Don't start with me, PC, I am just finishing Season 1 tonight. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/tongue.gif
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Don't start with me, PC, I am just finishing Season 1 tonight. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/tongue.gif
Season 2 is about to begin. (grumbles loudly)
Let me get this out of the way eeary on, ok
AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
WHY GOD WHY
YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME
BRING BACK SINCLAIR
AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH
Thank you for your patience
*Slaps PC* There, better now?
And what about the no spoilers, hmm?????? Bad PC!
"Bad PC" ???
I don't see any spoilers in her post. She's venting, yes. Predicting? Nooooo....
When you posted it, it was a spoiler. Chrysalis aired Thursday night. You posted Sinclair is gone on Friday, before Points of Departure aired. It was a spoiler.
[This message has been edited by MerleZ (edited April 16, 2001).]
Ah.
Much apologizing.
We also need to find out what timezone Ery is in ( I think she's the only first-time-watcher). Timing is everything.
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A person needs only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the tape.
LOL, it is not a spoiler for Season 2.
*whacks Crash for starting the topic early.*
So it is not a spoiler. And one shouldn't read the Season 2 topic thinking we will be saying things, "Gee wonder what happens in Season 2?" http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
LOL, I'm with AsIs, it is the Season 2 topic and had it been the wrong topic (S1) then it wouldn't have been a spoiler after 7:00 eastern time because Ery sees it at 7:00 Eastern time.
And I think it's good that we start the topic rolling for Ery and any other First Timers.
Ery may not be the only person watching for the first time. I'm sorry to nit pick such a minor point, when I was only teasing Crash in the first point, but it's a frelling spoiler when you post what happens before the ep airs. I don't care what topic it's in, if it's early, it's early. With all due respect to AsIs and Sindatur.
LOL, touche Merle http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
Mea Culpa. I posted prior to the episode airing. My bad, won't do it again.
How about tonights ep?
Geometry of Shadows.
What an episode. The Drazi, Purple/Green Feud. Always a welcome viewing. The Technomage storyline. This was so great seeing this after having read, especially the first Technomage book, and less so after reading the Centauri Prime Trilogy.
Ery, hope you taped this one. When the series is all done for you, you'll want to expand your knowledge of the TEchnomages by viewing Crusade Series and also by reading the Centauri Trilogy and The Technomage Trilogy. Don't go there before you finish the B5 Series though, too many spoilers could creep in. I really enjoyed seeing this with all the knowledge we gained frrom the 1st Technomage novel. So much of the mystery has now been explained and things mean so much more this time. Even more than they did the last time I saw this episode on Scifi Channel's first run of it.
This <u>was</u> a good episode. All of the predictive conversations with Londo and Lord Refa & Elric and Sheridan. What was neat was watching the Crusade episode right after it. These two episodes with the book tied in kind of nicely.
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
This eisode left me wondering about the techno mages. Who were they? How were they selected? What did they know that most folks didn't? How did Elric change that crystal into an orange blossom (complete with the appropriate scent)? The Mages are by far one of the more intriguing races in the B5 universe.
I also enjoyed watching Londo in this episode. He is so desperate to gain power back home that he is willing to anger the Mages. No offense, but if you know a race's greatest strength is their mastery of technology, why would you try to bug a meeting with that race? The Narn opera and the holo demons were fun to watch. Londo suffered immediate consequences for his actions, which was nice to see.
Elric's prediction about Londo's future struck me as being more then a wee bit scary. One only hopes that it causes Londo to change his ways.
I loved the Drazi storyline. The Drazi are a reasonably dense race, arn't they? The idea of choosing leadership by drawing colors out of a basket and then fighting one another seems rather arbitraty. Does this mean that all of the leadership for the Drazi comes form the winning color? I wish some of the consequences for this little fight were mentioned. It strikes me as a unique method of governance.
Garibaldi troubles me in this ep. The playing with the PPG when Sheridan walked in could not be a good thing. It is clear that he does not know where he stands or what he should do. Nice to see Sheridan reaching out to him.
Pet Peeve time, ok SInclair is gone. Garibaldi was at B5 only because Sinclair insisted on his appointment. It was clear form season 1 that Garibaldi and Sinclair were friends. So why is it that in the two episodes that Garibaldi has not been in a coma, Sinclair has only been mentioned once, adn that was in passing. I really wish JMS had focused a bit more on this. Have Franklin or Ivanova talk to Garibaldi about Sinclair's departure. Something (shrugs)
Might I suggest that comments about the books and what info they may hold might best be held in the books or Crusade topic. I am not sure that it is nice to be tempting Ery with info about the Mages and the like here.
For the record: I'm on Pacific time, and B-5 comes on for me at 4 PM PDT. Sindatur (good news about the upcoming job, bud!), I haven't been able to synch the VCR with our digital cable, so no tapes. Shoot!!
Season 2 is certainly as packed with layers of plots as an onion, and, unlike PC, I'm philosophical about Sinclair's departure. Given the realities of actors as employees, I can see how difficult it must be to try to work in any transitions.
Boy, Delenn's transformation... Pow! I assumed early on from what little I'd seen (pix, etc) that it was done because the makeup was getting tiresome, but seeing it happen and hearing the reasons why (WILL they test her for genetic changes??) was pretty amazing.
I did love the Drazi fight and Ivanova's futile efforts to try and stop it. Early on I was thinking she'd just take the sashes away from everyone, and when SHE became Green leader... ROFL!
The technomages certainly ARE intriguing. And Elric (I forget the actor who played him but he was excellent... both menacing and benevolent) discussing magic with Sheridan was so intriguing. There's something childlike about Sheridan's wonder, and I like it that he's a very different man from Sinclair; I think it would have been a mistake to try and replicate Sinclair character.
Elric's comments about the darkness in Londo were most chilling. From the beginning I was going to write Londo off as a buffoon, but he goes through as many changes as everyone else, from light to dark.
That's it for thoughts so far this morning; I'm still annoyed that I lost my wrapup of Season I last week...damn Hostboard anyhoo for eating my post!
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The Red Witch
True Names by Vernor Vinge
[email protected]
Ery yeah it is nice that Sheridan is a totally different person then Sinclair. Trying to make a clone of Sinclair would have been a bad, bad idea.
I also like that Ivanova has a past with Sheridan. Since the two of them worked together before, it makes the transition a bit easier. Esentially it decreases the amount of time needed in order to show how the crew adjusts to Sheridan. the others look to Ivanova for cues about Sheridan and I am sure she smoothed over some ruffeled feathers there. It is interesting to see how comfortable she is with Sheridan, she never seemed as comfortable with Sinclair. (shrugs)
I also like the fact that the Minbari soooo despise him. we get to see a side of the Minbari that we just did not see when Sinclair was on the station. Granted Neroon was ready to start a war over Bremar's (sp) missing body but that was one person. From what we have seen so far, none of the Minbari seem to like Sheridan.
It is intersting to see how G'Kar and Londo react to Sheridan as well. Londo seems to be interested in trying to get on Sheridan's good side. OK, so he failed miserably when he bugged Sheridan's office but he was trying to manipulate the situation and Sheridan to his benefit.
You do get the feeling that Sheridan is a wee bit more naive when dealing with diplomats then Sinclair was. I mean, Sheridan barely tried to figure out why Londo was so willing to help with the Techno Mages.
ery if you want to knwo more about what happened to Sinclair, go to the Lurkes Guide and read the synopsis of the first four Comic Books. They deal with Sinclair's move to Minbar and how he was treated by the Minbari. The art was horrible but for those of us who could not get enough of Sinclair they were a nice temporary fix. (grins) No spoilers in the first four comic books either, they came out while the series was still airing and presented no problems for people.
I may be in the minority here, but I liked the Sheridan character. I think he is a bit naive, and ruled by his passions. He's a simple man, as well. He's takes a simple approach to most things. His universe has very little gray in it.
The look on his face when Delenn pulled off her hood was priceless. I'd assume he'd seens pictures of her from her file. Everyone else seems pretty dumbstruck too.
I missed the technomage ep last night, but remember it pretty well. Vir is pretty amusing in this one. And like everyone else, I loved how Sheridan reacted to the technomage.
And of course, Susan dealing with the Drazi is a great ep for her. Crash, yeah, it's a rather dumb method of governing, and I've always accepted it as amusing rather than realistic. One doubts that a race that governs itself this way could really reach the stars.
Londo's darkness. Yeah, he is really getting power hungry here. You begin to wonder where, if anywhere, he'll stop, don't you?
I'm anxiously awaiting tonight's ep, another of my favorites from this season. Enjoy, Ery, and any other first timers who may be lurking out there!
Crash said, "Might I suggest that comments about the books and what info they may hold might best be held in the books or Crusade topic. I am not sure that it is nice to be tempting Ery with info about the Mages and the like here." Yup, I agree. And we should all be careful about trying to point out the "important things for later" as no one could do that for us. We had the joy of arguing over minor points that we found out later on had no significance, and completely missing other stuff.
Hi Merley, I appreciate your circumspection regarding spoilers for me, I'm having lots of fun watching the second series unfold.
Vir's definitely developing either a stronger backbone or thicker skin -- I loved his response when Elric stated, "you don't frighten easily!" LOL!
Tonight was fun too, though heavens know I need to go on a diet, Dr. Franklin's sudden enthusiasm for menu planning's going over like a lead balloon.
Quite an interesting side plot tonight, juxtaposed against some good old fashioned adventure with the rescue of the Cortez. The Minbari don't know what to make of Delenn, do they, and it makes me wonder if they'll machinate to replace her as ambassador.
Merle, I like Sheridan too (ow! quit swatting me, PC!). I like his openness - when he's got the blues about his friend Jack's adventures, it's comparatively easy for Susan to get him to talk about it. I like the quotes he comes up with.
It'd be easy to write him off as a comparatively superficial character next to Sinclair's complex history, but he's got a different depth to him. It made me cry last night when he got a chance to say goodbye to his wife.
Still, shadows are definitely gathering... it seems that the shadow ships are seen or alluded to in every show now.
Brrr! There's a bad moon on the rise....
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The Red Witch
True Names by Vernor Vinge
[email protected]
(giggles)
People are allowed to like Sheridan. Just cause I don't and I am always right should not deter anyone from liking the character. (grins)
My problem with Sheridan, he comes off as a naive boy scout and that is it. No depth. By this time in Season 1 we had a real idea that there was alot in Sinclair's past that was really intriging. For Sheridan we have a deceased wife that he misses. Not bad as character development but not on par with a missing 24 hours at the line that caused the Minbari to send one of their leaders tio B5 as an Ambassador to keep an eye on him. Heck, at least with Ivanova we watched her go through the mourning process when her father died.
At this point in the story I remember thinking that Sheridan was boring and a pretty boy. After last nights episode I tossed "whiner" into my description of him. Every fighter pilot knows that eventually they are going to have to stop flying and work behind a desk. Every ships Captin knows that eventaully you leave the sea and end up behind a desk. Its the nature of the business, as you go up the ranks yur responsibility changes. Not saying that people like it but they handle it. Sheridan is handed a prime command and he pouts. (shakes her head)
Sorry, but Sheridan is a long ways away from making me like him as a character. No doubt that he is charismatic but there is something missing in him. I have always had the feeling that JMS went for the "hero" role for Sheridan and forgot to fill out the rest.
(shrugs)
If you are going to have a hero, why not make one who is interesting and not just the poster child hero?
Crash, I agree that Sheridan's past is not as interesting as Sinclair's. Hell, whose would be? But we are seeing him dealing with the loss of his wife, even after three years, I think it is, his regret at the things he hadn't said to her. He's obviously still madly in love with her, and having a hard time moving on from that. Being married, I can understand a bit of his pain, and really empathize with him.
And now we see just how frustrated he is at becoming a politician and a desk jocky. Yeah, it's the nature of the military that eventually you lose your field command to a desk, but John's still very young for that. He's still just a Captain, commander of only one ship. He hasn't even risen to a fleet commander yet. Lot's of ship's commanders are older than him. Last night's ep showed us his first CO, who is still out chasing stars. Any wonder John would feel a little blue over that? And with John's background, we know he's good at commanding ships, so no wonder he's chafing. He never trained to be a diplomat, and doesn't feel like he's very good at it. He's a soldier. He gives orders, people obey. He may be used to the politics of the chain of command, but dealing with umpteen alien races.... Which reminds me, great line when he asked Ivanova if the one race (name escapes me) really had feathers.
Yes, Ery, we seem to be seeing a lot of those shadowy ships. This time, it appeared to me that the thing accidentally killed Keffer's commander. Just flat ran over him. Wonder if it even noticed them there? Scary looking things, aren't they?
And Ery, John's full of some great quotes, yep. I always enjoyed his sense of history.
I'm thinking that Sheridan's settling into his role at B5 a bit more. Sure, I detected a few whines last night after his friend, Jack's visit, but I think that's understandable. Hell for the first two weeks of a new job I always felt like "this was a big mistake, why did I do this?!"
Tonight's episode again seems to foreshadow bad times to come, with references to the past coming quite often after the Copernicus, with its unauthorized cargo, docks.
Off for a ride. More thoughts to come!
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The Red Witch
True Names by Vernor Vinge
[email protected]
I enjoyed The Long Dark, it was a stand alone episode that gives us a better look into Garibaldi's psyche and some more info on the Earth minbari war. Up until this ep I had always thought that the war was fought pretty much mainly in space. In this episode we learn that there was a fairly serious ground war fought and we get more of a feel for what Garibaldi was up to.
Soul Mates: For quite a few episodes now, we've seen Talia defending the PsiCorps, but we've seen things happen to her and we've seen her start to show some "dis-satisfaction" with the Corps. Tonight she finally comes out and says that the PsiCorps "scares the hell" out of her.
Soul Mates
"...because I always know where I stand with you". [Londo to Timov]. Londo walks away, and Timov is, for the first time I believe, caught without something to say. It's funny to think that with so many major decisions that Londo gets wrong, how many there were that were minor, and yet so right. How he naturally does the right thing without thinking, but as the conniving, politics, plotting the future, anticipating your opponents next move comes into play, his thinking is so short-sighted.
Just for reference, Timov (vomit spelled backwards) is Famine, Mariel is Death, and Daggair is Pestilence. Last one, War, is Londo himself. Peter David is the one who claims to have set the names to the people.
Garibaldi. It was right in front of him, right at the beginning. He watches as one traveler berates another, only to find that conversation doing a 180 with the second traveler saying nothing. How that doesn't kick off a "telepath aleart" with Michael is beyond me. Should have been more subtle. Talia's rebuke at the lift, then subsequent apology in Garibaldi's quarters was a second missed indicator. Garibaldi gets the "chowderhead" award for his efforts this time. I'm kind of curious why they didn't give Stoner some sleeper's rather than take a chance of keeping him under control. No telling how many he could control at the same time, but we know he could easily handle two.
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
Garibaldi does figure it out, although it takes alot. Talia's being upset that he is interfering is not all that hard to understand, especialy since she knows that he has lusted after her since day one. So I don't really see that as a cue.
This is an intersting episode. It is the seocnd ep were we learn that the Psi Corp is experimenting on telepaths and the effects of the experiments. Both time, Talia has been right in the middle of it.
I do wonder where Talia's sudden fear of the Corp is coming from. The info from Spider in the Web has to be racing through her mind, although I am not sure how much she really knows. Enough to scare her I guess.
I did like the small museum on Earth History , thought it was a nice touch.
What Ir eally liked about this episode was watching Delenn try to come to grips with her human side now. (grins) The whole hair situation, and Lenniers reaction to it, was great. I really liked that last question in the tube "Why have I started getting these strange cramps?" Ivanova's face was priceless. How the heck do you explain menstraution to a Minbari?
One of the things I have always enjoyed about B5 is that JMS explores some of the more day to day parts of life, like hair styles and food. I think it was the first Sci Fi sereis that I ever saw a bathroom in...
Ahh what a good episode. The underground railroad for telepaths and fooling Bester. What fun (big grin)
It is interesting to watch the character of Talia grow. At first she is a gung ho Psi Corp supporter and now she is willing to work to subvert the Corp. Makes ya kind of wonder why. Granted, she has seen things that have ade her question the Corp but after growing up in the Corp, you would think it would take more then she has seen to start to make her turn on the Corp. Helping rogue teeps is huge, which means that she has come 180 from where we first saw her.
Finally the character of Franklin starts to become intersting. Granted we have seen him do some cool stuff but for the most part he has been pretty one dimensional. Now we get to see just how far he is willing to go to help those in need. Franklin really puts himself out there when he does not have to. Now to see where this leads.
An intersting episode. Good stuff
Funny, most of Dr. Franklin's adventures come from downbelow. And with all the different exposures, his principles never waver.
Ironheart certainly gave her a nifty gift. Nice to move penny's around ( you mean to tell me with credits floating around, penny's still survive?) the room and embed them in the wall (with out distortion, I might add). But, the ability to block Bester...wow. Even as Bester was leaving, the scan didn't turn up anything against her. That look of "Is there something else?" on her as he finally headed for the gate was priceless. At the end, she's even gotten Ivanova up out of bed for a little chat. Life is starting to look good for Talia.
Oh. Delenn is starting to look pretty good at times. Getting stared at at dinner, for instance. "Is there something I can help you with?" [Sheridan] Yeah, dumbass, you can help by not blocking the view!
This half-human/half-minbari should be quite interesting as things progress.
If I remember correctly, Talia got to see the underside of Psi-Corp the first time in the comic book series. Which was a prequel to B5.
Then you add Ironheart, Stoner, and everyone of the stories that the runaways told her. I think she had good reason to fear the corps. They may be mother and father, but sometimes, mom and dad can be pretty damn scary.
And remember, she didn't simply hear the stories for the Rogue teeps. If they were making any skin contact she got to relive it as they told it. Even without skin contact, she probably saw it from their memories as the told it. The feelings would have been strong enough.
Just my two cents.
What a week this is turning out to be! Talia's eyes are opened to the Psi Corp, the Centauri emperor dies, Sinclair leaves some interesting messages for a couple of old friends! Egads!
What an incredible episode: with "The Coming of Shadows" I'm seeing references clear back *and it now seems a long time ago* to the very first epidodes: Londo's dream reiterates something he said about his death, in a future old age, at the hands of G'Kar.
It'll be interesting to see what happens next: will the Rangers flush out the shadows? Will Sinclair & co bluff Londo into confessing his role? He sure looked ready to fall when G'Kar bought him a drink; his face was priceless!
WONDERFUL ep all around!
Sinclair is back (sighs with a happy smile on her face)
OK so it was one episode but it made me happy. (grins)
Rangers, what are they? huh? You get the feeling that they are an interesting group but I am not sure about how good they are at hiding. I mean Garibaldi caught the one Ranger pretty easily.
Londo takes the dive off of the high dive straight into hell. There is no getting around the fact that Londo is now in for a heap of trouble, both on the giving end and on the recieiving end. I wonder what it would have taken to convince Londo he was wrong.
The try tragedy here is that G'Kar was just begining to open to the idea of talking to the Centauri and figuring out a solution to their historical mess. Hey look the sun is shining, ummm why is there a sudden eclipse....
This is why I watch B5. Not because I like watching depressing shows but because I enjoy a show were almost every episode ratches the intensity up a notch. Where there are no easy solutions and good intentions are tossed aside due to political reality.
Note on the Rangers. Did you notice the emblem the Ranger was wearing? The pin with the carved green stone? Reminds me of The Lord of the Rings, Aragorn the Ranger, and the green stone he was given by Galadriel. Hmm, just a thought, but did JMS ever say if the Rangers were an influence from Tolkien?
Merley, sometimes writers are influenced by other writers even when they TRY not to be :-)
Between last night and today, I feel we're getting hip-deep in murky missions. I knew that Sheridan would be in for it when he said "what could possibly go wrong?"
I loved the friction between Franklin Sr. and Jr. last night, and the GROPOS certainly made the station lifely. But poor Garibaldi, he screws up his personal life even when he's TRYING not to, eh? Dodger was a great character, so full of life. This ep is a great anti-war statement.
And today... well, what an interesting development! Delenn's fall was somewhat anticipated, but to be replaced by a member of the Warrior caste doesn't bode well for Earth-Minbar relations, does it?!
And the unfolding of the earthforce resistence efforts to the probable Psi-Corp-instigated assassination of Pres. Santiago. Well boy, howdy, things are getting FUN.
Nope he didn't and I would be surprised if he did that delibritly. Normally when he did something to honor another author or piece of work he let people know about it.
It could be a direct acknowledgement to Tolkein. I don't recall JMS ever saying so, though. Also, one of the ways (in the past, anyway) that you could get a response from JMS was alluding to "Babylon 5" as <u>Lord of the Rings</u> with the serial numbers filed off. He went to great lengths one time as how original story lines could be seen as "similar to..." a story made sometime before. Which is true. Worse case was probably the Star Trek references, outside of perhaps DS9. While all this doesn't negate that the emblem the Rangers wear came from Tolkein, I'd be inclined to say that the similarities are probably more coincidence than anything else.
He did acknowledge some influences from Tolkien though, didn't he? At least I am certain I've read his comments where he's read LotR and is very familiar with it.
GROPO's was a very strong episode. I like the fact that JMS makes a point to show the deceased instead of just having someone read off their names. It makes a much larger impact that way.
Delenn's fall was impressive, not to mention important. For the first time in 1,000 years one of the Castes holds more power then the others. So now the Warrior caste has 4 members on the Grey Council, while the Worker has 3 and Religious has 2. Not good at all.
It was nice to see Neroon again, even if he is a bit pig headed and anti-Human.
...and Lennier. Talk about loyalty. I didn't realize how much taller he was than Delenn, either. Elevator shoes? Or, maybe just his stature grew. Too bad he wasn't allowed in the council chambers. Neroon would have had his hands full!
I missed "Gropos". Got home and someone had the VCR recording some movie that went beyond the time Babylon 5 was airing. Just gonna have to find the tape and watch it. I loved the part Marie Marshall played as "Dodger". Poor Garibaldi...doesn't know what he wants, just that he wants it after it's too late. The last scene with the dead soldiers has to be one of the more dramatic scenes to be scripted for a show. Reminds me of the one time there was no music at the end of a Dr. Who episode. Quite an impact.
Was last nights episode the first time we've encountered the Streib? I'll have to say that even though space ships don't have to be symetrical to travel, this ship was one of the goofiest designs I've seen. I also noticed that the Narn Sheridan was fighting is the same actor that played Nelson Drake in <u>Infection</u> (the assistant that was transformed into the ultimate warrior), Marshall Teague.
Ery, I have to think that the whole concept of "Rangers" protecting the frontiers comes from LotR, despite whatever JMS may say. Heck, Tolkien stole nearly his whole mythology from the Norse.
Gropos - I always, always, always love Paul Winfield. He's a very underappreciated actor. Wonderful job he did in "Darmok" on TNG. I remember him as the Judge in that Harrison Ford movie where he was framed for murder ("Presumed Innocent"?).
Yes, the politics on Minbar are getting nasty. Funny how they act all superior toward humans, and then are all petty toward each other. Neroon's sure a jerk. I'd like to see Sinclair go a few rounds with him.
A pretty good Sheridan episode too. Yup, writing was on the wall when he said what could possibly go wrong? I liked the way he made the Narn stop fighting with him. And the dream was cool. Get to wonder what that all meant, for sure.