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Question for you:
How come you work for activision and aren't pursuing a fulltime career as a drummer in the sense of studio work, tours, shows, etc? Or are you? Activision just a short term thing? I mean, it's not like you're lacking in the skill department or anything. [img]tongue.gif[/img] You of all people could make an amazing living from drums. Did you decide that it's better to have a secure job and keep drumming as a hobby?
You know, I did for a while. Then the rug got pulled out of a gig that was providing blood money, so I was left scrambling for large expenses and needed to find a quick way to pay my rent.
I landed a gig on the bottom rung of testing at Activision and ended up getting swiftly promoted several times. Games are my second passion and working in the industry (now on the Production side of things) is extremely gratifying in a number of ways.
The cost of living in LA is insanely expensive so I decided to hold on the the steady income while filtering out gigs that may not be, shall we say the most musically gratifying. Now I can focus on musical projects that I am passionate about with my musical energy. I share a lockout studio with my friend (drumdawg on the forums, Sammy Watson) so I can shed pretty much whenever I want. My scheduling at work is very flexible so if I need to take off for a bit they are pretty supportive. It works out pretty well.
Part of me would like to be the guy making a living playing music, but honestly more important to me above all is if I'm progressing as a player. I am very much still on the musical journey of expanding my vocabulary as well as basic fundamentals of time, groove, and feel. I'm always meditating and working on these things on my own as well as the gigs I'm on and in the shed. I try to do a variety of music in the gigs I pick to keep me working on different things (mostly rock and jazz oriented).
I consider myself pretty lucky really.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, sounds good to me, nice balance. That way you don't have to play crap just to pay your way. And you never know, at some point you might just be in the right place at the right time, and someone is gonna offer you that big break. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Nice hearing from you Steve,
Question: Therefore what would be some advice that you would give to someone looking to break into the biz and be a drummer full time. What insight would you offer from your experience?
Thanks for that insightful feedback Steve. That really helped me to pull some thoughts together and put into perspective concerning my own playing and approach to this instrument that I love so much. PT.
Steve/Drumdawg -
Just curious: Is Sammy the same Sammy that plays with Kate Miner? I know it is Sammy something or other who plays with Kate. He came and played in Redlands, but lived in LA. When I met Him, we had a great talk. I got and then subsequently lost his card and would love to reconnect.
Take Care. F.S.
Apex Theory
Sammy plays in The Apex Theory, I think you have the wrong one.
Advice about the music industry? <strike> Who am I to give it</strike> It depends on what you want to do. The industry itself is in sad shape as a result of the internet (ironically the net has done nothing but help me but I don't depend on record sales so touche I guess)... anyway it is obviously possible to make a living in the ideal sense of doing sessions and touring, but that seems to be left to a small elite group of guys since there's not as much need for it. The 80's are over and putting together a band, getting signed and getting rich is just not how it is anymore. Record labels are barren and the few bands we do see on SNL are for the most part crap (generally speaking, there are exceptions obviously). So, it is more difficult to do that than ever before. Bottom line is it is possible however harder than ever and as I said it's very expensive to live in LA to start with.
This is why I like having my playing be the most important part because how successfull I am at being a good player is up to ME and not at the mercy of a starving business. I had a great year too. Altered put out a CD, I got a Zildjian endorsement, and my video got picked up by a major distributor. I play music I like with people I like. I get to see my heros play a lot (much less hang out or take lessons with) so things are cool with the drumming side of things. Could they improve? You bet. Will they?
You bet.
NO, I'm a different Sammy J., and I play with the apex theory. If I may Steve, on advice, I'd encourage moving to a city that offers what your looking for.( Matricks or who ever listens) , I grew up in the Seattle area and even lived in the city for about a year. I was struggling to find what I wanted musically. I flipped on the TV and saw the chick I used to play with on SNL and realized that I had to move back down to LA. You need to live in an area where the most opportunity is. Granted, LA has a lot of competition but it has a lot of mediocre players as well. If your shit is together, it can be noticed. I tell drummers who ask me the same questions to move to major cities. If your a strait ahead jazz head, then move to N.Y. If your looking for a record deal, move to L.A. or a city that has labels. (not that a major is the best decision any more) But theres something to be said for playing a show and 5 or 6 labels can come out and check you out if there is a buzz. In smaller cities or cities less known for music, you don't have the opportunity to get noticed. You send a demo to a label and it sits in a bin of 100's of others, or becomes a coaster. It has been quite a sacrifice on my end living in LA. My heart and soul is in the N.W. but musically, it was the best move ever... I have been able to meet, live and study with Masters such as Steve Holmes. Hope this "sheds some light" or at least gives a perspective on the matter.
Peace, Sammy J.
In reply to matricks :
I would also add that there's another way to be a fulltime drummer apart from trying to get record deals or play jazz. I don't know if's it's exactly the same in the states as in the UK.
The staple diet over here of doing corporate functions with function bands, depping in shows, doing summer seasons, cruise ship work and stuff like that provide enough income to make a decent living from if you're prepared to basically 'whore' yourself to the music business, play music that isn't always ideal, and you don't mind going away from time to time. The biggest and most important thing any drummer can do to give himself an advantage and open more doors, is to make sure he can read, and read pretty well. This goes hand in hand with good timekeeping.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 05, 2004 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Rudy_Ment ]</font>
Thanks for the replies everyone [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Steve:
A far as the internet helping you, are you speaking in regards to getting your band, Altered, out there?
To the rest of what you said, i agree wholeheartedly. It is a struggle that i am constantly at odds with within myself. You sound as if you have found a great situation to where you can 'have your cake and eat it too'... inspiring [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
I have a job that i love doing, but for me it isn't A LOVE nor is it gratifying, not like drumming, or like your love for your day gig. If i could find something that i love doing as a day gig and have drumming as a nite gig... ah, hog heaven, but the search goes on... [img]wink.gif[/img]
Sammy:
That is another struggle of mine... i LOVE Seattle but realize the majority of what i would want to accomplish musically can't be acheived here, just due to what the city has to offer. As you obiviously know (since you lived here) we are basically up in the far reaches of the country, wedged between two mountain ranges and hidden within the trees! The only session player that i know of who lives up here is Matt Chamberlain, and he made his name first in NYC and THEN moved here. I don't think i am going to have any labels pay my way around the country to do sessions anytime soon! It is a hard thing, as you know since you love the NW too, having your heart in music and having your heart where you live... but not having the pleasure of having the two mutually reside in the same geographical area. In the case of two of my buddies, one ended up moving to LA to pursue a session career. The other one got lucky and auditioned, and got into the empty drum chair in a locally known Seattle band that was just getting big, Death Cab for Cutie. I see myself, if i was going to make it, probably having to make the move to LA and not being as lucky as the second case. What you said certainly sheds some light and gives inspiration that good players can 'make it'. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] How did you go about landing the gig you are in now? Was that something that you had in the works before you moved to LA or did that happen after you got there?
Rudy:
Yeah, i have basically resigned myself to the idea of being a 'whore' to the music and the business. Hopefully, though, satisfaction can arise from this, through smart musical and business decisions. I love playing and don't mind 'selling out' because, to me, if i am selling my services, then i am doing what i want to do... i love the idea of being the one people use to make their music sound good... or atleast sound good to them [img]wink.gif[/img] What i play and what i listen to for enjoyment, well, they aren't always the same... which is good and bad. If i had a dream gig, i would play on Broadway, which as you mentioned... sight reading, here i come!
Thanks again everybody!
[img]wink.gif[/img]
Hi Rudy. i'm doing pretty much what you mention in your post. haven't done the ships but i might when the kids have grown up. have you done much of the above? one problem i have is finding gigs in the week and the biggest bummer is being offered two maybe three gigs on a weekend lol
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 05, 2004 09:00 PM: Message edited by: drumkid ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi drumkid,Quote:
Originally posted by drumkid:
Hi Rudy. i'm doing pretty much what you mention in your post. haven't done the ships but i might when the kids have grown up. have you done much of the above? one problem i have is finding gigs in the week and the biggest bummer is being offered two maybe three gigs on a weekend lol
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ December 05, 2004 09:00 PM: Message edited by: drumkid ]</font></font>
At the moment my staple diet is teaching and weekend gigs with different function bands. But yeah, I did ships from 1993 to 1999. Started depping for drummers who wanted to take leave every now and then and I was like ' wooT! carribbean cruise for 2 weeks, yeah!' Then in 1995 I got a regular ship gig offered to me with a trio and then moved up to the 7 piece showband playing in the ship's theatre pit. So I'd cruise for 2 weeks, return to UK, turnaround and go out again. Every January to april was the world cruise. No regulars took leave then because EVERYONE wants to go to places like australia, bali and san francisco. Well I certainly did! The showband was fun, challenging and hard! Until I got used to the pace and then it was cool. Reading a different show or cabaret every night does tighten up your reading that's for sure! Money is good considering after 6 months I became NT rated( no tax)and nothing really to spend money on as food and everything is free.So it's a great way to see the world, put money away and play drums. I've also done summer seasons in the past, like holiday camps, which is crap in one way, because it's so cheesy, but still, fun on many levels too. [img]smile.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good points Rudy, it's not a topic that's generally discussed on here, but I would say that if you want to be taken seriously as a drummer and musician; as far as being a drummer that freelances and doesn't just play in one band, then it is vital to be able to sight read to a decent level.Quote:
The biggest and most important thing any drummer can do to give himself an advantage and open more doors, is to make sure he can read, and read pretty well. This goes hand in hand with good timekeeping.
As Rudy said, if one wishes to play in a variety of playing styles and situations, then at some point you will be faced with a pad full of charts and invariably no time to rehearse, it's just 1234 and off you go!
When I was a kid, we lived next door to a guy who produced a Canadian band called Loverboy (nice name!) I was just starting to play the drums, playing to records and I remember him telling me that none of the drummers he works with can read music and for me not to bother. My Dad took me to one side and told me not listen to him and to carry on with my reading and understanding of notes. Needless to say he was right. These days it's not enough to have good time and groove as you will often find yourself having to nail charts at the first reading.
[img]graemlins/music.gif[/img]
Matricks:
I've gotten all my gigs through working at coffee shops. There's a constant flow of musicians coming in and out. They would see me practicing on the counter and it would strike up conversations. I got my first real gig with "Ricky Lee Jones" on the HORDE tour that way. I also met my dream band which I'm currently with (the apex theory) that way too. When I returned to LA after a Seattle adventure, I actually got into writing and touring doing theatre work. Soon after that I was playing in 4 or 5 bands and met somebody which led to apex. I swear, coffee shops are the best way to meet musicians, but it wouldn't have happened with out sacrifice (moving to LA) [img]frown.gif[/img] That's life though [img]smile.gif[/img]
Sammy J.
Coffee shops huh? I never would have thought it but it makes sense! It is funny you mention that because i have received a few gigs at those-type places when i have been just sitting and transcribing, or working on music on the laptop. People see you are doing music ask what you are up to, and next thing you know they need a drummer or know someone who needs a drummer for a gig...
Working at one i would guess that you meet alot of people and have plenty of time to small talk each person as they come in... quick and easy networking i would think. Interesting story [img]cool.gif[/img]
As far as the sacrifice of moving to LA... Too bad the LA gigs can't come to me up here in Seattle instead of me having to go down there! Don't they know our trees are alot nicer up here and have alot more of them ...not to mention coffee shops!...
Thanks again Sammy J [img]wink.gif[/img]
Glad to hear I'm not the only one struggling between going pro and having a "legit" job.