How Many People Think Bush is an Idiot

Just Taking A poll of Drummers Thoughts No offense

no i think if you read u.n. resolution 1441 you see that the security council did recognize that saddam is still in breach of previous resolutions and that his history is deplored by the international community, res 685 was a cease fire agreement april 1991,contigent on saddam compying within 15 days, saddam has fired on united states planes in no fly zones almost every year, per 685 this could reconstitute full military action but never has, because this country has been patient. terrorism made a mistake when it came to our borders when a republican conservative was in the whitehouse....again ... read the documents, i did

i'm not a fan of going to war...

but, i think this whole thing should have been avoided 4 years ago when iraq kicked out u.n. inspectors, they should have gone in then,... they would of had a reason, and been justified at that point in time.

right now, there has been too much time in between. i personally think this whole thing is a warning to the extreemist muslims, that the u.s. isn't pissing around.

the u.s. considers themselves to be under attack, and can and will eliminate threats real or percieved.

i think that this government feels that there will be a struggle for a very long time between eastern and western philosphies, so they need to do something now to draw a line in the sand.

i don't necessarily agree with this, but i don't think hostilities and terrorist attacks are just going to go away if the u.s. pulls out all it's interests in the middle east and around the world.

they will still hate the u.s. and will still try to destroy what they percieve to be the american infedels.

just my 2 cents


chris perra

I find him quite hard to understand. For example, to many of us in Europe, it's a mystery how one can spend all that money on military forces rather than on helping the poor. What kinda leader is that? Only in America can you get away with that and still be loved by everybody...

How would YOU know what is done int he US. Is defense more than 3% of GDP? Should everyone get free lowclass health care like in England?

This country also has many charities that private people donate to, instead of a cumbersome government entity, that help people out more than you would know.

And another thing, when Saddam builds palaces of gold while his people are living in a Stalinst nightmare, you have some nerve to bash the US. You owe your freedom to US.

Think of what the world would be like if we pulled back ALL our troops. It costs money, US money, not South Korea money, not Taiwan money, not German money, not Japanese money...US money.

Bush is without question a charlatan. He wasn't even elected as your president. The Fox network got tired of waiting (after he had rigged the votes in Florida)for recount after recount and simply announced him as president. What a joke.
He can hardly utter one single coherant sentence and struggles with basic English.... That said, the hypocrisy of the man is staggering: America and Britain have been supplying Saddam with arms for the last 12 years and now they have decided that he is a threat to world peace, funny that.
It isn't under dispute that Saddam is an evil dictator, responsible for genocide in his own country, but steaming in there and MURDERING thousands of innocent Iraqui's is NOT the answer. even if ONE innocent person is killed as a result of this war, that is reason enough NOT to enter into it.
Blair has done himself no favours by being Bush's puppet and going along with this farcical war and will as a result I'm sure, bring his own downfall.
Have a look at one of TONNES of anti-war-petitions that were signed on the net and take time to read the comments.

http://www.antonio.homechoice.co.uk/sigs.htm

The UN Charter forbids pre-emptive or offensive action against a sovereign state unless that state has itself been guilty of striking the first blow; thus any such resolution would be in violation of the UN's own Charter: This war is not only immoral, but ILLEGAL.

hey dazzler,read the resolutions. this is not a premptive strike it is a continuation of the 91 gulf war when iraq invade another country.. per resolution 685... a cease fire ... contigent on full compliance.....and yes the united states spends a very low percent of gnp compare that to the dictator of n korea and his government that spends 30 percent of gnp on military while his people starve... per all resolutions on iraq he is in non compliance and it is a legal war per 1441....educate yourself and read the documents .. God bless the united states, the protector of human rights and enemy of those that oppose freedom....besides ending slavery in america defeating communism and fighting fascism what else has american might and war done.

Terry Jones (Monty Python) on the war:

I'm really excited by George Bush's latest reason for bombing Iraq: he's running out of patience. And so am I! For some time now I've been really pissed off with Mr Johnson, who lives a couple of doors down the street. Well, him and Mr Patel, who runs the health food shop. They both give me queer looks, and I'm sure Mr Johnson is planning something nasty for me, but so far I haven't been able to discover what. I've been round to his place a few times to see what he's up to, but he's got everything well hidden. That's how devious he is. As for Mr Patel, don't ask me how I know, I just know - from very good sources - that he is, in reality, a Mass Murderer. I have leafleted the street telling them that if we don't act first, he'll pick us off one by one. Some of my neighbours say, if I've got proof, why don't I go to the police? But that's simply ridiculous. The police will say that they need evidence of a crime with which to charge my neighbours. They'll come up with endless'red tape and quibbling about the rights and wrongs of a pre-emptive strike and all the while Mr Johnson will be finalising his plans to do terrible things to me, while Mr Patel will be secretly murdering people.

Since I'm the only one in the street with a decent range of automatic firearms, I reckon it's up to me to keep the peace. But until recently that's been a little difficult. Now, however, George W. Bush has made it clear that all I need to do is run out of patience, and then I can wade in and do whatever I want! And let's face it, Mr Bush's carefully thought-out policy towards Iraq is the only way to bring about international peace and security. The one certain way to stop Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers targeting the US or the UK is to bomb a few Muslim countries that have never threatened us. That's why I want to blow up Mr Johnson's garage and kill his wife and children. Strike first! That'll teach him a lesson. Then he'll leave us in peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way. Mr Bush makes it clear that all he needs to know before bombing Iraq is that Saddam is a really nasty man and that he has weapons of mass destruction - even if no one can find them. I'm certain I've just as much justification for killing Mr Johnson's wife and children as Mr Bush has for bombing Iraq.

Mr Bush's long-term aim is to make the world a safer place by eliminating 'rogue states' and 'terrorism'. It's such a clever long-term aim because how can you ever know when you've achieved it? How will Mr Bush know when he's wiped out all terrorists? When every single terrorist is dead? But then a terrorist is only a terrorist once he's committed an act of terror. What about would-be terrorists? These are the ones you really want to eliminate, since most of the known terrorists, being suicide bombers, have already eliminated themselves. Perhaps Mr Bush needs to wipe out everyone who could possibly be a future terrorist? Maybe he can't be sure he's achieved his objective until every Muslim fundamentalist is dead? But then some moderate Muslims might convert to fundamentalism. Maybe the only really safe thing to do would be for Mr Bush to eliminate all Muslims?

It's the same in my street. Mr Johnson and Mr Patel are just the tip of the iceberg. There are dozens of other people in the street who I don't like and who - quite frankly - look at me in odd ways. No one will be really safe until I've wiped them all out. My wife says I might be going too far but I tell her I'm simply using the same logic as the President of the United States. That shuts her up. Like Mr Bush, I've run out of patience, and if that's a good enough reason for the President, it's good enough for me. I'm going to give the whole street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come out in the open and hand over all aliens and interplanetary hijackers, galactic outlaws and interstellar terrorist masterminds, and if they don't hand them over nicely and say 'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the entire street to kingdom come. It's just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in contrast to what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one street.<

I could care less about the argument over whether people like or dislike Bush and I am not saying that is what you guys are doing here but to alot of people that is all it is about. They hated Bush already heck why not tear him apart.

I would say this. who has spent a few months living with people who are oppressed by a dictator? Or people who cannot worship God freely or those who cannot voice an opinion freely without worrying about going to jail or even worse torture,I have!My wife and I spent 10 years traveling around the world helping people with a mercy ministry team bringing physical relief(food,clothing,shelter) spiritual (hope and compassion) and you know they have got it horribly hard,more than anyone knows. We are so blessed here in this country and you know that whether you are religious or not!

The Iraquis and Kurds(in the millions ) along with the kuwaiti's have suffered greatly because of Husseins cruelty and Hate and that is not counting many others he has oppressed and attacked. this guy is another Pol-Pot and a Hitler. He should be gone whether you like Bush or not. The world community blew it along time ago. France and Russia and China it is about $$$$. Plain and simple they got billions wrapped up in deals with Hussein knowing what he does to those all around him. Talk about seeing the truth and still not caring and benefitting from the suffering. Those 3 countries have a known Pact to split the oil 3 ways if they could get other countries off Husseins back that was the deal and you wonder why they do not want him to go! they never had any intention not only of removing him but not even disarming him.

You do not hear the millions of Iraquis in exile or Kurds displaced or families who have had loved ones butchered protesting the war, WHY! they are the ones who have suffered they want him gone and rightly so again whether you like bush or not. I am ashamed to see people protesting, not because they do not have a right but because they are out of touch with the real victims. They live in Disneyland and have it Soooooooo! easy and they think they are the moral voice,bullcrap let them go suffer for awhile then they can talk. They live in fancy apartments eat there organic food smoke a bowl and sit around being the so called moral voice pathetic!

We took Milosevic out with Military force and no U.N. backing and the guy was Mr. Rogers compared to Hussein. Husseins atrocities against humanity are 100 times worse. Where were the protesters then and big mouth actors who are so in touch along with the others who relate so well. They were not because it was not Bush. Milosevic was a mosquito when it came to his threat to anyone. He was not, he was irrelevent to the US and even those around him other than those he locally fought with but we still went in anyways and I am not saying it was right or wrong. Clinton was pressured to the point where he said heck with it I am doing this with or without the U.N.

And as far as having authority. We have got the right to take Hussein out going back many resolutions and years. And everyone knows it, they just do not like it. Know one will take his threat to humanity seriously until he kills on the large scale again. I guess it will take another 9-11 to wake people up again. This guy supports every major terrorist Org in the world. And they want what he has got and he will give it to them eventually but we will just wait for him to kill more.Anyone one remember the world trade center bombing and the U.S. cole bombing and the Kenyan embassy bombing and the club bombing recently where hundreds of Aussies died.
This crap has been going on along time.

Terry Jones needs to get his but kicked by Hussein, maybe a litttle torture or anthrax up the nose. Let the big mouth suffer a little then we will see how funny he is afterwards. Again so easy for the well off to shoot their big mouths off!

And to those who say America does not help the needy. Bullcrap again I have worked with many relief Org's. And we do more and give more by far then anyone else.

America I hate to say is in a No-win situation. Everyone when their is a major problem wants us to bail them out and we should help to a degree. But then the same ones who cry we should help then cry that we should stay out of others business. That is what happens when you are the biggest and most prosperous and most powerful.
Everyone wants to dictate to America what and how we should help. Sometimes some of these countries need to learn hard lessons and really see if they want to change to a better way.
The reality is some do not.

The reality is Hussein should be gone for many reasons. Genocide, starting wars, weapons of mass destruction, supporting terrorism on a large scale. Can we get our eyes off of Bush and Politics and deal with this thug(Hussein) I hope so. I know some do not like bush and that is your right it does not bother me, but start caring about the ones who really suffer. that is the real issue to those who care and want to help the needy.
Regards Digital

Iraq has already lied three times (about the warheads capable of delivering chemical weapons, the banned missiles discovered about a month ago, and the recently discovered drone planes). Rememeber they denied having any of this stuff? If you trust those lying scum, you're extraordinarily naive. I'm not willing to give any middle eastern country the benefit of the doubt anymore, and I'm 100% in favor of bombing them unless they can act like a civilized nation and contribute something to the world other than oppression and terrorism. George Bush may stumble over his words occassionally (although his State of the Union was the best I've ever heard), but Rumsfeld is a genius.

Hi Digital.
I admire what you've done to help the needy around the world. Bless you!
I know that America has a lot of good churches that really serves the community. But that's not what I meant when I complained, I meant your government, that so easily could eliminate poverty on your continent if they wanted to. But instead they buy weapons?
According to statistics I read last week, America is on 28th place when it comes to giving to the poor. They are not at all as good as you said. Funny enough, the article also mentioned that all Americans think that their nation is nr 1!

And when it comes to this whole Iraq-thing, I don't know the answer. But what I know is that we really need to pray for God's will to be done, and for the leaders of our nations to do wise decisions.

I ditto JBault's thots...There's a time to get bizzy!

all anti-war protesters are protesting the right for iraqis to live in freedom and prolonging their misery.

I agree with Tbo, also think while there are lighting up Suddams ass they should plant a scud up Gamdens as well. Just my 2 cents................

Vinnie forver!

Whoa!!!

How come no one posted sooner that Vinnie changed his last name to "Forver"...

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Well the real question should be: Does George prefer matched or traditional?

Well my take..

Anyone who actually belives what they are shown is an idiot.

You actually think, the president of the US has any power? You think he writes his own speaches? Come on.. this is a joke right? You really belive the president has that much power, if any at all?

Further more you belive it so much taht you're willing to insult such a person based on only the public news media you are fed. Wich is owned, operated and filtered by the government and/or any number of private corperations.

You really think what you are getting fed is even close to the truth? Perhaps even remotely?

MY take, it's all a fascade. The medias job is to capture peoples attention and divert it to where they want you to be looking. Wich is exactly what they accomplish.

The president has no power, for all we know, wich is nothing really, he's a nothing. The preesident fo the united states is a figure head and nothing more. He's a fall back guy.. something goes wrong. You blame the president. Something goes right. You blame the president.

People have forgotten that this world is ran by the people and orginizations we don't see.

This is not paranoina at all, this is reality.

You think that war and military descisions are actually made in an office? OR are they made in the one of many "war rooms" around the world? By generals and high ranking military officials?

OR do you actually belive the descisions of war are made by a man, sitting in an office, having served no time in the military?

I know for an absolute fact everything the news feeds you, be it CNN or BBC is wrong. Filtered. Fake.

I have a good friend who is in Force Recon and served heavily in the Desert Storm war.. you ask him what happedn over there then look at what the news said. You will find to very conflicting storys.

Truth is. No one knows what's going on.

To blame a single man, who sits in a figure head posistion soley for that purpose is ludicris.

To complain about war crimes and decisions of such is as well stupid.

You don't like it, then do something about it. But calling people names, reguritating fake filtered news through yet another filter, your own opinion and trying to pass it on as fact, then use that "fact" to push blame onto a person you know nothing about or even can convieve of what goes on. It's absurd. So stop.

Yeah JosiahM !
RAWK! \m/ (><) \m/

Having served in the U.S. Navy as an Intelligence Specialist a few years ago, I can tell you for a fact that Bush is NOT an idiot. He is an extremely patient man who has given Saddam more than enough time to disarm. Never before in U.S. history has anyone been given so much extra time to disarm and/or pack bags and move to more "secluded pastures". IMHO we need to wax him and Bin Laden and bring our guys back home as soon as we can. Also, if we happen to fly over France and/or Germany and drop them a special token of appreciation then so be it.
Just my two cents.

Clint

It's idiotic to dignify an idiot's question.

I vote for banning politics from the HOD forum!

UNless it has to do with Gamden, no politics. But then again, politics are like drums and music, everyone has his or her opinions. Unless yet again it has to do with Gam, who is like Osama and Saddam.. a prick. We need to have that ying yang in order to grow.

I do not give a rip about politics but I have seen suffering at the hands of brutal men for years. THAT I DO KNOW! And someone needs to stand up for them. I think sometimes we need a little hardship to come to us so we can have a little more compassion and understanding for what really matters . Heck sometimes I feel like a complete moron giving so much time to subjects like drumming and music when there are so much more relevent issues and it is not politics but people having certain basic rights. This country was founded not only that we would have rights but that we would help others who wanted to experience those same rights. Our country is not perfect our Presidents and military the same but we do have values that we should hold true to.
And your right America does not give the most based on total GDP but overall we give way more than anyone else and we should give alot more,
I do respect all opinions that are truly sincere and well meaning.

And you know this site should not be about politics but caring about people is not the same as Politics that I know!

regards Digital

It's like my percussion teacher always tells me: Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one, and everyone's stinks.

Why do we (the US) keep selling these countries weapons of mass destruction? We were serious business partners with Saddam just prior to the Gulf War. We supplied the Afghanis with weapons and training to help fight the soviets. How many stock piles of chemical weapons do we have? Shouldn't every other country be scared of that?
I feel like this country is a huge corporate Leviathan that stops at nothing to continue to grow, grow and grow. It's a huge corporate monster that has to meet next quarters fiscal demands. If it doesn't meet this demand of growth, the CEO is fired. It's just unstoppable.
It has to grow no matter what.
Well, those Iraqies are going to have a nice job after we take them over.

Working not for Saddam but for McDonalds and getting a better wage. Minimum wage.

Every American should read Howard Zinn's book- A PEOPLES HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES.
Good stuff that isn't talked about in our schools. MMmm...
I wonder why?

Bush is a cowboy keeping the oil barons happy.. ..
My opinion.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 17, 2003 12:22 PM: Message edited by: leedavies22 ]</font>

Why post Terry Jones' dried out 60's garbage? He's a humorist, does he deserve consideration as an analyst on US foreign policy? I'm sure he was against the Vietnam war, a JUST war.

Speaking of oil, I'm sure France has to consider it's own fuel prices in it's intransigence.

The foreigners who criticize GW are just shrill wackjobs...sorry. Clean up your own filthy messes first, then maybe you deseve some credit.

Maybe you guys could give us all a reason why your continent spawned Communism, nazism, Fascism, Totalitarianism and a mass slaughter of jews like has never been perpetrated before. was it because of GWBush?

So I'm sure we'll all listen to people from this area of the world when it comes to judging Stalinist dicators. But wait, they can't...

And hooray for Tony Blair and the Royal Marines!

We are the most powerful country on the planet for a reason.

It's not money. It's superiority.

BTW whoever mentioned Zinn's book, I like you. That's a great book.

Either way.. politics, war, death, "colateral damage".. these things will always exsist.

Is anyone here promating a Utopian society? Marxist/Stalinist anyone? Communism works but peoples greed causes the system to crash. Utopia will never exsist because of pride and egos.

As long as pride and egos exsist, the want for power and the coruption power causes. We, as a world, will always have war. War never changes. People never change. History never changes.

Live with it.

Howard Zinn is a leftist. You might want to inform people of this when recommending his book.

Hello guys. I've just joined the message board & just read through this thread. Some interesting view points & opinions being expressed, so I thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth.

From a viewpoint from outside the US (I live in Scotland), it seems that this whole war thing is a reaction to not being able to find Binladen. I know that it's being hailed as war against terrorism by both Bush & Blair. If this is the case, will the US & Britain then continue to fight terrorism in other countries all over the world after this war has ended?

Now for this to be a true war on terrorism the US would have to move into Ireland for example, where there has been terrorism for a good few years now. Unfortunately I don't see this happening.

The next thing to think about is, why do these people hate the western world? Could it be because we as a civilisation keep them in squalor so we can live in relative splendour? I for one would get pretty annoyed if I though someone was subjugating me to keep themselves in luxury.

We only have to look at the world see all of the starving people all over the world, kept there in a lot of cases by other military dictators, I mean Africa is full of them, but I don't see the western world running in there full of righteous fire. A pity really. If we spent the money we spend on weapons on feeding the people that really need it, surly it would be a better world for all.

Surely this is the goal we should all be working towards, not the killing of many innocent people.

I thought by now we would have evolved as a species, to the point where we would realise that war fixes nothing.

We all communicate to other people through our involvement in music, pity it seems that that communication breaks down when our emotions get the better of us.

nice exchange of opinions going on, well i watched Bush's ultimatum on Saddam a while ago here..... and whoa!!! the TV is full of rioting protest, its really happening guys... i was just gonna ask every one how's the atmosphere on everyones place regarding this event..

its interesting that clintuplet is a former navy,
(just a fact, when i was a kid i would dream that i was a jet fighter pilot for the navy.... well just a dream!!)

speaking of navy,
hey numeroUNO hows the study, just keep it up!

PS.
I heard Saddam would bomb Israel if Bush continues with the assault, is this true? if so pray that Israel will be protected together with all good forces!

I think it's great that people like Howard Zinn have the freedom to put out a book like that.
It 's a facinating view of the US through the eyes of the working people.
He may be on the left but the information that he acquired is bookmarked in the bibliography at the end of the book.
I found out about Howard Zinn throught the great Trumpet player of today- Dave Douglas.
I think America's greatness comes from the fact that we can question our gov't. That's very American.
Apathy leads to a grave descent.
Peace to the people and down with dictators!

I'm not sure we've ever sold WMD to other countries. That I find hard to believe. Yes of course we've armed many a Middle Eastern dicator to further our own interests but hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

do you really believe the people in Iraq are better off now?

Also, find me a person somewhere who doesn't want some piece of the "American Dream." Yes, we're spoiled little bitches but I for one am VERY grateful of where I live and the lifestyle I'm afforded as a result.

Saying the US is the big bad evil country is just crazy. We don't gas our own people (or anyone else's) and we've used Nukes or should I say that day's equivalent twice in one brutal conflict that ravaged the entire planet. Yes we killed thousands of innocents in that attack but in that particular circumstance it was us or them. Show me a country anywhere that wouldn't choose "them" everytime.

Fuck Saddam. I don't like Bush I'll admit, but Saddam can suck a dick. (or a big fat fucking bomb, either way)

finally, if not to state the obvious, NO ONE on this board or anywhere else wants to see innocent people die in any country. Remember that when we debate these subjects please. We're all just drummers talking.

btw, check out this link to read about Saddam's handiwork and tell me you don't want us to go in.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...614607,00.html

Saddam will not be the last dictator so I hope the US takes care of this guy the right way.
America is the soul super power right now. If we mess up with this war and too many civilians are killed the world will be pointing fingers at us for a long time to come.
what if ? - UN vs. United States?....

Howard Zinn is a revisionist knucklehead, along the same socialist lines as Noam Chompsky. Total garbage. (Don't get me started.) Check out frontpage magazine at http://206.183.2.199/.

And as for the post that claims nobody knows anything and the government is made up of lies and deceit, that's just a sucker's way of avoiding an intelligent opinion concerning the issues. I hate to break it to you, but the illuminati doesn't exist, and there are no big conspiracies.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 18, 2003 03:08 PM: Message edited by: jonthibault ]</font>

This just in from the leading British Human rights organization. This group happens to be headed up by a number of women which in certain respects gives it great credibility.

You want to know how Hussein punishes those who dissent. A man who spoke out this week against him was tied up to a wall had his tongue cut out and his arms and legs mutilated and left to bleed to death as a warning to others who speak
out. Or women had to watch as their husbands were put threw large commercial shredders and ripped up for speaking out.

One of his favorites is tying men and women and even children up to posts and letting attack dogs tear them apart.

Thank God this man is good as gone!

Digital

jonthibault you loose all credibility by insulting a person, this is a falecy in logic.

You are not provign anything against what the man says by calling him names, all you have proven is that you called him a name. Yet his points still stand.

My views are not a wussys view to ge out of an intelligent opinion.

The fact is a "intelligent opinion" is a lingistically false.

My views come from first hand knowledge and speaking with and having friends in the military and other government posistions. From what I have learned through various people, is that the people who the media presents as the leaders of makign desicions are not. The people who make the desicions are out of the view.

Nice link Jonthibault. I bought 6 shirts on that page for my nieces and nephews.
They'll lovem !!!!!!!

Zappa Rules !!!!!

everyone can bitch and complain of the state the western cultures are in right now.

how we arrived here by creating allies in the middle east during the cold war, and creating an economic infrastucture based completely on oil.

when the cold war was over the u.s. pulled out help in afganistan, iraq, ect. these countries became might is right and afganistan becam a nightmare. the dude we were helping in iraq was a nutbar.

mix a very self rightious independent extreemist religion into the mix and you get hatred for the west.

we can complain about how stupid the u.s. is for arriving here but the fact is this is the situation, it's not going to change, the radical muslims and there allies hate the west, and feel they must irradicate the infedels.

they will find a way eventually to attack the western countries again. the only thing you can do is make it clear to them that the u.s. is the big kid on the block,and you're ass will be kicked if you want to start a fight.

i believe this is more than just iraq. this is just a pawn. once they are in iraq, they are smack dab in the middle of it.

i just wish they would work on alternative power source along the way so they don't have to fight for a resoucre that is wiping out the planet on it's own.

chris perra