-
I'm sorry but this is gonna take some getting used to... Check out the link below and look at the Sabian logo right by Weckl's head. Still can't get used to it.
I'd hate to think he sold out and did it just for the money, but I flat-out refuse to believe that if he asked Zildjian nicely, they wouldn't have created some cymbals with Dave. Kinda undermines all the good things he's said about them over the years doesn't it...
Endorsments do my head in, but I'd sure like some...
------------------
http://www.drumsontheweb.com/DOTWpag...toglry45k.html
[This message has been edited by Groovemeister (edited March 19, 2002).]
-
I did know that Dave played Sabian first, but I wonder why he changed to Zildjian... Probably once again, cash (and large sums of it) were involved.
My personal preferance is Zildjian, as they just seem to be the greatest company in the world. Their cymbals are the best sounding, there's something for everyone. As well as that though, the product support is phenominal. I remember when I cracked an 8" A Custom Splash. It was a tiny paper-thin cymbal and it was 10 months old, but Zildjian sent me a replacement, a voucher with money off for a new 'K', a video, a tee-shirt and a pair of sticks to apoligise. I just think that they are the most caring for the drummers out there...
Maybe I just find it really hard to believe that Dave really did it for 'artistic merit' as I've tried the new cymbals and they are pretty much K Customs. Not only are they higher priced than your average cymbal, it seems to me young niaeve guys will go out and buy them either because Dave uses them, because they've got his name on, or because they think that'll make them sound like him...
------------------
-
I agree that Zildjian is a great company but I think they've gotten too big to get really crazy-creative like Sabian. Sabian has such a W I D E variety of different sounding cymbals. They really can take more chances because they are smaller and have a niche for customized cymbals for many of their endorsers. I play a combination of Sabian and Zildjian and Paiste. I have the best of all worlds.
------------------
-
I agree that Zildjian is a great company but I think they've gotten too big to get really crazy-creative like Sabian. Sabian has such a W I D E variety of different sounding cymbals. They really can take more chances because they are smaller and have a niche for customized cymbals for many of their endorsers. I play a combination of Sabian and Zildjian and Paiste. I have the best of all worlds.
------------------
-
God forbid, a company that wants to make money.
I wonder if Sabian ever made a dollar from Bozzio's cymbals...
------------------
-
Zildjian has flatly refused to create signature lines for any of their endorsers. That includes Weckl. You'll notice Vinnie's name is not written on the Custom A cymbals he recently helped create and advertise. It's all about money. You may be unaware but Dave chose and used Sabian cymbals first, before Zildjian signed him to be an endorser.
------------------
-
I think Zildjian cymbals sound WAY better than anything else out there. Dave being the conrol freak that he is about his drum sound, I'm sure he had his reasons for making the change, Theres not many guys in the forum that play as much as he does, so nobody here can speak from the same perspective. Perhaps playing as much as he does introduces a new urge to explore, expirement. Who knows?
His old cymbals sounded better though.
------------------
webmaster,
www.houseofdrumming.com
-
"God forbid, a company that wants to make money" - Durr! That's what they do isn't it?!
It is a good point about the Bozzio cymbals though... Unless you think you're good enough or have the time or money to be a 'solo drummer' I can't really think of any use for them, (unless for special FX, and even then you'd only probably buy one of the series).
I am blessed enough to own one of the late Carlos Vega's DW drumsets and with it came some PAISTE's. The 16" Signiture was awesome, as is the 20" 2002 Ride. But then again, that could be because they have his spirit in them..)
Other than those, I'd hate to be the idiot who tries to come between me and my Zildjians....
------------------
[This message has been edited by Groovemeister (edited March 19, 2002).]
-
I was "raised on Zildjian," so to speak, but their quality has gone downhill in the last 10 years, in my opinion. Meanwhile Sabian has been making some impressive improvements. To my ears, the K & K Custom lines have lost the characteristic dark "K" sound, and I always have to try out a bunch of different Zildjians before I can find one that sounds good to me (which is fine if you're Vinnie or Steve or Dennis, and you can go to "the vault" and can pick through as many as you want).
I tried the Sabian Evolution series recently, and I thought they sounded incredible--very sweet, dark, mellow, yet contemporary--sort of like an "aged" A-Custom. The sound is SO unique, that I wonder if you could mix the Evolution line with any other line of cymbals (including anything from Sabian) and get everything to blend together (seems like the Evolutions would sound "out of place" with other cymbals).
Zildjian seems like a fine company customer-service-wise, but their products just don't impress me any more. Sure, they have been expanding their line in terms of models, but what about sound and quality? Sabian may be a bit tacky to use "signature" lines to generate sales, but they are also paying attention to quality.
Sorry for the rant, but it's a good topic!
------------------
-
Hey there mja61,
It's interesting that you've had that experience with Zildjian. I don't know how familiar anyone is with Paiste here, but they make great cymbals and go to real pains to make sure that that all the Signiture 'Mellow Crashes' sound the same. They've got a 'master' cymbal which is the sound by which all others that are made are judged by. If when they are made, the cymbals don't match the frequency of this master, they are dumped.
This is a great way if you are looking for consistany, but what I like about Zildjian (and I suppose Sabian too), is the sound of a 16" A Custom can vary so much from cymbal to cymbal. That's why whenever I'm selecting a new one, I'll always take my cymbal set to the store. I know lots of guys who've started doing this and say that it's helped them pick out some real gems that sit well with their current set-up.
Regardless, I think that any Zildjian you pick up is going to be an amazing cymbal, whether it sits well with your current setup or not, you know that you'll be 'safe' in it's musicallity ad ability to merge into any genre of music. I'm happy to report that I've never had an issue with the quality of a Zildjian, even the second-hand ones that I've found for my jazz set.
The reason why people usually search junk shops to try and 'discover' an old 'K' from the 50's is testement to the fact that these cymbals age, getting darker and sweeter over a period of months and years. I wonder what the Evolution series will evolve into.... "An aged A Custom" sounds like the ideal cymbal, but I just didn't see it...
------------------
-
Hey there Mr. Groovemeister,
Those were some thoughtful comments. Man, I guess I'm really on a soap box lately!!!
I thought Jeff Porcaro's Paistes sounded great, but other than that, they always sounded kind of "cold" or "flat" to me. Besides, I kind of like the idea of being able to find that one-in-a-million Zildjian or Sabian, as well as being able to have two identical models that sound different.
My biggest complaint with Zildjian over the last few years is this. Let's say you want an 18" K Crash (or A Custom or whatever). In my experience, it's easy to find one that sounds clangy (lots of cut and projection), but hard to find one that's more on sweet/dark/mellow end of the spectrum. I don't know if the cymbals are coming out too thick, or if craftsmanship/artisanship has gone by the wayside, or what. It seems like any A, K, A Custom or K Custom these days sounds more like an old Z super-heavy-duty-power-crash!
There was an MD Q&A a while back from a guy who wanted to know about the cymbals used in the movie, "That Thing You Do." As I recall, one of the Zildjian big-wigs wrote back saying that those were vintage A's (probably from "the vault"). He recommended the A Customs to get a similar sound, mentioning that the intent of the A Custom line was, in part, to "recreate" the A Zildjian sound of yesteryear. Why don't they just make the A's like they used to?
Anyways, I don't know what the hell business I have complaining about cymbals. My budget for drum equipment is about zero these days!!
Alright, I'm getting off my soapbox :-)
-Mike A.
------------------
-
There may be several reasons Mr. Dave decided to go to Sabian.
1. Signature series
No, Zildjian doesn't do SigSeries..I like that. Dave probably does want more control. Also, having his name plastered on more things is a good thing...right?
2. Cash!
MONEY! EGO! MONEY! EGO! - It's not a bad thing, but it is what it is...Also, after the impressionable young drummer has spent tons o' money on Zildjian cymbals..cause Dave uses them, do ya think they are going to spend ton's more on Sabian now?...nah...
3. A Buzz.....
Let's face it... Dave has not been in the major spotlight lately. At least I haven't heard much from the Weckl camp.
So, why not make a big change in equipment to stir things up!?!
And Yes Steve.. his old cymbals do sound better. I love Dave...don't get me wrong.
Oh! and there are other great cymabls out there. Turkish - Bosphorus to name two. They are beautiful hand-hammered cymbals that offer some great sounds.
Flamaque
------------------
"Jazz is not dead, it just
smells funny." - Frank
Zappa
[This message has been edited by Flamaque (edited March 20, 2002).]
-
I've heard Dave live with the Zildjians and with the Sabians. To my ears both sets sound great, but the Sabians blend better with Dave's kit.
My experience with Sabians is that they are very consistent in great sound quality, where Zildjians have a huge range of quality from beautiful to comical.
A few years ago at NAMM, Paiste had a display with a Zildjian and a Paiste crash set up side by side for comparison. The Zildjian sounded horrible, why, because you can buy a really bad Zildjian. This is very unfortunate for the new guys to drumming who have not yet developed their ears for good cymbals.
Finally, no, I don't think Dave sold out. His artistic integrity is wonderfully intact with the Sabs.
------------------
