9-11-01

so did this event change you in any way?

It didnt change me in any way, but i am intrested in hearing, talking about ways that it did change people.

You see to some people it never changed anything about them, yet if they say/acknowledge that fact, then people get hatefull with them., granted i am speaking only about online use now, but the point is the same.

people go on and on about how it affected them, or changed them, and yet their first reaction to someone that doesnt share their feelins about something is anger. I wonder why that is?

I'd say it's brought the concept of terrorism a little closer to home, and thereby maybe made me a smidgen more prone to understand how it would be like to live under constant terror like the people in Israel, Bosnia, or your average U.S high school. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Whyatt, are you aware that New York is mighty far away from Europe? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

American culture isn't. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Seriously though, you often hear about suicide bombers in Israel, the wars going on in Northern Ireland, Africa etc but those places have more or less outright wars. America hasn't, not in their own turf. This just made one more aware that this could happen any time, any place and to anyone. Made me take international terrorism a little more seriously because it's not just something that happens in "those other countries". It really could happen anywhere.

Try living in Holland where some left wing environmentalist shot an upcoming right- wing politician.

That still didn't bring it closer to home for me, since I'm not a politician either. The strong diversion that's started up between the right and left in Holland is scary though, especially since it's so strong now after the murder.

But terrorists have no business in Holland, and if they did they'd have no business in my home town. It's of no political significance, it doesn't have any symbol of anything terrorists hate -like the Twin Towers were-. I'm not worried.

Only about internal politics. Nice and self absorbed, just like the Americans. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Ohio, isnt exactly a target either, i mean shit, what does ohio have?

I do think it is intresting tho, that only you 2 have replied tho.
and the funnier thing is that the government has now let it be known that there were earlier warnings, but they ignored them.
But now they are startingto take warnings more seriously.

Speaking for me personally I have to say the attack on the U.S. didn't surprise me at all, it was shocking but the way the U.S. has been handling international affairs has been a thorn in the eye of people everywhere for decades. It was bound to happen at some point, especially since the U.S. was assuming no one would attack them.. No offence, but you were sitting ducks.

I'm glad now the American public has taken a wider interest in international affairs because it ensures that the U.S. government can't do whatever the hell it wants outside of the U.S. anymore.

hehe...Manga...whatever the US does wont matter to the world...we are dammed if we do something and dammed if we dont do anything. Perfect example is the protests in Europe with Bush visiting at the moment. No matter what some people will agree what we are doing and some people think we are evil incarnat...which is fine with me.
Personaly, in terms of foreign policy I think the we in the US are handling things better than we have in the past which was containment rather than dealing with the problem head on. Trying to mince words with insane racists (some of the Israelies (bad spelling) and suicidal fools (some of the Palestinians) is like playing with a lighted stick of dynamite in your hand...its only a matter of time before you go *boom*.
In terms of home policy though, Bush will forever know as the man who blately sold favors for money [img]wink.gif[/img] Enron and fellow "Energy" companies included.

ok who's fucking with the red color?

everything looked good on here till that damn red color started blaring at everything.


I aggree with the sitting duck remark, and i do hope that 9/11 has humbled america a bit.

I also aggree with the damned if we do, damned if we dont remark also, but i think that america put itself in that predicament, simply because it has to be so damned nosy.

I think, and this is only my opinion mind you, but i think one of the things that stung most about 9/11 was the fact that america got smacked in the face, unexpectedly.

9/11/01 has made me more aware of international conflicts and how these conflicts eventually effect everyone.

I've definitely lost a sense of safety. America is no longer this place no one attacks.

I'm following politics more closely now.

I agree that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't but the U.S. does only meddle in countries they have a direct interest in. No one has an interes in Tibet, so no one does shit for Tibet, which is also why the U.S. did nothing for Afghanistan after leaving it in the hands of the Taliban.. Untill that plan backfired.

No one has a solution for Israel and the Palestinians.. They should probably just bomb the shit out that area and start over. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I hear the Cheyenne is now #2 on the top ten list for targets in a nuclear war.
There are 50 "PEACEKEEPER" (*makes jerking off motion*) missiles around Cheyenne. That alone is enough to destroy the world.

War is a fucking bitch.

Two Points that alot of people miss when they say that the US should stay out of the worlds business.

1) The United States did this after World War I and you know what happened? The world (especialy Europe with its Global Domination bent) with no American help created the worst nightmare possiable....the Nazi Reich. Without the US Europe, Asia, and Africa might very well be living in the hell the Nazi's created to this day.
2) Big hint, the Russians had the US not interfered wordwide would have not have put up with any liberties since that interfers with the "People's Will".

Yes the US has sacrificed more lives of innocents worldwide than I like to think about, but to many of us in the US its the simple answear of "If we dont interfer who will?" Not the U.N. which is a collosal joke and needs the US military firepower to enforce international law. Not the European Union which has finaly succeded in which many would be Emperors failed...Uniting Europe under the control of those in power.

Wouldn't it be kinda dumb to nuke a place where there are enough nukes to take out the world? I mean.. that would kinda not help who ever would nuke that place either.

I personally don't think any country is dumb enough to start a nuclear war with the U.S., if they do you know the U.S. will take a big chunk out of the planet where that country or whoever it was used to be.

On some news satire show they made a joke on how the U.S. and Russia are going to dismantle their nukes (al though the U.S. is only semi- dismantling them) to a point where they still could destroy the world 10 times over.

Great fun! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

aa i rember what happeened that day. I was in history class and we had the radio going. But the thing that is realy memorable about that is that we were all cheering and everyon in teh schol was talking about Becoming tterrorists of some kind. Then we found out about osama and then because of all teh media propaganda and stuff everyon changed thare minds about what happened and no body rembers that they were chearing and routing for the terrorists. Its kind of funney how that worked out

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DarkLord:
Two Points that alot of people miss when they say that the US should stay out of the worlds business.

1) The United States did this after World War I and you know what happened? The world (especialy Europe with its Global Domination bent) with no American help created the worst nightmare possiable....the Nazi Reich. Without the US Europe, Asia, and Africa might very well be living in the hell the Nazi's created to this day.

again, damned if we do, damned if we dont. Thats not to say tho that this would not have happened if, America would have minded its own buisness with the gulf war, or when afghanastan was fighting russia. The last one i do believe was/is a major reasoning for OBA hating america like he does.

2) Big hint, the Russians had the US not interfered wordwide would have not have put up with any liberties since that interfers with the "People's Will".

Yes the US has sacrificed more lives of innocents worldwide than I like to think about, but to many of us in the US its the simple answear of "If we dont interfer who will?" Not the U.N. which is a collosal joke and needs the US military firepower to enforce international law. Not the European Union which has finaly succeded in which many would be Emperors failed...Uniting Europe under the control of those in power.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

but you are missing the point, Why should America interfere? Why should anyone? Hell its like America sees a fight in the middle east (afghanastan/russia), and they say, well we wont interfere, but here afghanastan, heres all the weapons that you need, and here is what you do to fight them. We still interfere, it might be indirectly, but ut us still interference. Its no wonder that the loser of aformentioned fight starts to resent america after awhile, granted russia is/was now our ally's, but still.


As for the U.N., they sit back and tell israel to just deal with pakistan and all of their suicide bombers, yet when israel tells the U.N. to fuck off and that they declare war, how long before we take an active step in that skirmish?

There's actually a theory that if the U.S. hadn't interfered with the first World War the 2nd would've never happened.

Normally after a war that big all countries involved are left weak, because of interference of the U.S. only Germany was left weak which left it more succeptable to the ideas of Hitler.

I understand that the U.S. is the only super power in the world and indeed was the only counterpower to the Soviet Union, but the U.S. is very picky in it's interference. The U.S. wouldn't have given shit about Irak hadn't Kuwait been one of the main providers of oil. They left the people of Afghanistan to the Talbian regime because they didn't really care who was in power there as long as it wasn't the U.S. who'd prevent them from making an oil line there. The U.S. has never interfered in China's continues violation of human rights because it does business with China.

I'm not saying there are any better options, I know the U.N. is a fucking joke. I'm just saying that the interference of the U.S. isn't all that good, they leave as soon as they've found someone who they can do business with even if they're people who don't even let women go outside on their own or have medical care of any sort.

Imagine being very poor, seeing people kill your family.. The U.S. comes in, you think they want to help you, you know from t.v. that Americans are very wealthy.. But then they band together with the same people who won't let your sister go outside and who killed your brother, they even leave them in government.

The U.S. is all about quick easy solutions to their own financial problems, they have no regards for human lives.

I respect interference of the U.S. in some cases in the past but since the 2nd World War I haven't seen any interference but solely selfish ones. And even the U.S. was a selfish effort, they knew what was happening to the Jews and did nothing untill after Pearl Harbor so it wasn't like they did it for the sake of humanity.

Had Al Qaida not attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon women in Afghanistan still wouldn't be allowed outside without their husband and there is no way you can deny that.

I admit, at least the U.S. does something but it is never to the benefit of the people in the region but more so to the benefit of the economy of the U.S.

Whooo hooo!!! someone who thinks! Unfourtunatly you are right Manga on alot of details, epecially about US intervention. But two details for your info. After Veitnam (a war that we DID have a reason to be in...just not a damm good one) the US public lost all intrest in protatced low level war unless we at under attack. Hence the US governments inability to anything more than a wham bam thank you ma'am. Second is that US politicians are very beholdin to various business intrests and trade usually works best in "stable" regions...hence the US governments support for "stable" dictatorships..good example is our favorite "Royal" Arab Allies....nevermind the fact they ARE THE ONES who are inciting hate against the US to avoid themselves looking bad. And this is also why many are terrified that the US will now come gunning for them since now we have a President that will tell the whole world to go "fuck off" if it suits him. The only thing stoping Bushy Boy Jr. from going on a middle east asskicking spree is the fact that as long as the Palestineians and Israiles continue to fight then any attack from the US on arab country will be seen as a attack on all. In many ways Afghanestian only become a battleground is because a Islamic nation (pakastan) decided to help us.
End result? We are selfish egotistical bastards who weirdly enough dont want pycho manufacturing plants to continue running since every pyscho that comes off the assembly line wants to kill Americans becuase he or she has been told that ALL their problems where caused by Americans and that the Americans must die. Strange that Self preservation thing.

you guys ever notice how when you hit reply, and it brings up the reply screen, when you scroll down to the previous messages/posts that they are al out of whack?

and darklord..ahhh another patriot till the end.

you ever think that maybe one way to stop the pyscho plant is to leave it alone? let it fester, let it kill itself, surely the cycle of hate that it is involved in will burn itself out. Now im not talking about not defending our soil, but merely suggesting a passive form of defense.an example, we stopped the bully from smacking our cheek, but need we smack him back?

Or anpther suggestion would be to NOT trade or give any weapons of our own to other countries, nothing more convincing to hate america, than looking out on a war torn country and seeing all kinds of bombs/weapons/bullets all marked with the proud red,white, and blue of the good ole U.S. of A.

but yeah isnt self preservation a bitch?

yeah america has never done anything to make the pyscho factory hate us or anything (jerking off motion)


As for laughing at the deaths of innocents, well for the jumpers that "fell" 60 stories? damn i wished i could find a pic of that, i could use another avatar. sadly tho i missed it on tv, but i would have LMAO, because you see, those were jumpers, they committed suicide, and any weak person that does that needs to be laffed at, because that is pathetic.

As for being stupid, hell thats a difference of opinion. i think that anyone that would go and label someone stupid just because they dont have the same view/opinion of someone else, no matter what it is, i think that is the very description of stupidity itself.

But then again, i dont expect you to read this, and i figure you will prolly run from this topic with your tail between your legs like you did last time, before you left. [img]wink.gif[/img] i understand

Your right on a few things and dead wrong on many others. And running is against my nature, letting a conversation drop with a complete moron..that is much easier.

I hope you are joking Pred, anyone who can just sit there and cheer when people are being crushed, incinerated, falling 60 stories to their death, or throats slit open for a new happy smile..then its definatly time for some chlorine in the gene pool, cause there are some stupid people out there and they love proving it.

ok so we know this..mods need to change the reply/quote thing, cause light grey on a white background does not work.

as for your remark to predator darklord, why do you say that?
what is he stupid because he laughed? Is he stupid because he doesnt/didnt share your morals?

Do you really need to even ask that? ok let me get this straight for the record. Laughing at the death of inocents is stupid. STUPID. Remind me when anyone who laughed when those people died at the WTC die themselves. I need to visit their grave and take a piss on it for I can show them the respect that they show'd their fellow human beings.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DarkLord:
But two details for your info. After Veitnam (a war that we DID have a reason to be in...just not a damm good one) the US public lost all intrest in protatced low level war unless we at under attack. Hence the US governments inability to anything more than a wham bam thank you ma'am.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's so foreign to me that the U.S. public has taken so little interest in outside politics, especially for a country that always 'meddles' in foreign affairs.

I also think that's why the U.S. has been able to do all these things, I think had U.S. citizens taken in interest in foreign affairs they might not let have your government get away with leaving Afghanistan under Taliban rule.

It's probably hard for Americans to care however, since yours is such a large country where enough news worthy stuff happens on a daily basis and who has it's own internal issues. It's probably also hard to care since you're government seems so bent on altering facts and making things into media events (for example when the U.S. invaded Somalia they did it at 2 o'clock in the morning local time, because that was prime time on t.v. in the U.S.).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">..good example is our favorite "Royal" Arab Allies....nevermind the fact they ARE THE ONES who are inciting hate against the US to avoid themselves looking bad. And this is also why many are terrified that the US will now come gunning for them since now we have a President that will tell the whole world to go "fuck off" if it suits him. The only thing stoping Bushy Boy Jr. from going on a middle east asskicking spree is the fact that as long as the Palestineians and Israiles continue to fight then any attack from the US on arab country will be seen as a attack on all.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're wrong there, the U.S. won't attack Arab nations because they know they are very dependent upon them. How? Without Middle Eastern oil the Western world is fucked, it's that simple.

Apart from that the Palestinians don't have a country that is attackable, they've been in refugee camps forever and even Bush (or rather the people who tell Bush what to do, I find it highly unlikely that anyone would let that man make any decisions on his own, see Attack of the Pretzel) seems to grasp the concept that there is no easy quick solution to the problems in Israel.

I think the problem with Bush is that he's the first American president who is dumb (and thus honest) enough to not handle the powerful situation the U.S. is in with any respect. I think America has always been aware that they are the only super power left and that they control a lot of what goes on in the world, it's not like any of us have the power to stand up to the U.S., it can do what it wants. But other presidents have been more careful and a lot more respectful towards this concept then Bush seems able to be.

I'm glad to see the WTC might actually turn out to be his downfall.
Anyway, it is nice to have some inteligent discourse on the topic for a change, I'm glad you're not one to think in absolutes either. The whole situation just isn't as simple as a lot of people want to make it out to be.

Well i have to say yea serously everyon in the building was chearing. I meen its bad that people were dieing but thats not what ane one was thinking. Everyon was thinking about how some one was standing up to the US goverment. Come on were only human i meen people hear what thay want ot some times.. No one is perfect but i meen the usa is the most powerfull country in the world thay got allot of money. So i meen everyon was chearing that some one was fightign the giant. No one is happy that peopel died just im saying that at the moment and the day of the attack this is what was happening up here.

yeah like you have never run from here before huh dicklord?

But then again, if i am wrong on some counts, then correct them for me. I mean you can do that cant you? surely in your self rightous attitude you could corrct a moron?

go ahead and run, err i mean let it drop, cause the simple fact is, the conversation will go on with or without you.


As for foreign politics, why should the public care? we all know that the history books are written by the winners, and that the american govt will lie to the public if it suits them.

and pred man, i know what your saying, but alot of the patriots dont want to hear that, they just want to go on believing that america never acts like a bully. *jerking off motion*

so darklord.... you flying a flag now?

or are you letting this drop?
since i am a complete moron you know you have to draw me a picture.

can you say cop out?

how do you spell cop out?

d-i-c-k-l-o-r-d


its kinda funny dicklord, you want to be someone on this board that is so high and mighty, with your rock hard political beliefs, your arrogant pride, and your tiny knowledge of everything, yet truthfully, you wont ever be shit on this board.

hell as much as i razz on vampiro, he is still more of an influence on this board than you will ever be. We all know the reason you came here, and the reason you left and came back. She isnt shit on this board either. Face it bub, as much as you want the people of this board to despise me, they dont.

My opinions might not be the best, but at least i back them up every step of the way.You want to act like a bad ass, and "drop a conversation with a moron", go for it, cause we all know that your just running away from another conversation.

Fuck your just like a toddzi, well not really, they at least back up their beliefs, whereas you run from them.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Manga:


I think you're wrong there, the U.S. won't attack Arab nations because they know they are very dependent upon them. How? Without Middle Eastern oil the Western world is fucked, it's that simple.

Apart from that the Palestinians don't have a country that is attackable, they've been in refugee camps forever and even Bush (or rather the people who tell Bush what to do, I find it highly unlikely that anyone would let that man make any decisions on his own, see Attack of the Pretzel) seems to grasp the concept that there is no easy quick solution to the problems in Israel.

I think the problem with Bush is that he's the first American president who is dumb (and thus honest) enough to not handle the powerful situation the U.S. is in with any respect. I think America has always been aware that they are the only super power left and that they control a lot of what goes on in the world, it's not like any of us have the power to stand up to the U.S., it can do what it wants. But other presidents have been more careful and a lot more respectful towards this concept then Bush seems able to be.

I'm glad to see the WTC might actually turn out to be his downfall.
Anyway, it is nice to have some intelligent discourse on the topic for a change, I'm glad you're not one to think in absolutes either. The whole situation just isn't as simple as a lot of people want to make it out to be.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some excellent points, Manga. The general American attitude to ignore international happenings has always concerned me (I've been guilty of it myself). Most media coverage here seriously lacks stories that are international. Hell, one local station here prides itself on its local coverage, the fact that most of its news stories are on what happened in the city, with barely a blip about the rest of the country or world.

The US has done positive things with its foriegn policy and a lot of negative things. The problem, of course, is that the US does what it thinks is in its best interest. Too many countries think that way. The only way to work towards real peace and no more terrorists is for all countries to start thinking globally and do what's right for everyone.

damn we still need to get the reply colors fixed