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I need volunteers to help me with a diagnostic problem. In order to help, your car must be B18C1 powered (Integra GSR or Hybrid car with said engine), a JR Supercharger, Walbro GSS-342 fuel pump (255lph HO) and must have a B&M Command Flo fuel pressure riser...
Here is the problem:
In testing the Cartech/Venom fuel resolution, I have been unable to lower my static fuel pressure below 40-42psi !!! I bypassed the Cartech to see if this was the problem... no joy. I swapped in another B&M FPR thinking my original was faulty... still no joy. I then adjusted the fuel pressure in Roguesol's car down to 25psi (so I know his OE regulator and B&M FPR combination works properly), removed the whole package and installed it on my car... STILL 42psi !!! I then thought that I might have a problem with my fuel return line... an obstruction, kink, etc. I replaced it with a new 1/4" line... I still have 42psi !!!
Here is what I need from you guys:
Do this simple test, and let me know what your minimum static pressures are... either by calling me at the shop (205) 798-0112 or posting yor findings to this thread.
Here is the test:
Disconnect the 1/4" fuel line end at the OE fuel pressure regulator. Then disconnect the 1/4" fuel line end at the OE fuel return hard-line (this is found at the base of the firewall on the drivers' side below the master cylinder). Now, run a new 1/4" fuel line between the OE regulator and OE fuel return hard-line, thus bypassing the JR FMU. Secure both ends with hose clamps. Start the car and run until it is at operating temp. Now, remove the vaccuum line from the OE regulator and notate the fuel pressure (This is so that you may return to this setting later). With the vaccuum line still unplugged but capped (place your finger over the end, or stick a bolt in it), begin turning the brass adjustment screw counterclockwise (out) until you cannot turn it further (be gentle, it is brass and it can break if forced). Note this fuel pressure (This is the number I am looking for !!!)
Now, do the above steps in the reverse order to return your car to normal.
Thank you for your help.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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I use the big Bosch pump (in-line) beside the tank on my cars and I can crank the fuel pressure down to less than 15 pounds easily with the Vortech super regulators I use.
I do know that Endyn milled the inside of the fuel rails and the end adaptors for the line out, as they are pretty restrictive. They also remachined the ends of the fittings to open up more area and to prevent masking the orifices. Attention to detail is their deal.
Perhaps this restriction is your problem?? I know they didn't do all that work for nothing.
My original system used the JR and B&M regulators. Endyn opened up the fuel passages in the JR regualtors and narrowsed the tapered valve seat, and the fuel pressure I've alsways been able to get was as low as I wanted and the set-up worked fine with 370 cc injectors. It had about 19 psi fuel pressure at idle.
Now, that I've stepped up the boost to over 17 psi, the idle fuel pressureis at 15 psi with 450 cc injectors and the Vortech regulator, so the engine idles like stock.
If you're measuring fuel pressure prior to the outlet on the rail...I'll bet the outlet is the problem.
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Beaver, care to share your power output right now or 1/4 mile times? http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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Silvino Orozco http://www.geocities.com/silvino_orozco 221HP/161TQ at the wheels - corrected)
'97 Integra GS-R (13 degrees timing) w/JRSC (8 PSI), DC 4-2-1 Ceramic Headers, Walboro 255lph High pressure fuel pump , AEM Cold air intake, Powerstop rotors/Axxis Metal Master brake pads, A'PEXi Dunk Exhaust, J&S Safeguard unit,NeuSpeed rear Swaybar, Eibach Springs, Clutch Masters Stage III clutch (not in dyno run), AEM cam gears (installing soon), Energy Suspension motor mounts (not in dyno run), MSD 6BTM (set to .5 timing removed per lbs of boost..not in dyno run), MSD Blaster Coil SS (not in dyno run)
[This message has been edited by Silvino (edited March 19, 2000).]
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Anyone have the setup Jim is looking for?? I worked with him this weekend trying to diagnose the issue at hand but we really need guys who have the setup as Jim detailed above.
Thanks,
Will
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Is the screw your talking about on the OE regulator? Never paid that much attention to it. If so (or if not let me know) I'll give it a shot for you tomorrow.
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'96 JRSC GSR Sedan (Black Currant Pearl)
AEM CAI / PMS
J&S Safeguard / Walbro HO Pump
DC Strut Braces Skunkworks Rear Swaybar
H&R OE Sports Billstein HD's
(8psi pulley on deck)
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Jim, I have the set up but as I told you before...I'm on 10hr shifts right now...I'm off Weds. If I remember correctly, Mine did the same as yours until a few days later when the pressure "settled" down to around 30psi. I have no idea why this happened. I gave up on the B&M for now. I'll try it Weds if you still need the help.
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1998' 4dr GSR, 8psi JRSC w/hand ported plenum, Walbro HP fuel pump, valves set to .005i/.006e, MSD BTM, B&M CommandFlo regulator(working it out), stock intake w/resinator cut off at fenderwell for "cool air", Greddy sp exhaust, Tokico Illumina 5-ways, Neuspeed springs(sux!), Skunkworks 22mm rear swaybar, ES motor mounts and front swaybar bushings, Yokohama AVS 205/50/15's, Metal Master brake pads(KVR Carbon Fibre pads sitting on work bench) ,B&M fuel pressure gauge, Autometer sport comp A/F gauge in dimmer location...
and awaiting my YLW 00' ITR due in late March!!!
Honest officer, I had no idea how fast I was going...the speedometer only gos to 150...
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Sorry, dont have one.
Let us know what you figure out on this.
I've got a Vortech fuel rail on backorder from summit but I wouldn't doubt some restriction in the OE rail.
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I took the fuel line off the rail last night and hooked it directly into the return line with a brass T in the middle. From the T, I ran the hose to my fuel pressure sender (Autometer).
I hooked a positive wire to the fuel pump that would just keep the pump running, so I was just circulating the gas.
The pressure I read was only 3 psi, so there's not that much restriction in the return line, if you ask me, but you didn't.
As for dyno and quarter times, etc. I have no idea what they'd be and since I can pretty much runover most cars I meet on the streets, I'm not concerned. If I found out what it'd really do, perhaps I wouldn't enjoy the cars so much.
Point is, I do enjoy the cars and as long as I do, I'm not looking for more, yet!
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Jim, when I was playing with my CarTech and CommandFlo, I had the same results, and couldn't lower more than 42 psi also.
I didn't work hard to lower it more than that, because I would see a lot of midrange detionation with the stock injectors with pressure that low, and the fuel pressure wouldn't rise fast enough.... which may be my pump.
What injectors are you using with this setup?
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Beaver... so you are saying that without a rail or any type of FPR, the fuel pressure in your car is 3 psi ??? How much is it if you pinch the return line closed ???
Turismo... I have a STR rail on the car now. It made a small difference, like one... maybe two psi lower.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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Lund... Venom 320cc pintle type.
BTW, do you have a std. 255lph pump or a HO 255lph pump (That's GSS-317 or GSS-342) ???
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
[This message has been edited by JRCivic (edited March 20, 2000).]
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Zeus... Wednesday is better than NEVER. I sure could use your input.
Turismo... The adjustment screw that I referred to is only found on the B&M Command flo (which is essentially an adjustable "top" for the OE regulator) or the new Vortech unit. If you do not have either of these, it is OK... your heart was in the right place. If you do... well do the test and hit me with your findings PRONTO !!!
Thanks again to all.
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'93 Civic Si H/B with B18C1, JRSC @ 8psi
Best 1320: 12.68 at 110 mph
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When it pegged my Autometer, I looked around in my Dad's stuff and found an old Stewart Warner pressure gauge. I don't know what the original application was. It looks like it should be in a real old cobra or something with a big steering wheel!
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One thought I had Jim, was I used, and you may have also, the JR brass fitings from the JR unit. These are smaller, and maybe too restrictive to lower pressures down. One would have to get larger tubing for the fittings that came on the cartech. The JR ones may be to restrictive.
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We bypassed the JR regulator all together. Still stayed at 40-42 psi. Any other thoughts guys??
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13.24 on a smokin' motor can't be bad!?!
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Are you sure the restriction isn't in the fuel rail? Try doing a straight plumb to the return. That's the only way that you'll find out where the bottle neck is.
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Well we replaced the factory fuel rail with a new STR fuel rail this saturday. It dropped the pressure about 1-2 psi at most.
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13.24 on a smokin' motor can't be bad!?!
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Did you try to replace the vacuum lines with the shortest possible length? Sometimes the lines are weak or soft and crush from the vacuum and restrict the line. If the regulator doesn't see full vacuum at idle, it won't give you a true reading.
Can't hurt vacuum line is cheap..
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If the restriction is the return line, you should try the direct hook up just to see. I don't have a situation like that at all on these cars. Ones a 95 GSR and the other is a 98 R Type with a lot of rework. Maybe newer cars are different?
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Maybe I'm thinking wrong here but if the using the Cartech by itself wont let you lower your pressure as low as you desire wont you still have the same problem as with the JR unit?
Wont the lowest pressure obtainable be determined by the most restrictive part in line?
Did you hook a straight line to the return (no regulator) to see the lowest possible pressure?
Maybe it's the volume the HO pump puts out vs. line size and the stock pump's capability.
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'96 JRSC GSR Sedan (Black Currant Pearl)
AEM CAI / PMS
J&S Safeguard / Walbro HO Pump
DC Strut Braces Skunkworks Rear Swaybar
H&R OE Sports Billstein HD's
(8psi pulley on deck)
[This message has been edited by Turismo (edited March 20, 2000).]
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If I plug the access to the return line, I get 180 psi before the pump stops. The pump must have a pressure cut-off valve and it shuts itself off.
Most recently, I just ran the pump through the fuel rail without the regulator back to the return line and the pressure is still at 3 psi, so the rail isn't a restriction beyond my earlier test without it.
Maybe these Bosch pumps don't put out enough pressure to make the fuel pressure as high as you guys are seeing with the high pressure version of the Walbro?
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What kind of gauge do you have that reads to 180 psi? Just curious.
Will
