going with Jeremiah, Spider Man, City of Dreams, Psycomics and anything else I'm forgetting or not aware of? </font>
Very, very busy right now. I kind of let things go by the boards a bit while I
was working on the main two projects, the Jeremiah 2-hour pilot for Showtime, and the Rising Stars feature for MGM. The former is now in, and we hope to have some kind of response by mid-December. I'm about 2/3rds done with the Rising Stars screenplay, and hope to have that in by the same time,
mid-December.
One of the things that kinda fell by the wayside was The City of Dreams, and now that Jeremiah is in, taking away half of my biggest worries for the moment, I'm working to catch up. I've now turned in episodes 8 and 9, and hope to have the remaining 4 in by the end of the year.
I just last week turned in Midnight Nation 5, "Past Present, Present Tense," and my intent is to turn in the next issue of Rising Stars, #13, probably next week.
Moments before coming here, I turned in next week's psycomic column, this one on writing and characterization.
My first issue of Spider-Man will go in to Marvel around mid-December. It will come out around May/June of next year.
There's more stuff beyond that, but I can't talk about it yet. Probably in the next week or so. A couple of them should be of particular interest to B5 fans.
<font color=red> Oh, and have you decided
when the keyboard will go to the winner (hoping for it myself)?</font>
Last I heard, the plans are to award the keyboard (the one on which I wrote nearly all of B5, Crusade and other stuff) during the coming World Horror Con in Seattle. They also (happily) knocked down the price a bit for the book, since it was a bit high for a trade paperback (albeit a spiffy one). More
details at www.darktales.com
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Talia/Lyta Question
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>Why was Talia replaced by Lyta in season 3? Was that part of the
original story or was it a cast change like Ivanova and Lockley?</font>
Andrea Thompson felt her character wasn't getting enough screen time, and asked
to be let out of her contract.
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Re: Netter Digital Sale
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>Given the above, do you have any plans to authorize the sale of further B5 scripts through another venue?</font>.
No, not at this time. Be advised, btw, that anyone selling copies of scripts other than the actual ones used during production, which are multicolored, is ripping you (and the writers) off. It's patently illegal and constitutes copyright infringement.
jms
([email protected])
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Ah, but, Lyta,
The question is why was Lyta replaced by Talia?????
------------------
Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
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JMS's comoc books are really very good. They tend to not come out as regularly as I would like but they are worth the wait. I read both Rising Stars and Midnight Nation, good solid stuff all around.
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I have yet to read a single comic strip by JMS. Guess I really should check them out. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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Sindatur,
It's not my question...I copy the origninal question, word for word, typo for typo etc. from the b5 moderated board, and post the response from JMS word for word etc.. I do not adlib at all.
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Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Rising Stars Trade Paperback
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>Ace job Joe. When's the next one out?</font>
Thanks. It plays a lot better gathered together like that.
To the question...dunno. I know it won't come out until after the next 8 are published in regular form, and 12 just came out, so that's at least 4 months down the road, plus one or two for gear-up...so figure June.
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Re: JMS: Rising Stars Question
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=yellow>JMS,
I've finally gotten caught up on my RS issues and something struck me in the last issue. Granted, it's been 10 years since the Specials began to be hunted, but the last we saw of Cathy(?) she didn't know about her power of reanimation.
How did she learn about it? And when?</font>
At a point in-between. It's one of those things that I figure I can explain down the road a piece. Basically, when the powers began jumping in strength, it became more noticeable.
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Midnight Nation 4 out 12/13
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Just for those interested in picking it up.
jms
([email protected])
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Hi Lyta,
Yea I realize they're not your questions, I was just hoping you might know the answer or someone else might. And in case you don't remember me from the last place I went by my real name there (Kimball).
As always, your posts are much appreciated, keep up the great work.
------------------
Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
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Lyta was replaced by Talia if I remember correctly because of the power that be, can't remember if it was Warner or not, but I think so.
Pat Talman was mostly known for her stuntwork at that time and they wanted a different actress for the part. So Andrea Thompson was cast in a modified role dealing with other cast changes as well. I think they also wanted to go with a actress with more *shudder/drool* sex appeal as well.
That's what I remember at least.
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Oh, hey Kimball!!
Sorry about mixing up your question...I misread it....very long day at work.
I don't remember why Pat was replaced by Andrea, although the answer provided by AsIs sounds vaguely familiar. I'll check my archives and see if I come across anything.
Thanks AsIs
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Subject: Re: the new widescreen prints...
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
I'm appending this message here in case it takes a while for a new topic to get through moderation....
Today I went to a meeting at Warner Bros. technical support, where we went over the problems detected in the SFC widescreen airings. I now have some answers and some information on this. I have to say up front that the WB folks have been nothing but helpful and determined to fix the problems.
In "Midnight on the Firing Line," wherein a teapot is shown instead of a starship when the audio indicates the latter...the editor explained that it resulted from a pause/freeze frame during assembly, and when he restarted the equipment, it jumped shots. This will be fixed.
In "Covictions," wherein a comp shot of several monitors doesn't show the surveilance footage, but rather shows just the original babcom logo...they had missed this on their list of comp shots, and will go back and insert the proper footage now that they know the problem is there. (They QC everything, but often with the audio down, so they had no way of knowing that they were talking about camera footage, and figured that it was okay since there was something -- the babcom logo -- in the monitors rather than totally blank screens.)
In "Inquisitor," wherein the west end/east end audio correction wasn't made...they were going off the original PAL audio transfers, which in this case didn't work because we made that audio correction *after* broadcast and replaced the audio for that shot afterward. They're going to go back to the
revised 24 track audio and insert the proper audio.
Here's what's going to happen beyond this.
1) WB is going to go back to using *only* the original 24 track audio stems for the dubs.
2) Seasons 4 and 5 as it turns out are already in proper wide versions, as is
season 1, so the only ones that need to be addressed are seasons 2 and 3.
3) WB is going to run cassettes of the whole series in the new version and I'm going to personally go over every damn episode personally looking for any potential problem areas (such as comps that may not have been recognized as such by the WB editors). It's possible that I may miss something here and
there, because 110 hours is a LOT of TV to watch...but it'll certainly help.
They were *extremely* helpful and apologetic at WB, and are determined to do everything they can to fix the situation as fast as possible.
As for the audio...the audio transfers are being done directly off the original clones (either the original PAL, digibeta or 24 track stems), and QC'd. So what they suspect *may* be the problem is if the SFC is running the digital tracks through a dolby decoder. If you try to decode Dolby that isn't there,
on a digital track (which doesn't need Dolby because it's digital) it can make the audio crunchy or lead to drop-outs, pops and other problems. I've sent word to SFC to have them check that at their end of things.
So the situation is well in hand.
jms
([email protected])
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AsIs, I find that odd. Personally, I find Pat much more attractive. Make that MUCH more attractive. Andrea does nothing for me.
------------------
It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you.
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Subject: Re: ATTN jms:Jeremiah article on sci fi wire
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>There's an article posted today on Sci Fi Wire about the plan to develop Jeremiah. Does this mean they have accepted the pilot script?</font>
To accept a pilot script doesn't mean they are commissioning a series. We're waiting for a decision and should have some information probably next week.
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Re: OK, I'm expecting an announcement about the formation of the Nightwatch
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>But the latest really takes the cake: has anyone seen a reliable,
confirmed report that Bush's lawyers are in Florida trying to prevent the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Miami Herald and others from looking at the disputed (which they have every right to under Florida's Sunshine
Law) ballots? Is this just another Scurrilous E-Mail Rumor?</font>
No, it's quite true. The Miami Herald in fact is in the process of demanding to review the set-aside, disputed ballots. The recount had put Bush at only 53 votes ahead when it was stopped by order of the Supreme Court, and some estimates indicate that Gore may have had far, far more votes than anyone
anticipated.
There's some *really* good stuff on this at Michael Moore's site, www.michaelmoore.com including an astonishing breakdown of the Supreme Court verdict which for the first time really explains the thing.
One of the more interesting elements is that they overturned the Florida Supreme Court decision because the FSC did not create a standard for determining the process by which the intent of the voter could be discerned --
which was all the Florida legislature had previously stipulated -- so that uneven standards would apply to different counties. For that reason, it was overturned.
But if the FSC *had* created a specific standard, then it WOULD have changed the rules after the game had started, and it would ALSO have been overturned.
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Re: JMS: Rising Stars Question
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>JMS,
I've finally gotten caught up on my RS issues and something struck me in the last issue. Granted, it's been 10 years since the Specials began to be hunted, but the last we saw of Cathy(?) she didn't know about her power of reanimation.
How did she learn about it? And when?</font>
At a point in-between. It's one of those things that I figure I can explain down the road a piece. Basically, when the powers began jumping in strength, it became more noticeable.
jms
([email protected])
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Joe,
I was thinking of sending out one or more episodes of CoD as Christmas presents, but I can't even get far enough into scifi.com's "restricted" web site to find out which ones are available as audio "books".
Since I can't get past scifi.com's browser_detection_failed.html
page, is there some other way of obtaining these?
Thanks...
I believe they will be released on tape down the road, when we've finished.
jms</p>
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It's my pleasure to announce a new web site dedicated to providing an archive of messages from JMS. The site contains almost 16,000 messages from sources such as Usenet, CompuServe, Genie, and AOL. Messages can be browsed in the order posted or you can search for words of particular interest. The
site is kept up to date with new messages posted by JMS to this usenet newsgroup (rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated).
The site is located here.
The goal of the JMSNews site is to make postings from JMS, both past and present, easily accessible to everyone. Whether you're looking for information on a particular episode of Babylon 5 or news about Joe's more recent work, the site is a great resource.
Enjoy!
Doug Olson
JMSNews Administrator
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Subject: Re: Woohoo, i found it, (ATTN: JMS)
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>Perhaps at some date a reorganized fan club can obtain necessary rights to all the dead-to-the-market material and electronic resources for print-on-demand.</font>
I think that would be a bit beyond the resources of a fan club.
jms
([email protected])
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Subject: Re: Upcoming writers' strike
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>How do you spend your time during these strikes ? Do you continue writing, but not submitting material. Or out on the picket line, or take some time off.</font>
I've got 3 comics per month to turn out (Rising Stars, Midnight Nation, Spider-Man), plus the weekly Psycomic column, and the City of Dreams scripts aren't affected because radio drama covered any more by the WGA, and I'm writing a new novel, more of a mainstream book, and there's other stuff...I don't generally have or take time off.
<font color=red>What type of writing is not covered by WGA ?</font>
WGA covers TV and film and is working on covering internet TV productions.
That's it.
jms
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Subject: Re: JMS Top Secret Projects??? FROM JMS
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
I'm responding to this here because this individual ALSO sent me the note quoted here using my email account.
<font color=red>How about a one or half season series about valen and the shadow war a 1000 years ago. Valen could come into the series after a 1 or 2 episodes, after wee see how the minbari were left with no central HQ.</font>
I'm responding to this here because it seems no matter how many times I say it, there's always Somebody Who Doesn't Get the Message.
How many times are we going to have to go through this?
1) DO NOT USE MY EMAIL FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN PERSONAL ITEMS THAT CANNOT BE DISCUSSED ON THE NETS.
Do not COPY me on your public messages here, do not SEND me questions about how fast the White Star can fly vs. the Enterprise, do NOT use my email to ask about the frickin' DVDS, and
2) DO NOT SEND ME STORY IDEAS *EVER* FOR ANY REASON, ESPECIALLY IN EMAIL!
Understand that my being here is always a precarious compromise. If somebody sends me a story idea, and it happens to be anywhere NEAR what I am thinking about doing or might do in the future, it puts me at SUBSTANTIAL LEGAL RISK of being sued.
Think it's an unnecessary concern? Ask Marion Zimmer Bradley, who lost a whole
NOVEL due to EXACTLY this sort of thing.
Because this has been posted here, you can be absolutely sure that I will now not do ANYTHING like this, at ANY time.
Let me be plain: this crap endangers my ability to participate on ANY and ALL
net discussions. I've made only one really hard and fast rule, one request of the fans: DO NOT DO THIS TO ME. Do not put me in this position.
Do NOT abuse the email privilege, and do NOT send me story ideas.
Because eventually, if it continues, I will have to withdraw totally from all nets because it's not worth the legal danger, and it's not worth having to slog through ten thousand emails asking me about B5 weapons systems and the like. (And ever since the reruns began on SFC, I've been FLOODED with such emails.)
I apologize for having to be loud about this, but this really has to stop. If necessary I'll close this email account and use only a private one.
There's a FAQ with this info. If you're on this newsgroup, and you haven't read it, you should check it out, and save my blood pressure from going up a notch or two.
Rant finished now. Returning to Nice Guy mode. Please adjust your chairs to their upright and locked position.
jms
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Subject: Re: NOW: MZB Book.WAS: JMS Top Secret Projects??? FROM JMS
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>What happened to MZB? What novel was lost?</font>
She wrote an entire novel that she had to scuttle because a fan had come up with the same idea, wrote up something on it, and there was a threat of lawsuit since MZB had presumably had access to it.
So the publisher dropped the novel rather than face the possibility of action, even though in the long run she probably would've prevailed.
jms
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Subject: Re: ATTN:JMS In the Event..
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>This may be a foolish question, but here it goes. If SFC decides to pick up and rerun the 13 episodes of "Crusade" would you, as Executive Producer, have any say concerning the order in which these episodes would be aired? It would be a nice to begin with "Racing the night" (although this may mess with the continuity of "Warzone" etc...). It would also be great to see the crew discover the virus shield before they use it http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif </font>
The problem would be in the uniform changes. That major piece of visual continuity would *massively* throw people off if we re-ordered the eps.
jms
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lyta Alexander:
Subject: Re: JMS Top Secret Projects??? FROM JMS
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
I'm responding to this here because this individual ALSO sent me the note quoted here using my email account.
<font color=red>How about a one or half season series about valen and the shadow war a 1000 years ago. Valen could come into the series after a 1 or 2 episodes, after wee see how the minbari were left with no central HQ.</font>
I'm responding to this here because it seems no matter how many times I say it, there's always Somebody Who Doesn't Get the Message.
How many times are we going to have to go through this?
1) DO NOT USE MY EMAIL FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN PERSONAL ITEMS THAT CANNOT BE DISCUSSED ON THE NETS.
Do not COPY me on your public messages here, do not SEND me questions about how fast the White Star can fly vs. the Enterprise, do NOT use my email to ask about the frickin' DVDS, and
2) DO NOT SEND ME STORY IDEAS *EVER* FOR ANY REASON, ESPECIALLY IN EMAIL!
Understand that my being here is always a precarious compromise. If somebody sends me a story idea, and it happens to be anywhere NEAR what I am thinking about doing or might do in the future, it puts me at SUBSTANTIAL LEGAL RISK of being sued.
Think it's an unnecessary concern? Ask Marion Zimmer Bradley, who lost a whole
NOVEL due to EXACTLY this sort of thing.
Because this has been posted here, you can be absolutely sure that I will now not do ANYTHING like this, at ANY time.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yikes! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/eek.gif
Think he was a tad upset? <font size="-2">(Perfectly understandable WHY, though...)</font>
-
Yah,
And the sad thing is that he may have done something for us, and now, he's saying how can he. This is a story I've always "needed" to see played out.
------------------
Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
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The worst thing is that I can see this thing continuing until he's lost all plot options. He definitely needs a new address and a very very short list of people with access.
-
I believe this happened once before where the Great Maker became upset regarding story ideas sent to his e-mail account as well as general questions. When he left the original B5 newsgroup (RAST) which still exisits, and moved to the moderated board he set the guidlines down regarding when, if ever to use his personal e-mail account. He layed it on the line from day one that if the posts got out of line regarding story ideas etc. he would have to leave.
Luckily, it looks like things have cooled down a bit.
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Subject: Re: JMS...about being "left alone" on Spider-Man
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>However, how will plot threads in the sister title, Peter Parker affect you? For instance, I understand PP will be bringing back Mary Jane...surely that would be addressed in Amazing somehow, correct?</font>
What Paul and I discussed is that I'll be over here doing my thing, he'll be over there doing his thing, and if there's something that I'm doing that he wants to capitalize on, or something he's doing that I want to incorporate, we're free to do so, but otherwise we're on our own.
jms
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Subject: Re: Did your audio in "ItF" also sound flat?
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>Did anyone else think that the audio in "Into the Fire" from 010115
sounded unusually flat, even by SFC standards? I initially thought it might have been a general signal quality issue, but the commercials sounded "normal."
I also thought the overall volume level of the program itself sounded lower than usual, but it's a little harder to be sure about that.
Anybody else have similar impressions?</font>
I think the problem is being caused by running digital sound through an analog
dolby decoder at the point of broadcast.
jms
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Subject: various from jms
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
A number of items here, of varying timeliness and relevance.
As some have noted, Bookface.com is now an ex-website. For those wanting to get their hands on Tribulations, the book is still available from darktales.com. There are no plans currently to put the book up anywhere else
online.
Rising Stars 12 and Midnight Nation 5 came out a few weeks ago (would've made more mention of this but it's been kinda hectic here lately on a number of fronts).
(And speaking of comics stuff, Crusade writer and B5 Reference Editor Fiona Avery wrote the script for the X-Men Annual 2000, which came out last week from Marvel. Her own series, No Honor, will debut from Top Cow late February. Folks can keep up on her stuff at www.fionaavery.com)
My first draft screenplay for the Rising Stars movie went in on Christmas day, and the studio reaction has been EXTREMELY positive. I can't say more about this at the moment, but things are looking very good for the long haul on this.
I've turned in 4 scripts for new City of Dreams episodes, but due to production
tie-ups on other projects at Seeing Ear Theater, they won't be up at www.scifi.com/cityofdreams until around the first week of February.
Finally...and you'll have to forgive the vagueness of this...B5 fans may want to keep their ears to the ground for the next few weeks. There are several things that have been simmering for a while now, which I haven't commented on because I wanted them to be realities, not possibilities, before I said anything. I think the former may finally be working out...so keep an eye on
this newsgroup for the next few weeks. There may be a number of interesting
announcements.
jms
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Subject: Re: various from jms
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=yellow>Avery wrote the script for the X-Men Annual 2000, Actually, I believe she just did the dialogue.</font>
That's what the script is in comics as Marvel tends to do them. There's Plot and there's Script, the latter being the dialogue. The credit in the book says "script by."
So far today I'm two for two....
jms
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Subject: Re: various from jms - writing question
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>But hey. The question.
Did you ever hit a period like that?</font>
Sure. Half of what writing is, is learning what needs to be thrown out...getting the thought down one way, the wrong way, so you can then figure out how to write it the *right* way.
And canceling emails before sending is sometimes the best thing one can do with them.
jms
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Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Your wife's reaction? (repost)
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>NOTE: Original question is not available. Lyta</font>
I think she'd be open to the possibility.
As for the best of the bunch, I'd have to say it's probably the technomage trilogy, or what I've seen of it so far.
jms
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Subject: Re: Att. JMS - Babylon 5 Short Stories - Please Put 'Em Together &
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>With the demise on Babylon 5 Magazine and Amazing Stories, wouldn't it make sense if all the Babylon 5 short stories, that were published in both magazines, could be put in ONE book, that could be sold to the fans?</font>
We've mentioned it to Del Rey, but they haven't done anything about it.
jms
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Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Fourth, or Fifth? (Tribulations)
From: [email protected] (Jms at B5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
<font color=red>It's originally (and logically) "Fourth Estate", but in recent decades it's gotten hopelessly entangled with "Fifth Column", and tends to come out "Fifth Estate".
JMS is a smart guy and a terrific writer, but he sometimes slips up on stuff like this, by not checking on things that "everybody knows".</font>
It's not a question of not checking. The journalism profession is often referred to as the fourth estate. I actually have the quote on reference in which that phrase is first coined:
"...there were Three Estates in Parliament; but in the Reporters' Gallery there sat a Fourth Estate more important than them all. It is not a figure of speech, or a witty saying; it is a literal fact. Printing...is equivalent to Democracy; invent Writing, Democracy is inevitable. Whoever can speak now to the whole nation, becomes a power, a branch of government, with inalienable weight in law-making, in all acts of authority.
Carlyle, Historian, 1905"
So much for the first part of your statement, that I don't check these things out.
The problem is that the *electronic* media have begun to be referred to as the *fifth* estate. The problem widens in that now a number of reporters, commentators, and politicians tend to refer to the fifth estate and include journalism in that category.
So in some cases, I use Fifth Estate as a catch-all for all the media, as noted above, and as used in hundreds of other publications (and TV shows, including one news series based in Canada which is called The Fifth Estate).
You can tack your apology to the front door alongside Martin Luther's theses on the way out.
jms
