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Have any you sc'ed guys had a chance to drive a turbocharged integra or any thing turbocharged? I'm not impressed at all with the supercharger too many problems sure you have too buy a lot of things for a turbo vehicle but the out come is substancial(in most cases) it seems the name of the game for (most jr chargers is beating or figuring how not to detinate.) I know all forced induction rides are concerned with detination but you guys, it seems to be a never ending story, no offense to you guys jus my opinion.
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We just don't like to rebuild our engines every year like you turbo guys!
Greg
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Turbo guys seem to take engine problems more as part of the dues you have to pay. I don't know any turbo people, myself included (Ihave superturbo), who complain about breaking parts. The supercharger crowd is for the most part more conservative and most pay more attention to details than the turbo-heads.
Not trying to stir things up either.
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Here we go again...the argument between turbos and superchargers....there are pro's and con's to both setups....and as far as having to re-build your motor every year I disagree...as with any FI there is added wear and stress on the motor....if setup right the motor should last the same for all setups...and as time goes most people will do upgrades to there setups...such as upping the boost...if you are really that serious about racing....you need to build the bottom end of the motor anyway!!!..I keep seing people here mentioning that they did a 14 second run at the track....and that they were on street tires...yada..yada...I really dont see how someone can celebrate that they did a 14 after spending all that money on a JRSC...I have a friend that does high 13's in a all motor Teg...that has a full interior and tnat is street legal and driven every day to school and work....If you are serious about racing...instead of upgrading to an 8lb pulley....get a damn pair of slicks and some suspension work first!!...most of the people here on the board dont realize this but an Integra with a 6lb JRSC and bolt ons and slicks with a full interior is capable of running a low 13 pass with a good driver...it has been done!!...with a 8lb pulley...and good tuning...you should net a high 12...that where im not impressed!!...think about that for a while??
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John
Hey what you got in there??(In a redneck voice)
Oh just a Intake, Header and Exhaust http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
B18C1 powered Civic EX Coupe
'92 Civic VX Hatch...being prepared for MAD BOOST!
[This message has been edited by CivicR (edited May 16, 2000).]
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I used to have a '90 Talon AWD before my civic. I definitely like the SC better...mainly for the reliability factor. My talon had problems out the kazoo. Although, I must admit that the power gains and flexibility of the turbo were a plus. Since I'm tight on cash reliability is my number one priority. My SC has been giving me bulletproof performance for awhile now and it's everything I expected it to be.
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Fred G.
'97 Civic EX supercharged http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/track/4059
Beech 1900D driver...2,558 shp, 10,000+ ft./lbs. tq., top speed 331 mph :)
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Have I driven turbocharged cars? Well...Yeah. I had a turbo 280ZX and more recently I'd take my friend's 3000GT around the block on occasion. (Dedicated driver and all) I looked at turbos and the SC before I took the plunge and it was all a matter of comprimise. At the time there was no CARB certified turbo kit for the 'Teg. Do I regret getting an SC? For the way that I drive, not a bit!
Every solution is going to have it's problem, strengthe and weaknesses. That's life.
Sean
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- Atomic 'Teg -
Blown '99 Milano Red GSR, IceMan CAI
DC Sports 4-1 Header, ES torque mounts
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I got both and I like both. They each do a good job and when you combine them, you can have the best of both worlds and everyone is your friend. Except all motor guys.
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ive gone for many rides in turbo'd cars....300z, couple of rx-7's, supra's....but there is one big difference...they came from the factory WITH a turbo....that is the only way i would do a turbo to the car....is if it came with one...
even though.....a well built motor then turbo's is the SH!ZNOT....but then again...who the hell wants ot buy a new car then rip out the motor and rebuild it...
I love my supercharger....smoked many turbo cars that had the same things done to them....but like they say....there is always a bigger fish in the pond...
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1996 GSR 4dr....221 hp with a 6psi JRSC
Heres how I pay for all my goodies
POWER
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I never understood turbo guys that think nothing in the world is better than turbo. Some of the guys I hang out with have a '91 GSX and a 300ZX, and they are always criticizing Honda's and superchargers. Between turbo's and superchargers, who really cares? They are different means of power to obtain different goals.
Nobody's going to argue that if you want the fastest integra around, you have to go turbo. But I suspect most people on this board want the most reliable power out of their car. After all, we all chose to buy Honda's, and people buy Honda's because of their exemplary engineering and reliability.
I'm lead to believe that turbo people, I don't want to say all turbo people but many, have a very different mentality than the rest of us. I don't think "they" understand that not everyone has the same goals for their car.
For those of you that are serious draggers and are at the track regularly to extract the absolute maximum from their car, then hell yeah, they should go turbo and I'll be in the stands cheering them on. But when some of them say that they don't understand why anyone would go with the SC, I'm reminded of all those Christian fanatics that stand in the middle of a campus proclaiming that everyone that's not Christian is doomed to a sinful life.
I've ridden in a turbo integra and yeah, it was amazingly fast. But would I want to convert my car into something that required as much maintenance as that car? No way.
And if the next guy would like a car like that, more power to him.
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1995 Integra GSR
JR Supercharger (6 psi), HO fuel pump, RS*R Header, Thermal R&D Exhaust, Iceman Intake, Neuspeed Front Tower Bar, Type-R Rear Swaybar, Short Shifter, ST 1.3" drop springs
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For the record, it's every two years between blown engines. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif At least for me. And as people already said, there's no substantial differences in reliability between the various F/I apps. I've said it before. Some people have a knack for blowing sh!t up. I'm sure if I had a S/C instead, I'd have the same reckless track record. http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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GReddy turbo'd and intercooled D16Z6. Currently blown.
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My cousin has a Slyvia engine in his 240, and I hate the turbo lag. Other than that the thing is FAST. I'm in the process of installing my JRSC so I really can't speak for both sides.
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Hey guys, I just wanted to get a response, on how you guys feel about superchargers, guys I know were often complaining about sc'ers, maybe they were expecting something different, like the road ripping power jackson uses in his ads! Thanks for the feed back guys I didn't want to step on any toes or feelings, jus wanted to know how you guys felt about the subject. Maybe I posed my topic wrong, http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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I've had both, a turbo charged Miata and a S/C Miata. Look at them in http://manuelp.home.mindspring.com/miatas.html. I've got a box full of JRSC http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif in front of my desk. It's going in my GSR in 2 weeks. I did not buy a turbo kit for it.
I don't want to go into details but you can infer your own ideas as to what I like http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
Manuel
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I think everyone knows what I like....
I have turbo on my brain... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/eek.gif
*sigh*... If only I could have about 10 Integras... Turbo GSR, SC GSR, Turbo LS, Turbo Type-R, SC 4-dr LS, etc, etc, etc.... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Mark - Darth Boost - Turbo Mafia
98 Pearl Black GS-R, DRAG Gen. 3 Turbo
13.2 at 114MPH (GTech/Pro w/Drag Radials)
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well if you had 10 integs all puching 10psi ... you'd be the first guy in history to push 100psi boost ... and still be able to keep the hair on his head !!!
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i LOVE my supercharger.....6psi.....for now
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1996 GSR 4dr....221 hp with a 6psi JRSC
Heres how I pay for all my goodies
POWER
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I think all s/c users know that to extract the most power, we all should have gone turbo, but what you guys don't know is the reasons why we chose s/c instead of turbo. When going FI, I'm sure everyone considered a turbo also. I chose the s/c because I didn't want to worry have my incessant need for more power. Turning up the boost with a turbo is just too damn easy. I'm only 19, I bought my car at 17, and I don't have the money to rebuild my motor once it blows. I know I can still blow it on a s/c, but at 6psi with correct precautions, it's highly unlikely. Simple as that, I had the money for a turbo, but the Drag Gen II was not all that great, and FMAX wanted 3600 installed for their unit. I chose the s/c because it was cheaper, got it for 2200 back in Oct 98, and its given me no problems since then. I've never had the chance to race a turbo GSR, but no doubt I'd probably lose unless we went from a rolling stop and didn't top out. My goal was to go out and beat an M3, and its happened 3 times now, so I'm satisfied. i also thought that it would be slightly more exclusive to go with a s/c because everybody and their momma back then was going turbo or already had one. I also didn't want to ditch the intake and header I had already bought, so that's what it comes down to.
Jon
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97 GSR, JRSC...of course, Walbro fuel pump, RSR Header, Tanabe G power Medallion, AEM Intake, 17" Advan RG's w/P7000, MSD BTM, CRV Crank Pulleyy(Soon), J&S(sold)
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I'm gonna have to agree with Mark on this one. Why debate which one to have, when you can have it all?.... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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99' GSR 13.6 @ 103.4mph
-JRSC w/ Walbro Fuel Pump, AEM Intake, Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust, Mugen Header, Ground Control Coilovers/ Koni Adjustable Shocks, and Wings West Body Kit
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It always comes down to this:
HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO? HOW MUCH MONEY ARE YOU WILLING TO SPEND?
Going FI is like having a tit job. Once it is done you always want more.
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00 Naples Gold 3.2TL
N/A with 225 H.P. and 216 Torque at the flywheel
All stock and staying that way
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I don't want to start anything either, but 2,500 and 14 sec time slips? It's seems as if the charger has a few bugs to work out, but has a great concept. I have a custom kit and sure I've had my share of problems and probably someone elses' share too, at times I admit i wanted to sell everything and buy a daewoo:P, but then the supercharged crew rolled om scene and posed a slight threat to turbo-world, but no real threat, but then again they weren't tuned either. So in conclusion, when I see a supercharged integra or civic even a neon, I will be impressed, as far as the hard racing aspect but as for the daily driver looking for a LIIIIITTTTLLLLLEEEE, little extra power then I understand. Even in that case i'd use a 50 shot http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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I probably would have gone either/or. But i'm an impulsive buyer. Supercharger was on the brain so i got one. Now if that day, Turbo was on the brain, I probably would have ordered one. I would love to get to drive one or even ride in a Turbo GSR. Any takers???... http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
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99' GSR 13.6 @ 103.4mph
-JRSC w/ Walbro Fuel Pump, AEM Intake, Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust, Mugen Header, Ground Control Coilovers/ Koni Adjustable Shocks, and Wings West Body Kit
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Just to clarify my own position: My first reply to this thread was a poorly reasoned jab at turbo's. I was trying to respond sarcasticly to the poorly reasoned jab at superchargers that started the thread.
FWIW, I would go turbo instead of SC if I did it all over again, but I would definitely "sweat the small stuff" just like the current crop of SC folks are.
And one more thing... 6psi JRSC on a GSR at 8 degrees timing = no detonation. Detonation only comes into play when upping the boost, timing or both. 1.6L engines DO have more problems with detonation, though.
Turbo, SC, NO2... It's all Good!
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Greg Holden
96 GSR, JSRC, I/H/E, yada yada yada...
My JRSC Install Site
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rebuild engines every year, huh ?
got my for two years and if I blow it now I got my moneys worth out of it <knock on wood> the $hit lasts me another season ...
I can't front, 15psi on the street and many 24psi runs ont he dyno and afew 18psi at the track ...
Greg
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94 Civic FROG
435HP/289 lb-ft. torque.
11 Second Club.
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Hay SSBP, I saw this one tit job story where they give the lady a valve (We'll just call it a blow off valve http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) and she could change the size (PSI http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) like 3 times and then she had to decide what size she wanted them at (Kinda like a SC http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) and then leave them http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Well I lov emy SC teg and even though I am stuck at 8psi I am happy. I have raced one Turbo GSR on the street and won and this weekend I will be going head to head with a another Turbo LS and we will see what happens. So long as I can go fast and it drives reliably (very reliably so far) every day I will be happy. I too looked into FMAX kits b4 the JRSC but hey, I hate leaving my car with anybody to work on and I knew that I have a far better chance at working on the SC car then the turbo so that is why I went with the blower. To each their own, but who really cares? WE ALL HAVE THE ABILITY TO DUST OF RUSTANGS AND THAT IS WHAT COUNTS http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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98 GS-scR w/ 8psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Airmass header, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S safeguard, Ground Controls and KYB AGX's, and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down and soon to go on a Carbon Fiber diet,RC 310 steriods,and new sticky foot wear of the 555R type
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I talked to a Jackson Racing rep. @ the last Battle and when I asked him what a stock teg with just the SC could run, he couldn't answer me. He even asked another rep. and they both couldn't give me a straight answer. Why is that? Were they ashamed of the 1/4 mile times? All I wanted was a ballpark figure. I thought that was pretty funny.
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DRAG...
Power is everything
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Well I have to say that I would be even more disapointed if it had of been me but I think we can contribute their lack of knowledge to the fact that they don't *Use" any of JR products. They probably have never been to a track, and they def. haven't visited us here on the board. I do know that if you were to ask a Moss motors (the people who do the actual distributing and leg work) they can tell you anything you want to know. I think it is kinda like telemarketing, but worse because these guys are selling a performance product that needs to performa to sell and they don't even know how it performes. Well even though they didn't know didley, it still doesn't take way from the functionality of the setup. We (informed e-users) probably know more then most of the salesman out there but that comes from us *All (turbo included) sharing what we know. REAL WORLD KNOWLEDGE http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif
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98 GS-scR w/ 8psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Airmass header, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S safeguard, Ground Controls and KYB AGX's, and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down and soon to go on a Carbon Fiber diet,RC 310 steriods,and new sticky foot wear of the 555R type
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Allright.....(sigh)
I resent these sophmoric thinly veiled attacks on this system. It has been proven that the kit can make 255-260 flywheel hp. It takes smarts and tuning to get that number.
I had friends that had turbo kits from 2 years ago when I got my charger. 1 Fmax 1 custom turbo kit and 1 Drag2... They all made fun of my car.
All thier cars lasted 25 thousand miles or less. None of them ran last time I checked. I've seen street rev hard guys break axels at the track.
And I drive home.... And I've been driving home for now 112 thousand miles on my car with compression checking in at over 200 per cylinder.
I've been running the charger now for around 40 thousand miles. Hell I even talked with TOO yesterday wondering when my engine will die, so I can plan for the next project.
I think I will try turbo soon and then I can make a real judgement call as to what I prefer.
But I leave with this.... What fun is it to go turbo and have to rebuild the motor (2 or 3 thousand dollars at least) after say 25 thouasand miles? I mean hell are all of you guys living with your parents?
But I do want to see how the turbo side lives.... I bet it's fun as hell.
And Greg love ya man (really) but I doubt you put 40 thousand miles on your motor in 2 yrs street/track time.
And as for the all-motor argument, you guys know that Skunk2 car? it weighs like 1600 lbs! Thats completely unreasonable in a street application. Grow up little young ignorant people. Plus it's displacement has been increased to something ike 2l or even 2.2l.
Geez stop with all the hating already...
MTRS
[This message has been edited by MTRS the 1st (edited May 18, 2000).]
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almost forgot, YOU DON'T HAVE A TURBO!!!!!!!!!!, and don't put my business in the streets!, and I just voiced my opinion about superchargers, and got a response, so chill out, AS of matter of, I sold you my header AND EXHAUST, SNAKE!
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Turbo'd GSR and Arturbo, we have all run on the same track repeatedly, I know I personaly have over 100 time slips, but Turbo'd GSR, comparing apples with apples, If I remember correctly, you ran a 13.8 once. Granted, I ran a 14.0 once also, had I not launched @ 7000 rpm, my 101 mph would have been an easy 13.xx To say you're not impressed is one thing, but to have facts to support it is another. *run what you brung*
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Damn you guys http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/eek.gif Take that fussing and b*tching to the street or anywhere but here. I thought we are all adults here so stop the bickering over who's girlfriend bought what (will she buy mine? http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/wink.gif) Let's get back to cars.
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98 GS-scR w/ 8psi JRSC, Walbro HO fuel pump, AEM cai, Airmass header, Thermal Exhaust, Skunk Works cam gears, J&S safeguard, Ground Controls and KYB AGX's, and of course to slow down, KVR X-drill F&R rotors and Carbon Kevlar pads and V1 to signal the slowing down and soon to go on a Carbon Fiber diet,RC 310 steriods,and new sticky foot wear of the 555R type
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Ok, I'm just going to start out by saying that I own neither an SC nor a turbo. I do, however, do a lot of reading and I think that entitles me to an opinion. High powered SC's CAN be reliable. High powered turbo's CAN be reliable. Even nitrous CAN be reliable. No matter what the power adder, the important thing is that you plan your build up, don't beat on your car, and for god's sake TUNE YOUR CAR! Like I said earlier, I'm not a pro but I'd be willing to bet that 99% of blown motors whether SC, Turbo, or NOS were either 1)lacking a critical component (bigger injectors, timing control, quality parts, etc.) or 2) were not tuned properly or 3) were beat to shit.
All I'm saying is this: There are plenty of turbo hondas that are fast and healthy. There are plenty of SC hondas that are as fast as or faster than their turbo counterparts. I assure you these setups don't happen by accident. They are all the result of planning and tuning.
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93 B18C Civic Coupe
Boosted in spirit
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Amen Brother!!!!!!!!!!
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Jasper Hortillano
http://www.tclracing.com
[email protected]
[email protected]
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MTRS the 1st:
[B]Allright.....(sigh)
And Greg love ya man (really) but I doubt you put 40 thousand miles on your motor in 2 yrs street/track time.
"I guarentee you he abuses his car more then anyone else on this board. he is not light on that car...especially at 460whp. point being he didn't put 40k on...but he put more then 40k worth of abuse on it."
And as for the all-motor argument, you guys know that Skunk2 car? it weighs like 1600 lbs! Thats completely unreasonable in a street application. Grow up little young ignorant people. Plus it's displacement has been increased to something ike 2l or even 2.2l.
and i've run [email protected] in my NA 1.8 ltr integra at 2610lbs. so?
Geez stop with all the hating already...
MTRS
agreed
Jeff
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Lip
94' GSR-R?, 13.20 @ 102.83mph. 12's in da Spring or bust...i can smell it now!!
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JRSCGSR i have seen you before and i think i also raced you and didn't you back down!
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Hi Lip,
Dude you're not listening, I have some measure of DURABILITY and LONGEVITY compared to his very nice ride. I am aware he has abused his car more, this I know. I have had friends with turbo'd Civics before, but my friend didn't like to drive it every day, instead he chose a regular commuter car. I have had MORE trouble free miles and that definetlety counts in a street car.
All motor argument? Geez aren't you the guy that got a Mugen ECU from a friend for like 400 bucks, and all your other parts for like 40 cents on the dollar?
Your all motor God bless ya man, you don't have to convince me what a great bargin hunter you MAY be. Although I love your times and respect true driving skill like yours.
Lip love ya man, but (shakes his head....) you know what nevermind dude...
Mac.
[This message has been edited by MTRS the 1st (edited May 23, 2000).]
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MTRS the 1st:
[B]Hi Lip,
Dude you're not listening, I have some measure of DURABILITY and LONGEVITY compared to his very nice ride. So what if he has abused it more, this I know. But I have had MORE trouble free miles and that definetlety counts in a street car.
"i agree...but do you think your durable to take 22-23psi? if he were to run 6-8psi....he could do it for many many miles. i think i just questioned his application to yours isn't fair...and both are admirable. yup....40k is going well for the SC in my opinion...but is this common?
All motor argument? Geez aren't you the guy that got a Mugen ECU from a friend for like 400 bucks
i'm running a stock 94-95gsr ecu with only rev limit changed...uhhh..not me
, and all your other parts for like 40 cents on the dollar?
oh...yeah...that's me.
Your all motor God bless ya man, you don't have to convince me what a great bargin hunter or potential liar you may be.
"lets just leave it that you said bargain hunter...i work for a living, married with child as of one month ago...pinch my pennies and i'll be on ESPN2 on i believe June 1st where i won the NIRA event in the NA class easily. point being...i'm actually an up and up family oriented fun loving racer that doesn't need to lie."
Although I love your times and respect true driving skill like yours.
"well thank you. that's a nice thing to say."
Lip love ya man, but (shakes his head....) you know what nevermind dude...
"oh...ok"
E mail me if ya want.
"why?
love you too"
later
Jeff
PS....what can you tell me about in tank pumps? i might be looking for one to replace the itr one.
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Lip
94' GSR-R?, 13.20 @ 102.83mph. 12's in da Spring or bust...i can smell it now!!
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I'll just stay out of this one ... thanks for the props Lip... err, Mr. $0.40c on the $1.
Your car seems faster than some of the JRSC Integras, but not sure why that would matter ... j/k ... I guess those Toda cams have their own kind of forced induction capabilities.
And for the record, I do drive the car almost each day, I do get stuck in traffic for 2.5 hrs in the POS Holland Tunnel and I do knwo what it takes to have a dependable ride. As for my mileage since turbo rebuild, ~26K miles ... so no, it's not 40K miles. Total mileage on motor before rebuils was 55K miles.
Greg.
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94 Civic FROG
435HP/289 lb-ft. torque.
11 Second Club.
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Hi Lip!
If your gonna quote me, at least quote what I myself edited before you reply back. As far as 40k miles on the SC application being common, yes I think it can be. I just happen to be the first person with the kit on a gsr, so hell for all the fuss over how much JRSC suck, I'm still around and the car still makes great power at 112k miles. I suppose in some ways I'll end up being the long term case study.
As far as your aqusition of parts for your car, I would venture to say "is this common?" I think not. Oh and since you wanna be cute with phrasings like "uhh...not me" and "oh ...yeah...thats me." and...
"oh...ok"
To my sincere offering of: "E mail if you want" you replied:
"Why?"
"Later
Jeff"
PS. Oh and about those fuel pumps, sheesh I almost forgot!
"Uh...why?"
Mac
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BTW: I wont respond to any more posts here. I hate such long threads that get so.... "sarcastic"
yeah thats it. :^)
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The Import Avenger...hehe
[This message has been edited by MTRS the 1st (edited May 24, 2000).]
