Ah...Season 4. More answers, more questions. Just keep in mind that we're avoiding spoiling for folks just tuned into Babylon 5 (Although she's out riding a motorcycle and will miss the first week's worth)
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Ah...Season 4. More answers, more questions. Just keep in mind that we're avoiding spoiling for folks just tuned into Babylon 5 (Although she's out riding a motorcycle and will miss the first week's worth)
http://www.pwrhouse.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Hmmmm...so far, the three ladies have gone off to Za'ha'dum in search for a dead man, Garibaldi shows back up, but has definately been tinkered with (mentally), Lorien takes part in the death of a Vorlon along with Sheridan and what ever was left of the original Kosh. Then, to make matters worse, Sheridan orders the death of a Ranger in charge of a White Star. Compounding on that (Oh, yes! There's more!!!), everyone shows up at Coriana 6 with all their planet killers and the like, the Shadows and the Vorlons plead their case, and Lorien says it's "Time for us to go" or something like that, and all the first ones bail out of the galaxy.
Talk about topics for discussion!</p>
Uh...where?</p>
Tonight, we get "Illusion of truth", where the press does an extraordinary job of taking things out of context. Earth is in the throes of what I recall as "McCarthyism", where if we weren't sure, then everyone next to you was probably a communist. Only, this time it's alien influence.
I have to admit, I didn't like the story. Oh, the episode was good. There've been a couple of times in my life where I've seen the "press" work a story so that it's a story, rather than report what happend. But, sheesh!...taking the original story, then seeing what was broadcast you can see how easily "editing" can present almost any view to the audience. Makes me wonder once again, how much influence is there over the news media? And, how often do we ask ourselves, "Is this for real, or do I have to go out and dig for the truth?" For example, what <u>is</u> the reality concerning Osama Bin Laden?
Just a question, just a question.
OK let me ratn abit.
The idea that the younger races won through an intellectual process and not through physically beating the Shadows adn Vorlons is cool. I like it, I think that it was well set up and very cool.
The idea that the Shadows and Vorlons were reduced to scared children needing Lorien to reassure them that they will be ok if they go beyond the Rim was nausiating. (sp)
OK, being afraid of that I can see. Moving is always an unsetteling process. I can understand that giving up the massive amount of power and influence you had weilded as a race for thousands of years would be hard to do. But the way the Shadows and Vorlons were portrayed was more then a bit problematic, at least for me.
Top that off with the corniest line ever uttered in Science Fiction history "Get the hell out of my galaxy" and I have a real problem with the end of the Shadow War. Not the conceptual ending but how it was portrayed.
OK, Attonement. This was a great episode. talk about a plot twist. Valen had kids. Delenn is a child of Valen. Sinclair was her great great great great great (you get the idea) Grandfather. WOW
I like the way that all of this was revealed. Slowly, peeling of layers to finally hear Dukhat. Forcing Delenn to face her past actions and their consequences all tog et to her ability to carry on with her life today.
I wonder if she will ever tell Sheridan what happened on Minbar. Will she ever admit that she was a part of the faction that authorized the Earth Minbari war?
And then I wonder how Sheridan hasn't asked her about that. I know its the past but it is a huge part of Sheridan's past. His actions in the war are what caused his rapid promotion. The destruction of the Blackstar is remembered by the Minbari. Sheridan knows that Delenn was a part of the Grey Council. I believe he knows that she was mentored by Dukhat, or I would hope that he has asked about her life enough to know how her mentor was.
OK, Delenn is a member fo the Grey Council. The Grey Council is the ruling body of Minbar. The Grey COuncil declares war. ummmm I think the pieces of the puzzle are there to figure this one out.
I would like to think that knowing that your loved was part of the faction that declared war on your race would not influence Sheridan's feelings for Delenn. But reality says that knowing that my lover is partially responsible for the near destruction of my world might influence my feelings about siad person. Which is why Delenn tells Sheridan nothing about her trip, what she remembered, what she saw, what she learned, and why she went to Minbar.
"Endgame" was on tonight. I'm convinced that Sheridan's success thru out the whole series is basically due to Lyta Alexander. And his speach(es) tonight. Man, the dude just loves to hear himself talk! Chowderhead? Maybe...definately annoying.
And another thing (oh, damn...you mean there's more?) Franklin <u>has</u> to be outside the jammer range within a short time, and he still can't contact Babylon 5. Or, since ISN is broadcasting once again, just send a piggy-back a signal on ISN to B5. I know they were able to receive ISN there. Coulda got to Marcus sooner that way.
Sheesh...
Wizz, I thought the speach was a little lame, too. Not nearly as passionate as Susan, eh? "God sent me." Love that. But it nearly brings me to tears when Sheridan orders the Agamemnon to ram the platform.
I've always had a question about general what's his name. Was he always on the rebels' side, or did he just figure out all that was good and righteous after the teep took out his communications? Or was he ambivalent to the whole process? Did he intend to turn sides in the battle? Not clear at all to me.
And speaking of the teep, in B5 it seems awfully darned easy to sneak things in under people's noses. Londo snuck the nukes onto the island the Shadows were using on Centauri home world. Sheridan snuck nukes right into Z'ha'dum (maybe shadows cant detect nukes, LOL!). Now the rebels sneak the teepsickles onto the Earthforce destroyers. How in hell do you do that? Hey we coulda won WW2 so easy. Ike to FDR, "well, what we do is sneak two million troops into Berlin and capture the German government." Um, great plan, Ike. How do we do the sneaking?
As for the jammers, um, Wizz, wouldn't they have turned those off as soon as the PPG in Clark's fist stopped smoking? Why couldn't they get a message to B5? Plot hole, me thinks. And since Marcus jumped the battle during the battle itself, and I think Earth is a two day journey from B5, well, there's another issue. Shoulda taken Marcus two days to return, putting the doc in easy comm range if he is only a few hours behind.
I still love that ep, though, and am willing to suspend my disbelief in favor of enjoying the drama of it all.
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I think General What's his name was loyal to earthgov and the military.
When Clark turned the defense grid *on* earth, there were no *sides* anymore. Everyone was for saving earth from the now obviously traitorous President Clark. That single act showed he was evil or controled by evil.
Merle--re turning off the jammers: Nobody knew where the switch was?!
Ok, I waited as long as I could.
Byron is a twit! A spoiled rich boy who thinks the world should hand him whatever he wants on a silver platter.
Ever since they arrived these telepaths who have done nothing for anyone on the station have acted like their s*it doesn't stink.
Yeah, their life was tough. But the station didn't owe them anything.
The station owes Lyta a ton, but not the other teeps.
While I am ranting. They way Sheridan and company have treated Lyta the entire series is shameful. LOL, and I don't like her since she is reponsible for triggering the latent personality in Talia *sniff* I liked Talia!
But still, Lyta put herself out for them time and time again and they kicked her out of her quarters, etc.?
Ya know, I always thought that Lyta got the short end of the stick. In her little meeting with Zack, she more or less told him that, and cited the part she played and the rewards she got. She should have told Sheridan if they wanted her help, to make sure she got reasonable quarters and some credits from time to time just to live. You know what, though? She's doing it again. Off on another crusade to help someone, this time with Byron. Too bad she really blew off Zack, though. Too blind to see reality, but that's life. I'm not saying that Zack and Lyta would have run off together into the sunset, but she would have had a good friend and ally, even if all she had done was give him the five minutes, and thank him for genuinely caring. Too bad she didn't scan...she probably would have been shocked.
You know what I can't follow? Byron's position that the League of Non-Aligned Worlds owe them a place, a planet of their very own. I mean, yeah...the Vorlons tinkered with them without permission and all that, but why does everyone "owe" them anything, other than the Army of Light more or less ran the Vorlons out of the galaxy. I guess the script called for a confrontational situation, and going after the League for the actions of the Vorlons makes as much sense as anything.
Well, Wizz, The Vorlons created the telepaths on behalf of the AOL's side, which includes the League. Also the league is benefiting from the Interstellar Alliance due to their part in the Shadow Vorlon War and Byron figures since they were messed with by both the Shadows and the Vorlons, they too should benefit from the Alliance.
I don't agree with Byron's thinking, but that's how I interept his thinking. In my opinion if they wanted a seat in the Alliance, they should join and be regulated by the same rules as the rest of the members. Not to expected to be treated as well as the members, but not be one.
I thought the Vorlons created telepaths for their own use, beginning about 200 years before the time the B5 story is taking place. Seems to me that's when teeps starting popping up in ever increasing numbers on Earth, according the the PsiCorps trilogy, well before the AOL and the Interstellar Alliance existed.
I agree Lyta got pooped on big time, but she keeps going back to doing what gets her pooped on in the first place, helping out other folks without making sure she's going to be compensated. At least, up to this point. Can't say anything else without spoiling something.... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
Ya, I agree. The Vorlons knew that telepaths were a bane for the Shadows, and they also knew that the Shadows would eventually return. Now, as for the human telepaths, I think they started tinkering with the human race when they determined that they'd be space-faring by the time the Ancient Enemy surfaced. Probably due to information retrieved from Valen a thousand years ago, eh? Were the telepaths inserted because AOL was coming? Maybe. Thing is, I don't believe that Byron gathered all of this from one enounter with Lyta. He learned the big picture, probably, but got all that level of detail? Uh uh...
What I can't figure out is why the Vorlons didn't return to Narn and replentish that races telepath population.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wizz:
What I can't figure out is why the Vorlons didn't return to Narn and replentish that races telepath population. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe because the Narns had allowed the Shadows a base on their Homeworld and the Vorlons weren't inclined to help them out after that? Just a guess.
I always assumed that the Vorlons did just enough genetic tinkering that telepaths would occur eventually. A few recessive genes here and there would finally add up and make a full blown teep.
So when all the Narn teeps were wiped out, maybe the Vorlons did try to re-create them and it would just take a while to develop. I don't know that they did. Maybe they didn't have a chance, but I think they would have. Would 1000 years be enough to get them back? Don't know.
1000 years? Probably. My memory of details regarding Babylon 5 is well known...to be of little value. However, didn't the Vorlons start tinkering with human telepath potential 200 years ago? Like the year 2000? I know they've been around much longer, since Sebastian originated in the 1800's. Thing is, if the Vorlons got telepathy in the human race going in 200 years (based on the first book about Bester), certainly they could have kick-started the Narns back into the Vorlon mind-set just after the Shadows went back for their nap.
I bet Fan is right. They were miffed that the Narns had been Shadow touched and probably that the Narns weren't behaved like good girls and boys.
Well, I think Sleeping in Light is on tonight, or else tomorrow night--I always have a tough time watching this--so if anyone wants to discuss reactions, see ya here--
iz
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"Close your mouth, Michael, we are not a codfish."
Yup, It was on last night. I am certainly curious as to any new outlooks on this. I gotta admit, I did get a little weepy with Delenna and Sheridans little "you are my sun, moon, stars." bit.
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Nommy
I always find the very end hard to take--when everyone leaves the station and then they turn out the lights and it destructs. That seems to be an instant of real loss. The end of the immediately preceding episode, Objects at Rest, when Sheridan and Delenn leave for Mimbar and everyone assembled on the bridge for "one last look" is another really sad scene. And the dinner party is also kind of a tear-jerker, especially when Vir admits that he really misses Londo. Maybe because it serves as a reminder about how many people are gone at that point.
This time through I did notice a few things. I finally saw the mirror effect. You really have to stare at it hard. Also, it occurred to me that only Delenn actually knew that Sheridan wasn't coming back from his "Sunday drive." I think she was supposed to tell everyone else that he got up early and went out to fly a ship one last time. If they had known it was a one way ticket, I think they would have followed him.
Still don't like parts of the script--not alerting David, for example, and Sheridan simply 'walking out' on his family and friends. On the other hand, I've always liked the scene between Zack and Sheridan. And this time I noticed that when they did the flashback, where Sheridan promises an end to the Shadow War, they also caught that instant when Lennier is glaring up at him with a look of real hatred. So there's always this hint of tragedy within tragedy.
One thing I've never been certain about is whether or not Lorien really comes back to Corialus. Or did Sheridan just hallucinate it, and then disintegrate into a "non-localized phenomenon" like Kosh? If no one comes back from beyond the Rim, then how did Lorien manage it? And in the previous episode, when Lockley asks Sheridan, "Where does all the time go?" he answers, "It goes that way, beyond the Rim," implying that everything on this side of the Rim is bound by the flow of time, which goes only in one direction.
Oh well, maybe I'll have an answer by the next time this shows.
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"Close your mouth, Michael, we are not a codfish."