Technomage Novels

a place to discuss the technomage Novels without spoiling folks who have not read the book yet. Spoilers Abound

OK, I can't wait to discuss this book and I don't want to spoil it for folks so....

The book starts off in an intersting fashion, we see Anna Sheridan flying a Shadow ship and Kosh watching the Techno Mages on Soom (Galen and Elric).

As I read the book, I sort of stumbeled onto something that I find to be fascinating. The race that created the technology the Mages use died 1,000 years ago. The few survivors began to train others in how to use the tech, creating the Techno Mages.

OK, 1,000 years ago... The Technomages derive their power from advanced technology which they do not understand. This starts witht he Chrysallis phase where an implant is placed in an Apprentices neck. A Chrysallis (type of head gear) can be attached to the Apprentice, through the implant. This is how the Apprentice trains and begins to learn how to use the tech. Once the Apprentice is initiated, tech is placed in their bodies that allow them to control probes, recieve messages, and cast spells.

Once the Apprentice is initiated, the Chrysallis is used to connect the Mage to his/her ship, place of power, staff or amulet, ect... So the Chrysallis becomes a piece of living technology that all Mages use through out their life.

It strikes me that the Shadows implant technology, at the base of the neck, into beings to control the Shadow Ships. hmmmmmm Sounds familiar doesn't it?

Kosh is observing the gathering of Mages because the Vorlons are thinking about destroying the Mages, they cannot allow the power of the Mage's to ally with the Shadows and the Shadows are heavily recruiting among the Mage's.

Could it be that the race that created the tech and passed it on to others, were destroyed by the Shadows or Vorlons, 1,000 years ago because they posed a threat to the goals of either race. Could it be that the Technomages have the key to removing the implants placed in the Teeps used by the Shadows?

OK, now on to the characters. It was intersting to see the relationship between Elric and Galen and how that relationship changes. Meeting so many of the Mage's and seeing the diversity of their personalities as well as their ideas on how the tech should be used was fascinating.

The focus is on Galen and his relationship with Elric and Isabella. I was surprised that the two of them knew each other for such a short period of time. Crusade had left me believing that they knew each other for a longer period of time. But that is minor.

Galen has lived much of his life with only Elric, who is not a bundle of warmth. He knows little of how to deal with people and has had minimal contact with people his own age. Enter Isabella. Elric is more concerned about how Galen will deal with girls then he is with the fact that Galen knows a destuctive spell. Sounds like the typical father figure. (grins)

The relationship bewteen Galen and Isabella develops nicely, I get the impression that it is a first love situation for both and they both fall hard. We also hear for the first time of the Well of Forever.

Once again we see Morden, and he is sooo Morden, disrupting plans, scheming, recruiting, and raising doubts. He is successful in dividing the Mage's, although I think the secrecy of the Circle helps a great deal in this area.

There is alot to this book. The only thing I found disturbing in it is that Morden graduates from Michigan State University (grins) Since we are introduced to so many new characters, I could not find any behavior that I thought was uncharacteristic. Elric struck me as the same person we meet in season 2. It is hard to say how closely Galen in Crusdaes ties into Galen in the book due to the time difference (close to 10 years).

This is good stuff and a nice introduction to a group allude to but rarely discussed in the series.

Ok, ok Prof. I'm heading for the book store now. It must be a damn fine book...I can see you dancing in your chair as you prepare for "discussion".

http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

LOL can ya tell I am anxious? (grins) Don't want to spoil it in the centauri discussion

I think the Shadows created the Techno-Mages and that in the great war, the Techno-Mages either broke from the Shadows and were all but killed off or the Vorlons almost killed them off and the remaining Mages choose to break from Shadow ideology.

Think about it, Galen discovers a new spell, by going back to the basics. And this new spell becomes a destructve choatic force. Methinks that the Mages of old vowed to never use that spell and dressed it up, hiding it in a sense. And Galen with his approach is the first one to really see it due to the way he processes spells.

Oh yeah, the Shadows want the Mages on thier side.

I really really liked Isabelle *sniff* And the relationship between her and her mentor was very well done in the book.

Seeing a younger Galen is very interesting as well. I think he fits very well with the Galen we come to know in Crusade.

Excellent, Excellent job on this first book, I look forward to the second! http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif

Well...I'm up to the point where Galen and Isabell have arrived at the hotel and she's casting Cadmus' fortune. However, I'll risk being spoiled none-the-less.
Elric sure seems to be Elric from Season 2, that's for sure. His face fits the character in the book to a "T". I have a sneaky feeling, though, that Kell's apprentices and perhaps Kell himself are more involved with the Shadows than they should be, but that's just a hunch at this point. As for Galen, he sure has one hell of an Ace up his sleeve. Too bad, too. Must be the Ace of Spades, huh?

Wizz, keep on reading. :-)

Azziz, the tech that the Mages use is too similar to what the Shadows use, so I could easily see a connection between the two. Since we know that the race that created the Mages is destroyed 1,000 years ago, and that the tech is so similar, I would lean towards the tech was developed witht he help of the Shadows but then the race decided that they did not have the same goals as the Shadows.

Look at the Technomage code, the last word is "good". There is no mention of chaos anywhere in the Code. Which makes me think that the founding race broke from the Shadows.

OK, now for the wild, but hardly surprising, wild ass guess....

The race that created the Mage's is destroyed 1,000 years ago, during the time of the Shadow war. Valen went back in time 1,000 years ago to lead the Minbari in a fight against the Shadows. The Minbari were a race that had just made it into space (much like humanity 1,000 years in the future)and where not strong enough to defeat the Shadows. Valen had to look for allies. What if the Vorlon's knew that this race was very powerful and maybe not really fully in line with the Shadow's beliefs. Valen forges an alliance with said race and that is why they are able to defeat the Shadows. The Shadows are upset with the race that they had helped to develop the advanced tech and destroy them. Only a few survive. Valen convinces said few to share their knowledge and tech with other races in order to have a strong ally in the Shadow war to come.

It is clear that the Circle knows of the Shadows and the threat that they pose. Elric and Kell both want to fight the Shadows, even if Kell goes about it in a disaterous manner. Why? Because they believe that the power they have must be used to fight chaos and help promote good. The others in the council are afriad, more then anything, and choose to retreat.

So there was enough info for the Mages to know of the Shadows and the past Shadow war. But not enough info to know what the Mages creators had done during that war or what was expected of the current Mages when the Shadows return.

This is similar to the prophecies that Valen left behind for the Minbari. There was enough info for the Minbari to act, if they choose to, but enough info was left out (ie the Humans being the race to ally with, Sinclair's actions, ect...) because if that info was known it would change the course of history and change the future.

Wow. Neat story...and it's only part I of III. I wish Isabell could have lasted a bit longer, though. I have to wonder, though, if Kell was really shocked and amazed. Part of me thinks it was a bit of an act. How the hell could a mage teacher of his qualifications miss so damned much, be blinded to the fact that both his charges were moving to the "dark side"? Maybe they should limit themselves to either running the circle or sticking to one student at a time.
Wasn't the attack on the Narn outpost in quadrent 37(?) where one of the Shadow vessles got disabled, and had to be carried "piggy-back" out of the area? If so, the author may have missed a tie-in. No biggie, though. This book was rather difficult to put down. What remains to see is if Galen decides down the road to see if he can add controls to his single-term equation.

Just wish Isabell could've lasted a bit longer...

Oh, yeah...Morden's statement "You are already one of us" kind of puts all the nails in that coffin. The only thing missing are the Strieb(?) hunkering over the table as the implants are installed.
The thing I missed was the "static" that Galen and Isabell picked up on their initial forage into the Drakh apartment. Ah, well...

Wizz, the act on the NArn base was the one shown in Chrysallis, Season 1 finale, it kicked off the war between the Narn and Centauri and signles the start of the Shadow War.

I just re-read book 2 of Legions of Fire and have a few questions that tie into the Techno Mage book. Since I don't want to spoil people who have not read hte Techno MAge book, I am going to ask them here.

OK, The three MAgees that appear, Kane, Gwynn, and Finian are all Cloistered MAges. They obviously have the tech, they can cast spells without wearing a Chrysallis, but they have not been fully initiated (the different hair style and lack of Staff or Ammulet and the fact that they say they are not full Mages.) By the end of book 2, Finifan appears carrying a Staff that he had not had before, making me think he has finally been initiated.

Is this a new stage that only comes into existence when the MAges move into hiding? Galen went from Chrysallis stage to Initiate immediatly, nothing about being cloistered. A bit confused here

Wizz, the static was a actual Shadow Creature, whenever it was within a certain range of the probes, they got static I believe.

Regarding the Mages in the Centauri books, my guess is that not all the Mages went into hiding. We know this from Crusade as Allwyn didn't go into hiding. When Crusade airs, the Mages have not come out of hiding as well. So my guess is that the Technomages split into two factions, and that perhaps the group that does not go into hiding, alters the training protocols in favor of excelerating the process to aid in the Shadow War.

My two cents at least.

Azziz that is probably the case,the split. But only the members of the Circle knw how to create the tech needed to make someone a Mage. Since all members of the Circle went into hiding, a Mage who choose to ignore the Circle would not have been able to provide tech for new mages.

The Mages in the second book clearly were not Chrysallis stage Mages and had the tech. All three of them treated Galen as a superior, emaning they were probably made Mages after him, so they were probably given a chrysallis at the Convocation that brought Galen and comp into the Mages.

Nothing we read in the first Technomage book indicates that you can partially implant the tech, sooooo it sounds like a new stage was developed.

My guess is that they have the tech but are limited by the Circle in how they can use it.
What I got from the Technomage book was that an initiate still had three years of learning under his/her teacher before they went out on their own. Maybe that is what is meant here.

I kind of doubt that since Galen, Elizar, and Isabelle are all given a staff or amualte at initiation and Elric makes it pretty clear that Galen would be considered a full Mage after initiation. In the second book, it is clear that Finian does not have the staff when he first meets Vir but does at the end of the book. Meaning, Finian leaves this Cloistered stage and becomes a full Mage.

I be confused. Maybe it is something that will be dealt with in the second of the Technomage books

Ya mean I hafta go and read all the Centauri books now? Sheesh!
Actually, that's ok. In my search for the Technomage book, I found a few books store that didn't have it, but had the Centauri books. Not all, but one here, two there, and I picked them up along the way.
From what I gathered, the Convocation ceremonies were started at the winter solstice (earth time) and finished New Years eve. I haven't done the math yet, so maybe that's too many days. Folks started gathering, there were practice sessions, trips to other planets, and then the finale (both of them). So, not having read the Centauri series, I don't know what feats the three mages were performing on Centauri. However, they're not to use the tech until they're initiated. Maybe it's a break in the flow of things. JMS mentioned that something G'Kar was doing or involved in was out of sequence with some other event, and it slipped by him. Or, since you mentioned they defer to Galen, perhaps after Kell left the group, the circle re-arranged the rules. I agree that they must have split into two groups, one that went and hid, and one that remained. Which means Galen and Elric split up. "Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger". Odd, isn't it, that when the mages came to Babylon 5, Elric was defending their decision to get the hell out of Dodge, when he was probably the strongest supporter to stay and fight of those in the circle.

Asis, yeah I figured out the static after the Drakh went into puppet mode on their first visit. It was just that I missed it when it was first mentioned. With Babylon 5, you can't afford to miss clues the first time around http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif

Thanks Prof. That'll save me from having to watch all those re-runs trying to find that one epsiode. (And that's a bad thing because...???) http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

well, you all knew i wouldn't agree--

first let me say, suspending my reading of Legions of Fire to read this book? bad idea. this one is not nearly as good.

first my quibbles, then my views,

this book just ain't written well. i skimmed the first hundred pages because i got so bored with the plot line (actually, the lack of plot line). the author makes a very amateurish mistake by introducing too many characterts. she put in 20 characters in the first 40 pages (yes, i was so bored, i went back and counted).

do the math. that's a new character every two pages, on average. to expect decent character development under those circumstances is ridiculous.

in fact, you can start reading this novel on page 141 and hardly miss anything. up until then, only two things of importance happen. morden spies on the mages. and galen discovers he as a "destructive" spell that he shouldn't use.

okay, having vented all that, beginning on page 141, when elric finally addresses the circle about the return of the shadows, the novel gets a lot better. the author borrows rather heavily from tolkien, i think--the debate in the circle over what to do is similar to the debate at the council of elrond in the fellowship of the ring. as with tolkien, there is also a "hold-out," a person with an ulterior agenda, who tries to sabotage the circle's plans.

like wizz, i see interesting links with the legion of fire series. in book two of that series, galen clealy uses his "destruct" spell to destroy a jumpgate. so we know he eventually decides it is "right" and not "wrong" to use this spell. his hatred for the shadows and drakh is also made clear in "casting shadows." no wonder he has little respect for the whims of the leading mages when the drakh unleash their planet-killer. in the case of the techno-mages, the wise elders don't seem to be very wise.

on the whole, though, way too much background information and not enough plot, for me. i think we learned almost as much about the mages in legions of fire and that book was a true page-turner--each chapter forced you to go on to the next one. i read "casting shadows" in one day, but that was mostly because I wanted to start volume iii of legions of fire, and not because "c.s." was all that great.

iz

Iz, I think you left something out. But first, I can see where you're coming from with regard to plot development. In a nutshell, I think this first part is mostly development, character identification, etc. The action comes later. That's how Babylon 5 stories have been, at least to me. Having said that, I'm going to start the Centauri series this weekend, so no telling...my thoughts about this may just change, too.

What you left out was one of plots, that being the foray into shadow territory. Clearly the shadows understand the tech very well, and they have no problem getting around it, or guiding others around it, too. That's how Brunell(?) got taken out so quickly, the shadow could see the real one, and when the "...first one on the left..." was taken out, the rest just vanished. Elizar had some help developing the spike that took Isabell out, too. So, I can understand why the mages want to bail out. Against races other than the Shadows and Vorlons, they can hold their own. Against the Shadows, though, they're toast.

iz, I have to disagree with you. I liked meeting the new characters. We were given a taste of the different personalities that make up the Mage's, their differrent styles, and their different philosophies. Outside of the fact that is very important in understanding the Circle's decision later in the book, we are going to need that info later in the trilogy.

In B5 we were introduced to the major races, their history, religion, government, and the like over the course of 5 years. So we did not need that info in the Centauri books, we already knew it. We knew nothing of the Mage's, other then they went beyond the rim and could change crystals into orange blossoms. Something needed to be done to give us more info about who they were and how they worked.

On a different subject, in re-reading the first 141 pages of the book, I found the name of an Chrysallis stage Mage who is initiated with Galen, Elizar, Razeel, Isabelle, Carvin, Gowen, Fed, and the rest. His name is Kane. Elizar pulls aside Galen to talk to him in the training building and motions to Kane and his friends, basicly says they are really unfit to be Mages.

So this only furthers my confusion. If Kane is intiated with Galen and the rest, we know he has the tech. We know, from Elric and others, that once a Mage has the tech, they are considered full Mages. They will still learn from their teacher but they will be sent to explore and learn on their own, eventually establishing their own places of power. No where is it mentioned that they are called Cloister Mages.

So I remain baffeled as to what the difference is between a Cloister Mage and a full Mage.

Wizz, all you have to do is look at the dates. Your right, the convocation ends on New Years, which is the end point of every season on B5. Also, Kosh mentions that Sinclair had been sent to Minbar to begin to take his place, that has to be at the end of Season 1. OK, so I have most of the season 1 episodes memorized because it is my favorite season and didn't need the other info but it is provided.

Too many characters is too many characters.

[P.C. you are SUCH an apologist for all things B5 (Sheridan excepted)]!

The leaders of the Circle and their immediate apprentices (that's about 12 characters right there) I could live with. They all play major parts throughout the novel. But who the hell if Fa? Or Fed, for that matter. What, did the "f" key get stuck when they were typing this up?

And did we really need a whole chapter on Jab and Des and Farmer Jae and Farmer Nee? It's almost a deliberate attempt to take a book that would have been good at 225 pages and stretch it to 336.

Like watering down the beer, mate. You might have more in quantity but the quality definitely suffers. Jeanne Cavelos should have a couple of sammy's before she starts on Vol. 2.

see

you get me started and i think up more things to complain about--

like anna

how anna got corrupted by the shadows is something we all want to know. but here we are introduced to her already corrupted. we have no idea what she was like when she first landed on z-ha-dum or how she became such a willing tool of the shadows.

okay, maybe this gets covered in some latter part of the trilogy. but what a poor place to begin. how much more evil and intimidating to see the "eye" looming up over her, just after the destruction of the icarus, flaying her mind with the choice--join us and save yourself and some of your companions or refuse us and watch what we will do to them in front of you.

we can't sympathize with anna because when we first see her, she's already evil. we needed to know what she was like before the shadows touched her.


oh--bad book, bad book, bad bad book.

Not an apologist, I just enjoyed the book. The scene with the people of Soom was meant to introduce us to the population and the day to day life of Elric and Galen on Soom. It is no different then showing people eating meals on B5, and we saw that plenty of times.

If I was an apologist, I seriously doubt that I would point out the inconsistencies that I do and try to figure out what happened. My last two posts have focused on some problems I have seen in how a Mage becomes a Mage.

I enjoy new characters, it is one of the reasons I like this book. We have meet three of the characters in the series, Galen, Elric, and Alwyn and four in the books, Kane, Finaian, Gwynn, and Galen. All in all, we barely got to know these characters. We know nothing about how the Technomages operate.

Here is a surprise, since I study political science, I love learning more about how society runs, what rules a group of individuals live under, and how those rules are established. I find the interaction between individuals fascinating.

So in the first 141 pages, which you dislike and I enjoyed, we meet many new characters who will probably play a role in the future books. We learn how the Mages are goverened, how their laws are established, and how they interact. We see the newest Mages begin to define who they are and what role they will play in the future (Elizar as leader, Galen as a Mage with potential. Isabelle as someone who will challenge the rules, Carvin as a skilled mage who could careless about power ect....)

Please do not assume that because I may be interested in different aspects of the novel then you, that I am trying to apologize for what you dislike. What it means is that I have different tastes then you and there is nothing wrong with that.

Iz,

Have you read the Shadow Within (Book 7). That pretty much covers the Icarus Landing on Z'ha'dum and the Shadows taking over the passengers and crew of the Icarus.

sind--no, haven't even see that title, but i'll look for it.

pc--hey, you were the one who went into the legions of fire topic and told everyone to stop reading the series because "casting shadows" rocked and you wanted to discuss it right away.

i stopped reading a first rate series to read a second rate book. so you can't expect me to load on the praise.

by the way, for the benefit of other posters:

if pc and i ever agreed on anything, the universe would immediately come to an end, and you and everyone you love would implode at the speed of light.

so count you're lucky stars we are arguing--

iz

Oh Iz,

A PS, just looked at the Lurkers Guide.

Jeanne Cavelos is also the author of The Shadow Within (Book 7), so maybe that's why she skipped any depth on Anna and Morden at Z'ha'dum, 'cause she assumed you had read her other B5 book.

iz, yup I did because I think Casting Shadows is a better book. Not to mention, it is alot easier to read one book then three, meaning it is easier to get to a point were people can discuss the book.

I could care less that you dislike the book or if you find things in it that you don't enjoy. That is your opinion. What bothers me is that you see an opinion that differs from yours as being an "apologist" instead of someone who disagrees with you.

I would suggest reading Book 7, it is pretty good and focuses entirly on John and Anna Sheridan. It explores what happened to the Icarus, what they found, what happened to them, and how the people involved made the decisions that they did. JMS has said that it is 90% canon, no idea what part of the book he would say is off. You even learn a bit more about Morden.

Kimball, since she followed an outline given toher by JMS, I am sure there is a reason for Anna and Kosh appearing in the book beyond what we have seen so far.

Beyond that, it was Anna's appearence that made me think back to the scans that Franklin had taken oof her. The ones where he located the implants in the back of her neck. The implants that connected her to the Shadow ship and allowed her to control the ship. The implants that appear to be very similar to the Mages implants at the back of their neck where the chrysallis connects for three years. The implant that stores information on how a Mage cast spells and the like so that they can control the organic tech that is placed in their bodies at initiation. The chrysallis that is used to build their places of power, control their ships,a nd assorted other tools (staffs and amulets)

Sure the only mention of the Shadow ships could have come from the Narn and then later attack on the Narn at the end of the book. But instead we are treated to a few pages showing how Anna has merged with the ship. Coincidental? Knowing JMS (who wrote the outline, including the characters that he wanted introduced and setting of the book) I think not.

okay, i will not longer comment on how bad this book was (ooops, did I just slip up?) and stick only to content.

of which there was very little (ooops! sooooory! this is going to be harder than i thought).

in which case i do find it intriguing that Morden was able to essentially scout the entire convocation without being spotted as a shadow agent.

now, i think from elric, we learn that this was do to all the confusion caused by the conflict between galen and elizar.

but if i remember correctly, it is pretty clear that morden caused this confusion, possibly by influencing galen during the casting of the "destruction" spell.

how morden could do this, since he isn't a mage or a telepath, i don't quite get.

it also seems like the mages are not a "society" in the same sense as the humans, minbari, narn, or centauri. each mage seems to have his own agenda and his own priorities. they don't seem very good at reaching consensus or acting in unison.

which would make them very easy prey for the divide and conquer tactics of the shadows.

[okay, count them up; that's almost 200 words without casting any aspersions on the techinical aspects of creative writing in this novel.]

The Shadow Within

The Lurkers Guide has a nice summary of the book

Morden has nothing to do with Galen's spell gone bad. He is there in the background observing. Galen's spell changes because he attempts to alter it. Isabelle saw that, Galen comments on it, the sensor pad shows it, ect....

Morden is at there to try and find supporteres among the Mages, note he asked the Mages what they wanted. Elizar is already a Shadow agent. He probably tells Morden about Galen's spell after the disaster at the morning training session. Elizar has also told the Shadows that he will get Isabelle and Galen to swear loyalty to him and spends a fair amount of time with both Galen and Isabelle trying to convince them that the Circle is withholding information.

Why Galen and Isabelle? Galen seems like a natural recruit. Elizar and he share a dream of returning the Technomages to glory (I know, it was in that boring 141 pages that you had to read so its not really important). Galen is also a student of a member of the circle who shows great promise, Kell is interested in him and not in Fed (the fourth initiate who is being trained by a circle member). Isabelle is apprenticed to a bit of a rogue who has some knowledge of how the tech works. Want to make a bet that the Shadows would love to have that info? Add to that, Isabelle is a strong Mage, she is able to defeat Elizar in a battle in the trianing arena.

So Elizar knows of two chrysallis stage Mages that could be very strong allies and who are more likely to follow him. Galen because he wants to see the Mages respected by the Universe again and Isabelle who is strong, wants to understand the technology, and is probably unhappy with the Circle because of her mothers treatment.

So when Elizar approaches Isabelle, Morden is there to observe. Is Elizar capable of what he says? Are these other Mage's strong enough?

When Elric sees Morden in the image, he puts together that Morden is not just an envoy of the Rook (back to those annoying 141 pages) but something else. He digs into Morden's past and pieces together what happened to him, and that he is suppose to be dead, and then tells Galen not to have any contact with Morden.

Hey, just to prove I actually did read the thing, Elric's revelation about Morden is NOT in the aforementioned "annoying 141 pages" but in Chapter 9.

I did get the impression here that Morden was involved in Galen's spell-casting. However, the passage I was thinking of actually refers to Morden first appearance in the novel, when he shows his credentials to Elric. "As Elric looked at it now, the situation struck him as a sloppy attempt at misdirection: generate chaos to avoid scrutiny." Morden had apparently upset some type of cargo and thus distracted Elric from questioning him too closely about why he was on Soom.

Further investigation by Elric shows that Morden is asking everyone "What do you want?" and this, as much as anything, convinces Elric he is an agent of the Shadows.

Actually Iz, I got the impression PC was referring to Morden's claim that he was an emissary of the Rook when she referenced the first 141 pages.

Well, i've always thought of the techno-mages as gutless wonders. Some species bailed in the shadow war after getting trounced. The mages decided to bail without even trying. It's significant, i think, that in all subsequent B5 stories (Call to Arms, Legion of Fire) it is renegade mages that actually come out of hiding to help other races.

I've got no problem with background as long as it isn't crammed down my throat in 100 non-stop pages. Frankly, i still think the story, up until page 141, is mostly filler--the kind of notes and background that an author keeps in a drawer for their own information, but which in this case was stuck between covers as a "novel." It's almost like someone took JMS's notes and printed them, then added a few connective fragments of dialog. I've been in enough creative writing workshops to know that that's poor technique, so when i see it in print, it gets my ire up.

Legions of Fire makes a good comparison. in that series, the author holds back information, dropping it into the plot bit by bit, so you are always hoping he will tell you more. he could have started the novel be giving us the entire history of the drakh--but that would have killed the story. There are surprises in that book right up to the very last chapter.

The strong point in Casting Shadows was the intigue of the Circle--much more could have been done with that. The confrontation with the shadows was more like a cop show car chase than something I would have expected from the B5 universe.

And the appearance of Mr. Morden on the cover--well, let's face it--it was just window dressing to help sell the book. We learn nothing new about Mr. Morden in this book (okay, except that he routes for Michigan State in basketball and grew up in Summit, New Jersey). He isn't really all that important in the plot, and not nearly as chilling or insidious as he was from the very first in the T.V. series. It would have been better to leave out the drakh and the shadows so that Galen and Isabella had to directly confront Morden and deal with him. If you're gonna have a formidable adversary, you should at least use him.

Now--don't get me wrong. It's not like I hate this book. I just really really really really (really) don't like it.

iz

on the mages in legions of fire

well, my guess is that galen will be to the techno-mages what delenn was to the minbari. he will probably be inducted into the Circle and will then break the Circle, refusing to do things by council, and creating a New Order. he was clearly on the outs with the council in crusade. galen is a "new" kind of mage and i think with his coming the Circle will be dissolved.

the cloister mages appear to have a mandate to go out and advise--the same sort of mandate the vorlons had--but they are closely watched by full mages. this goes along with my feeling that in the post-Shadow War galaxy, the drakh are the new instruments of darkness (the lesser shadows) and the techno-mages are the new observers and advisors (the lesser vorlons). thus the doings of the first ones still influence events, they just no longer dominate them.

in fact, from what i recall, the drakh and the techno-mages are antithetical, just like the shadows and the vorlons. each sees the other as "wrong" as as interfering in the natural course of things. which makes me wonder if the mages weren't, in fact, some sort of creation of the vorlons rather than the shadows. the vorlons, after all, created telepaths, and the shadows immediately tried to co-op this creation to their own use. the vorlons don't seem to like the way the mages have grown in power over time--but this could just be another example of a vorlon experiment that they later regretted.

Well I've been following PC and Iz's debates and I gotta tell ya Iz. I disagree with ya about that first 141 pages. I'm still only on page 100 and I see the set ups for alot of the things you two have been debating. Setting up Isabel through Burell as the scientist. Morden going around asking "The Question". Morden representing himself as just the envoy for the Rook. The chrysalis background. The way everyone goes around marking everything with a rune. Galen has already used his spell a 2nd time (involuntarily a second time). The list goes on.

I think this Trilogy is starting out the same way threads get exposed in the series. Briefly mention it in Act one, set it up in Act 2, tip over all the tables in Act 3.

i don't debate the information, just the presentation. what can i say. i skimmed pages 40 to 100 because, although there were lots of things said, it wasn't enjoyable reading. it was slow, needlessly digressive, and just didn't have much in the way of suspense or foreboding to make me want to turn the next page. everything that was done in 141 pages could have been done in 75.

maybe i dislike this book because i had just finished two books in the legions of fire series which were very fast-paced, very well constructed, and has a cliff-hanger at the end of every chapter. in any case, the praise heaped upon the technomage book on the inside cover and back flap is just plain bull--i wouldn't ever trust a review by those folks again.

i didn't like sherri tepper's Grass, either, for much the same reason. too slow. lots of people disagreed. i guess that's good for tepper, because she wouldn't make a living off of readers like me.

:-)

Morden's first appearence is bringing the crates of food for the gathering, that is when he introduced himself as an emissary of the Rook. Elric's comment in chapter 9 comes after he places Morden as an observer at eh time Galen's cast the spell. Elric then remembers Morden's first appearence, the mess with the food, as an attempt to misdirect his presence at the convocation.

Ssssshhhhhhh!

My copy arrived this afternoon.....

LOL, well read it already Ian!

I liked this book,especially the begining, but I tend to like character interaction more than action http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif

on elizar

okay, galen is clearly the protagonist in this series and elizar is clearly the antagonist. that means there well eventually be a reckoning between the two.

it could come in book two, with book three being dedicated to the shadow war; or it could be that elizar survives the war and book three will end with a final confrontation between him and galen.

does anyone remember if elizar made an appearance in crusade. i recall one episode on the well of souls, or whatever it was; and i thought there was another one in which galen went off on a quest for private vengeance, tracking down another technomage.